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  1. #1
    Medium Load Member WallyGator's Avatar
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    Questions about Detroit 60 series

    I finally found a truck i like but its got a series 60 in it..im a cat man at heart but might give this a shot.here are some of my questions..
    1- the motor has 700,000 miles on it .how long do they last?
    2- will the 470HP be as strong as a cat of same HP?
    3- are they really as good on fuel as people say..
    4- what do you think about WAL-MART trucks-maintance etc
    5- what are there weak points vs strong points?

    Thanks for any replys in advance
    Walt

  2. #2
    "Village Idiot" dancnoone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WallyGator View Post
    I finally found a truck i like but its got a series 60 in it..im a cat man at heart but might give this a shot.here are some of my questions..
    1- the motor has 700,000 miles on it .how long do they last?
    About that long, less if it's a large fleet truck.

    Quote Originally Posted by WallyGator View Post
    2- will the 470HP be as strong as a cat of same HP?
    No it won't. Unless it's got a DD15 in it.

    Quote Originally Posted by WallyGator View Post
    3- are they really as good on fuel as people say..
    I won't say it doesn't. But, I've never been able to get it. I've always gotten 6.5 and higher in a Cat or Cummins. Around 6 or less in a Detroit.

    Quote Originally Posted by WallyGator View Post
    4- what do you think about WAL-MART trucks-maintance etc
    I would buy one of theirs, before I bought anyone else's.
    Quote Originally Posted by WallyGator View Post
    5- what are there weak points vs strong points?
    Strong point -- Service bays located everywhere.
    Weak Point -- You'll need every one of them.

    Many a Detroit has spun a lower bearing due to "low" idle speeds. So you bump it up when idling. The newer ones are much better though.

  3. #3
    Road Train Member 550hpW900L's Avatar
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    I have seen them go over a million if taken care of, they do get good millage but they are no power house, especially a 12.7. The good thing about 470 Detroits is the non wastegated turbo, it will be laggier but more top end and better millage due to that. Thing to watch with them is the cam and the cam followers, the rollers use to be porcelin and would crack. My advice is to run the overhead every year and you will be ok... Way better engine than any cummins ever built. No offense to any cummins guys, just my opinion.

  4. #4
    In Tune Working Class Patriot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 550hpW900L View Post
    I have seen them go over a million if taken care of, they do get good millage but they are no power house, especially a 12.7. The good thing about 470 Detroits is the non wastegated turbo, it will be laggier but more top end and better millage due to that. Thing to watch with them is the cam and the cam followers, the rollers use to be porcelin and would crack. My advice is to run the overhead every year and you will be ok... Way better engine than any cummins ever built. No offense to any cummins guys, just my opinion.

    I have a N14 550 hp Red-top in the KW never had a problem pulling out of a hole. My Pete has a Series 60 GK 470. I actually like it better than the Cummins because it's a little better on the fuel.

  5. #5
    Road Train Member 550hpW900L's Avatar
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    My dad had a N14 525hp, which is what yours should be they dont go to 550, and it was a nightmare of a motor couldnt make money with it when fuel was under $1. At 600k it just died, head gasket blew on it and he ran it back empty from phoenix. Also by that time it was burning 3 gallons of oil per trip (4500 miles) Oil cooler went bad, had to reseal the front cover 3 times, had issues with belt alignment, fuel bridges between head, oil pan cracked, numerous sensors, people say that cummins parts are cheap. Go price a oil psi sensor for a N14 and then go price one for a CAT you will be surprised, the oil psi is also a joke achhhhhhhh dont remind me! It did pull good, i will give it that the son ##### had power.

  6. #6
    In Tune Working Class Patriot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 550hpW900L View Post
    My dad had a N14 525hp, which is what yours should be they dont go to 550, and it was a nightmare of a motor couldnt make money with it when fuel was under $1. At 600k it just died, head gasket blew on it and he ran it back empty from phoenix. Also by that time it was burning 3 gallons of oil per trip (4500 miles) Oil cooler went bad, had to reseal the front cover 3 times, had issues with belt alignment, fuel bridges between head, oil pan cracked, numerous sensors, people say that cummins parts are cheap. Go price a oil psi sensor for a N14 and then go price one for a CAT you will be surprised, the oil psi is also a joke achhhhhhhh dont remind me! It did pull good, i will give it that the son ##### had power.

    In-frame done at 648K. It puts out 1800 lbs of torque and as far as the HP it is stamped on the block as a 550 and confirmed on the dyno by my shop. It doesn't burn any more oil than normal. I hear tell from several O/Os that the N14 was discontinued because it was too good. Maybe your dad had a stinker...it happens.

  7. #7
    Road Train Member 550hpW900L's Avatar
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    Well most of them, no scratch that 90% of them all have the same symptoms. It shouldnt be a 550, the max factory power level on em was 525hp. I had to do all the work on that motor and it was no fun.... They are strong though, i wouldnt exactly say easy to work on either, i say 3406E or series 60 is way easier. What did yours dyno? One we had did 478whp, so right on par. Oh also its rated at 1850ft-lbs.

    Sorry for the hijack OP.

  8. #8
    In Tune Working Class Patriot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 550hpW900L View Post
    Well most of them, no scratch that 90% of them all have the same symptoms. It shouldnt be a 550, the max factory power level on em was 525hp. I had to do all the work on that motor and it was no fun.... They are strong though, i wouldnt exactly say easy to work on either, i say 3406E or series 60 is way easier. What did yours dyno? One we had did 478whp, so right on par. Oh also its rated at 1850ft-lbs.

    Sorry for the hijack OP.
    Well when I first bought the KW in 2004, Tim Flagsted from Crown Trucks said it dyno-ed something like 470 but yeah, and you could be right about the Hp though, there is a double mark on the tag, but it sure looks like 550 looking at it.

    Hell, I bought the KW as a dump truck and not to drag race the truck anyhow. All I know is loaded going up the Cajon, Kellog, and Big Pines Hwy I only have to drop it down to 8th. That's only bad thing about that truck, it only has a 9 speed. Should have been a 13 at least, if not an 18

    Changing belts is a ^$%#$%^&^$#^*%*#$%# if you know what I mean. The N14 takes up a lot space so I rarely get away with anything less then bruised or burnt knuckles, even with gloves.

  9. #9
    In Tune Working Class Patriot's Avatar
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    This is interesting:http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_a_red_top_n14_cummins

    What is a red top n14 cummins?


    The "red top" refers to the red valve covers, used on N14 Cummins engines, factory set at 460 or more horsepower. It was used to indicate a "high horsepower" engine. Lower horsepower engines had black valve covers. In the later 1990s, the 435 horsepower settings also got red ones.

  10. #10
    Road Train Member stranger's Avatar
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    The HP of the 12.7 Detroit doesn't make as much difference as the torque setting. Most are set at 1350-1450 ft.lbs.

    If you have a 1550 ft.lb. rated transmission and driveline, then the software can be upgraded to 1550 ft.lbs. and you will tell a huge difference in the engine.

    One thing different about the power between the 12.7 (DEDC III & IV) Detroit and a Cat, the Detroit will fall on its face from 1450 rpm on down. From 1500 to 1650 you will have the most HP and torque combo. With the engine you are looking at having 470 HP, you should have good pulling all the way up to 1800.

    1,000,000 miles should be attainable easy if you have a good engine that has not been abused. The front bull gear will sometimes go out, but a regular oil analysis will tell you if something is going on. The assessory drive bearings will usually go after 600k, but this is easy, and realitively cheap to fix.

    As with any engine, fuel mileage is good if driven right, better than Cat and Cummins in most cases. My KW had a 12.7 with 375-450 HP setting, and 1550 ft.lbs. torque. The 450 HP setting would only kick in when using the cruise. I never needed the higher HP. I ran at the lower end of the best HP/torque band. My truck had the mileage display in the dash, which I calibrated to make it almost exactly what the calculator would come up with.

    I still have the mileage and gallons divided out to the third decimel in MPG for every fillup from the day I bought the truck until I sold it. I got better mileage at 71 MPH than 66. I checked it too many times. I could watch the dash indicator start going up as soon as I hit 70.

    I was specked with 22.5 low profile tires, 3.70 rears, super 10 transmission, and the 12.7, 370-450,HP, 1550 torque engine. I ran with an almost identical truck pulling the same load in very hilly country. The only difference is his KW had a 435-E Cat. Same tires, transmission and rears, and he could not stay in sight of me. So if a Detroit is set right and driven right, they are good engines.

    One thing you can do to help low end greatly, if you can't set your engine to 1550 torque, is to get someone to plug into your ECM and set the injector response time on all injectors at .75. This will wake up a Detroit, especially an 11.1 engine.

    You can take an 11.1, set the ECM to 400 HP, calibrate the injector response to .75, and drill out the fuel restrictor at the back of the head to no larger that .090, and it will run with most trucks on all but the biggest of hills, and still get around 7 mpg or better.

    I hope this helps some.

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