Some quick questions to diesel Mechanics, Drivers, and Gurus..

**Blackducati750** · 07.29.2012

Was the 14L Series 60 Detroit Diesel ever offered as a non-emission engine? (No EGR?)
If so, what year?

Were all 12.7L Series 60 Detroit Diesel engines non-emission/EGR?

Is the N14 Cummins a non-emission/EGR engine?
Are there any "typical" engine problems related to the N14 Cummins?
If so, what are they, and how serious?

Finally, of the above engines, which do you think is the best, and why?

Thanks to everyone who help in my quest for answers!

**Cowpie1** · 07.29.2012

There were some early 14L that were offered with DDEC IV and non-EGR. They are pretty rare.

No, there are EGR equipped 12.7's around. They are even still offered in some special applications like fire fighting vehicles and such.

Yes, the N-14's were all pre-EGR.

I have a preference for both the pre-egr Detroit 12.7's and the N-14. They are both really good engines. I just put a factory remanned pre-EGR 500 hp 12.7 in a glider truck I just purchased. My last N-14 I took to 1.4 m miles with no mechanical issues except one injector and an accessory drive seal. It still got 7 mpg average and used about a gallon of oil every 7-8000 miles. Both engines have their little quirks, but both the 12.7 and the N-14 are solid reliable engines for the most part. As with everything, one can occasionally run into a lemon.

It is really hard to quantify which engine, 12.7 or N-14, is "best". They each have good qualities. They each can be modified to be something that was never intended by the OEM. The Detroits, over their life cycle, probably will be easier and cheaper to maintain compared to the N-14. Parts are everywhere and cheap, and they are very easy to work on. Cummins tends to take a lot of pride in their parts and likes to price them accordingly. The Cummins tend to edge out the Detroits in torque, and the engine brakes on Cummins are hard to beat on any engine. But when modified right, I have seen some Detroits even put kitty cats and Cummins to shame on a pull.

It really comes down to personal preference. Some like a green engine, some do not. When talking about a 12.7 or an N-14, it is like trying to quantify whether Fords or Chevys are better. It comes down to individual desires.

**Shaggy76** · 07.29.2012

If you get a lemon N14, it's usually injector problems. Detroit lemons are usually valves. Both are good engines. Detroits are cheaper to work on because there were more of them made than N14 so parts are everywhere.

**ynot** · 07.29.2012

Don't forget about N14's and main bearing block fretting. Becoming more and more prevalent. As in one out of four at 500HP over 1 million miles. Worth a Google if not familiar. JMHO

**NWMAXI** · 07.29.2012

if you pulling heavy detroits are worthless

**Cowpie1** · 07.30.2012

Originally Posted by NWMAXI

if you pulling heavy detroits are worthless

Don't tell that direct to Erich at Serious Series 60 www.ss60pd.com "Making The World Greener, One Truck At a Time"

**NWMAXI** · 07.30.2012

yeah sure they can make a detroit run like a cat does from the factory if they are both performanced tuned the cat will still win....

**blanco** · 07.30.2012

IMHO, n14 are superior in field repairs. I mean, fixing stuff to get back home for proper repairs. Heads, 3 of them, so you can get 1 fixed and keep rolling. Instead of paying for a whole head as for S60.

Injectors, I can change one out in under 1 hr for n14. Enough to get home and get our mechanic to do a proper overhead.

N14 no bull gear issues like S60. Detroit over 1million must be inspected.