C.R. England has just received another slap in the face. As part of the ongoing saga of the OOIDA v. C.R. England lawsuit, a judge has just issued what essentially amounts to a “stop-whining-and-pay-the-fine” order.
In 2007, OOIDA won the massive case against the huge mega-carrier when Judge Ted Stewart ruled that C.R. England had violated federal Truth-in-Leasing regulations by improperly managing thousands of truckers’ escrow accounts. Since the judge ordered that every single penny be accounted for, the task of figuring out how much is owed to the individual members of the class action suit has only just been completed.
In their typical thoughtful way of doing things, C.R. England issued several requests to the court including a petition that would have caused drivers to have to prove “detrimental reliance” in order to recover their escrow funds. Basically, C.R. England only wanted to pay what was owed if drivers went through the process of individually proving that they really, really needed the money. In fact, according to David Cohen of The Cullen Law Firm, OOIDA’s litigation counsel, C.R. England filed objections to virtually all of the rulings of the magistrate judge.
No dice, CRE, sorry. On Feb. 11th, U.S. District Court Judge Ted Stewart denied every single one of CRE’s objections and motions with only one exception; they no longer had to pay an interest rate of 18% on the funds they held, it was downgraded to the standard 91-day treasury bill rate. It was a small concession that he ruled on because the 18 percent interest rate was, as he put it, punitive instead of compensatory.
So, CRE, you’ve lost the ruling, taken about five years to do the math, submitted motions to reconsider for just about everything, lost every appeal along the way, and now –finally– a judge has basically told you to just shut up and pay up. The whole trucking industry wants to know… how long is it going to take you to pay?
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Source: landline
J. Carter says
I’ll never forget the day that I signed up for C.R.England’s lease. They were giving away XM Radios as an incentive to lease one of their trucks.
While I and other drivers who were signing up were receiving the incentive, one of the England brothers showed up. He was in an immaculately tailored suit, and spoke to all of us as if we were under-educated idiots who OBVIOUSLY thought we were getting something special in the XM Radios. He even had us do a photo shoot holding up our new radios.
I leased one of their new Volvos. This was back in 2004. I kept the truck 2 months, turning it and never looking back.
It was so easy to see their lease was a scam. They had all kinds of services you could sign up for, all of which could be used for a simple deduction from your settlements.
After I did a 5500-mile week (I had a trainee on the truck) but got paid only $1100 for it, I took the truck to Salt Lake, left it there and never looked back.
The people who own and run C.R.England are the Take-Advantage-of-the-System-to-Enrich-Themselves crooks. They hire brigades of lawyers to find every possible loophole, then turn around and try to convince all of their employees that the shams they’re giving them, are top-of-the-industry pay packages and everybody should be ecstatic with how beneficent C.R.England is to its employees!
I hope this ruling bankrupts the mega carrier. Companies like C.R.England gives our industry a bad name. Taken out and tossed out into the street like the crooked crooks they are.
tony says
Hi Driver! I have a question how do i join in sueing this cr england, i leased a truck and i was given low mile and i was never home. as i diebetic i had to see my doctor once a month i missed all my appointments. pls advice how i can get intouch with the lawyers. thx
bill says
i would look into a violation of AMA or disabled americans, but am no lawyer.
robert normand says
wow its about time. i worked for cr england for a year and a half until i finally had a heart attack and lost everything. they are nothing more than a bunch of lying thugs who steal from every person they come in contact with. i hope there is a special kind of hell that whole family will end up going to when they kick it. they deserve every bit of pain they get!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Barbara Booker says
Couldn’t agree more. My husband worked for them for a 6 month lease. We knew they were crooks but he hadn’t driven in over 20 years and needed to get recent experince before someone else would hire him. Won’t go into the multiple problems we had with them but the topper was at the end of the lease we had over $8000 in our account. We managed to get $700 back by fighting them for months over double charges for repairs, charges for another truck, etc, etc. As it was ended up paying for ‘damages’ to the truck that were there when we got it. I had listed them all on the sheet when we took possesion but neglected to take pictures. We ended up paying them for the priviledge of driving for them. Only good thing was we had some great tax decductions for our losses.
Darren cromwell says
Im happy to see that CRE is recieving its just deserts, I was lucky enough to hear about how shady ther were in 2010 and decided to sign on with Swift! Ya I know! I quit after 11 months, there being sued also for ripping off drivere on there miles. Im part of that suit and am hopefull that justice will once again be served. There huge companies think they can do what ever they want and get away with it hiding under there corperate umbrella! I hope a good kick in the wallet will show them thet they cant! Im looking forward to the ruling against SWIFT!!!
Erik says
Just to let you know, the England family is related to the family that started Swift.
Sandy says
Not true. One of the 2nd generation england brothers left CR England and started PRIDE. I hear they’re a pretty good company to work for, actually. I am a current office employee of CR England. They don’t treat office employees much better than you drivers, believe me. There is pressure to not take lunches, clock out and eat at your desk, and work off the clock. They give you an impossible work load to handle and offer low pay with a bonus, but make it IMPOSSIBLE to get your bonus. The pressure is huge. I woke up at 5:00am on a Saturday thinking about work (as usual every day), knowing in my gut something big is going on. I watched 4 people get escorted out of the building in 3 weeks (today is 3/25/27). Then I find this website talking about the lawsuit won just last month. Definitely an “aha” moment. Listen, to all of you truck drivers out there- you have hard jobs and hard lifestyles, and people don’t give you the respect you deserve. After reading so many abhorrent stories about your experiences with CR England, I’m personally glad you won the lawsuit. Guess I better be looking for a new job. Good luck to all of you.
Hillary Rockwell says
I did a lease with them back in 2007 and i had a brandnew 2008 international and with 30 thousand miles on it had a exhaust leak in the cab and failing breaks when i called and told my DM he told me to roll my window down and drive slower. he wanted me to finish the run before i got it fixed but i didnt i turned him in to my safety manager and he sent me to a TA
Ralph says
CR England, CRST, and a bunch of others should be closed down. I see & hear what these drivers make and it appalls me. I saw one company in California that takes advantage of guys by using men with felony convictions and telling them what a huge favor they are doing them, and paying teams .25 split. Yes .25 split. How does these CEO’s sleep at night?
Michael seagram says
Don’t ask why the Trucking industry is in desperate need of Drivers!!
I’m in Canada and the industry is also in need of drivers but cost cutting measures on the backs of drivers has left drivers with Low Moral and that exceeds any cost cutting by companies !!
Terry says
So typical of trucking companies to swindle employees for the company’s benefit. Judge Ted Stewart for president!
Terry says
What is most surprising is that in a company the size of c.r. england that there was not one “out of touch wingnut driver” who after learning he had been swindled gone down to the office and castrate the grand poohbahs
California Runner says
Not so surprising when you realize that in order for a driver to even get in to see his Driver Manager (dispatcher) or Safety Manager he has to go through a security checkpoint including a metal detector and is escorted by armed security the entire time. Forget about getting anywhere near a grand poobah, it aint happening.
Brad says
As a werner driver for a year + I learned that the OTR industry had been reduced to corporate greed, with CRE leading the way. The several drivers I talked to out there from CRE were taking about how good of a deal they were getting and how they were allowed to have 2 trainees on the truck at one time. I literally felt sorry for them and I was driving for werner!! I tried to explain how they were getting screwed over, but they just wouldn’t listen. So sad that corporations take advantage of dumb people. Thanks for the truthful report!!
art pull says
well basically the reason for a driver shortage are two things. The drivers of today are not of the quality of yester year….When i started back in the early 70s, we didn’t have power steering, radios were a luxury heat was also a luxury and so on….If the truck we drove hit 60 mph we were lucky…You get the picture. Drivers of today are all trained in a school, that barely does the job. all these drivers need a GPS or computer to make it. automatics are the rule of the day and so on…Second reason is the BU##SH## factor. most companies don’t pay for work done…First and last drop not paid for. companies that pay layover pay may give you $50 a day. time to customer is calculated as if nothing will go wrong. plus when the weather isn’t good for driving, drivers are dispatched. That way these companies can tell the customer, its in route. basically the industry is poorly run, with poorly trained drivers……I invite any different opinions
Thriteen says
I’m really surprised that hasn’t anyone mentioned the two biggest crooks in the Transportation Industry: JB Hunt and Prime! I worked for JB for one year and got ripped off!
They started off by promising me 39 cpm as an OTR Driver with a guaranteed 2700 miles per week. Here the trick, they have so many variables the control your earning. They use them to their disposal. For example; the trucks are governed at 62 mph, which deducted an average of two hour off your work day. Computers on trucks reduces drive time which equate to lower wages. Dock time; a driver must wait two hours before he or she can began to get paid for detention pay. Usually the shipper or receiver makes the cutoff time and the drivers get paid nothing for waiting. The company,shipper and receiver all gets paid. Most of JB Hunt OTR Account requires dock-time! Also there are x amount of trailers that reserved for OTR Drivers. I was route to Charlotte, NC by weekend -dispatcher to give my load to a driver who need to get home for weekend. After giving him my loaded trailer; I had to find a empty one in order to get another load. It was a Friday afternoon when I gave the driver my load; it took me until monday afternoon to get another empty. My Monday thru Friday Dispatcher was angry because I sat the entire weekend. Weekend-dispatcher usually takes advantage of OTR Drivers. There was enough of dedicated and containers trailers. but no OTR trailers. My 39 cpm soon became 32 cpm. JB Hunt are real “Slickes boys”.
I should start a class action suit against JB Hunt for breech of contract. I signed a paper to make 39 cpm and was only getting 32 cpm or less depends on which tick they were using!!!
Sandy says
You are absolutely correct on all counts.
Michael Blanche says
First of all, there is no driver shortage. Ask yourself: “At the end of each day, how many loads are left sitting on the dock for lack of a carrier and driver to pick it up?” If your answer is about zero, then you know how many drivers the industry is short.
Secondly, CR England has been known as a scam for a long time. I dare say they make more off their leases than they do off hauling freight.
Thirdly, every driver makes stupid mistakes. Today’s drivers are no worse (and no better) than those in the industry when I started 35 years ago. The only difference is that every Swift and JB Hunt joke you hear today, I heard 35 years ago about Roadway drivers.
Dennis O says
We can all speculate on the reason for the “qualified”driver shortage,although the reasons stated above are legitimate,but Canada,for instance,has gone to “employment agencies”for their drivers because a lot of companies just don’t want full time,qualified drivers with benefits,when you can go a cheaper route! But here in America,it’s a different story.When those in “power” in Washington,DC and all the state governments can B-S all their constituents,and I’m talking hundreds of millions of people,into believing “their”doing a good job,and you know better,then how hard do you think it is for a trucking company,who may have from a few,to maybe a few thousand,to tell their workers times are tough and we have to cut back starting with your wage and benefit package,so we can compete,and then later on you hear the CEO’s or owners either help themselves to a big bonus or big home,or new plane,—you get the idea.Of those who want to work,why take a trucking job and all it doesn’t have to offer when they can go to ITT or some such school,learn a “trade”,and be home every night?Nothing is what it used to be,for better or worse.The question now is how do we make sense of the present situation going forward and make the biggest buck for our bang?
JDcrash says
Well its about time someone steps in and makes these companies pay something. Swift isn,t too far behind this company. Pay the dam drivers what they should and there is no shortage of drivers.
Lbcdiesel says
Ok art pull..and I’m sure when u first started driving in the 70s you were the super t. Rucker of the industry right? You knew every single route in the US like the back of your hand…I resent that remark that the new drivers of today are not as good as you all were in the 70s I think they are far and few between…but i know that their are plenty of drivers out there that match or exceed your skills in their first year, this is a new era of people that work hard for pennies compared to what you made in the 70s just to put food on the table for their families and to keep a roof over their head, how dare you, these new drivers have heart, unlike you, the problem today is no older experienced driver is trying to give pointers or tips to any of these new drivers, left out in the dark, laughed at and shunned, it is enevitable, we will be the new generation of drivers, time for you to step down from your throne, I respect all older experienced drivers, until you give some disrespectful opinions like that…
Lonnie Roberts says
I would say as a new driver I have to agree with lbcdiesel, with some exceptions. I have met and talked to some “old timers” that we’re more then happy to help. I have spent hundreds of miles at one time talking to a driver on the CB. But it seems they at few and far between. So many would rather sit and laugh at ya on the radio cause your having a bad night!
Jim Morris says
I recently got my CDL in the hopes of going into trucking since there is no longer any future in the warehouse industry because it’s been literally turned into a labor mill for illegal mexicans. I got my CDL out of desperation because I’m now in my 50’s and since forklift drivers wages went from 20 dollars an hour to 8 dollars an hour by using temp agency workers, I needed to make a change for what I thought was the better. It was totally a waste of time and money to pay for CDL training. No one will hire you unless you go over the road and from all the things that I’ve read about over the road trucking, there is not one single trucking company nowadays that will even come close to paying you for the hours you are putting in and the risks you take, especially in the northern states during the winter. The trucking industry is totally broken and now that Obama is giving amnesty to illegal mexicans, you can forget making any money in Trucking. The same thing will happen to it that happened to warehousing. Driver wages (as pitiful as they are now) will become even worse. I have seen ads for CDL big rig drivers that pay 8 dollars an hour…yes, I said 8 dollars an hour! And guess what else?….You must be bilingual to even get the job. Need I say more? I suggest everyone get out of trucking or better yet, buy a trailer and a dually pickup and do hotshot runs and work for yourself. There are plenty of online freight boards like u-ship where you can bid on your own loads. Screw the trucking companies.
David S. says
Like yourself, I’m also 50 and am currently in possession of a Class A license, which I obtained through Road Master in Jacksonville FL. I signed up for the school and completed 160 hours of training per the state requirement. I too have found out that no company will hire a recent grad that is a reputable company, only the companies that have been given a license to cheat hard working people. I’m in the transportation industry right now but doesn’t require a CDL license. Prior to my current job I was a Cargo Adjuster for a large insurance carrier and am well aware of C.R. England and Swift Transportation. Before that I served in the U.S. Navy for over 20 years and retired with an Honorable Discharge.
I’m begining to believe these truck driving schools are also somewhat of a scam and could possilby getting kick-backs, because if I would of known before starting the school that the only companies that will actually hire a recent grad would be a corrupt company, I wouldn’t have wasted my time. Don’t get me wrong I did learn alot about driving a big rig, and am confident that I would be successful if given the chance. Just like everything else, you have to crawl before you walk. I could go on an on about what I observed while going through my training and silently questioned the legitimacy of the school. The Florida DMV had no problem taking my money for the driver’s permit and the CDL. One last comment is that after speaking with a few, what I feel are good strong trucking companies, the insurance industry is putting the restrictions on companies to hire experienced drivers. Although I haven’t given up completely I’m going to try and figure out how one can actually utilize a license that one pays thousands of dollars to obtain.
mike c says
I entered this industry in ’07 through one of those schools. I’ve changed employers a few times since then, but I’ve always stayed a company driver. Ive never had to shovel my money back to the company and if I wasn’t happy, I could leave.
Akboss says
I drove for England.
Went to their “school” got my CDL and went out on the road with the trainer.
I already knew by the end of the first month that the lease was noting but a scam.
The second trainer confirmed that.
I was his first student and up until that time he hadnt turned a dime in profit in the 6 months he had his truck.
When it came time to “lease” I went company instead. Doing so made sure I got next to no miles, stuck in the Illinois to Missouri loop.
I will say one thing, England sure tries hard to get you to lease. Even though they say repeatedly that they have nothing to do with Horizon.
K Long says
All these huge trucking companies (CR England, Swift, JB Hunt, Prime) are nothing but driver eating machines! They chew you up and spit you out, grinding out every last penny they can. Any of the big companies that offer lease to own purchases are a rip off. I hear some guys say they are paying upwards of 800.00 per week for their trucks! These companies are making a clear 3000.00 +/- profit on those trucks, because the trucking company already paid off the truck. This is staggering! How can drivers make any money for themselves? We leased to own our own truck thru Lone Mtn. and had great success. Our payments were 1150.00 a month (not a week), and our credit was none too skippy. I think anytime a court can take one of these life sucking monster companies to the carpet they should! And drivers beware of flashy trucks offered with no money down and recruiters with fake smiles and condescending attitudes. This article references mismanagement of escrow funds, so I’m not sure lease purchase was really the issue but nonetheless they are tricksters.
Katie says
AMEN to that!!!
nappy roots says
Amen to that k l
mike c says
I entered this industry in ’07 through one of those schools. I’ve changed employers a few times since then, but I’ve always stayed a company driver. Ive never had to shovel my money back to the company and if I wasn’t happy, I could leave. The most dangerous truckers on the road today are the ones who have been driving all their lives and haven’t taken a refresher course. All they know is what they believe is right and they don’t recognize that in 25 years or more, traffic has changed, safety practices have changed, vehicle operators have change. Look at how safety now includes the drivers health. How about following distance and the lane of least resistance. I’m guessing new driver back then didn’t hear much about this. The biggest problem we have with trucking today is not the drivers, its the infrastructure that supports it. The industry is rapidly advancing and the roads, laws, and regulations are slow to catch up. I already know when I’m tailgated by another trucker, its going to be one of those that’s been driving so long that he missed the memo. But hey, I’m still new to this. I’ve got a lot still to learn.
Bryan says
Never ever get your truck at the same place you get your loads. These nefarious companies have figured out a truck will make more money by being sold over and over again than it will rolling down the highway. I agree that a driver shortage is nonexistent. There is a shortage of decent paying jobs ,and honest,reputable companies.
Michael Moulds says
I can’t wait until they catch up with Central Refrigerated. They literally ruined my life. I’m divorced, on meds and fighting the IRS from what they did to me. My heart goes out to everyone taken advantage of by these slime. No wonder the country is going to hell in a hand basket. Stop thinking of your corporation, and start thinking about each other.
Dan M says
I agree with most of the notes written here. The CRST company is truly a scum bag operation. The judge who fined them was absolutely right. I just wished he would have fined them FAR more! Once in a while the crooks get caught and have to pay for their actions. This is truly a good day knowing they will finely pay for their deliberate dishonest actions.
JJ says
Finally Someone who can Think for himself, Instead of wanting Big Govt or OOIDA to come in and make The World all Safe for them, I sympathies we People who get Scammed into these Lease’s, But they read the paper worked and signed it, If it sound to good to True it usually is a scam!
Bernard says
I think you will agree the reason why you still have loads left on docks has nothing to do with driver shortage but the pay drivers especially o/o get for hauling the load. So basically you aretalking about two different situations.
mike says
I drove for a bit in the nineties liked it ok not enough to keep it up. Then tried it under the new rules of service in the 2004. the new rules sucked so bad It became painful, I quit and now will just move equipment around. and inspect drivers equipment for safety when questioned for violations.
hottrod says
That’s right, Art. Back in the early 70’s when I started OTR, you really had to want to drive truck, the pay and benefits were great with a decent company. After 5 years experience, in 1978 I started working for Schneider Transport when they were union. I made $32,000 a year, and that was as a junior driver requesting to be home every weekend. Could have made $40,000 if I had not been home every weekend. The senior drivers made about $45,000/yr. With full benefits and retirement through teamsters. That would be equal today to a company driver making $100,000 to $120,000 per year! But back then, if you were to do stupid stuff like I see other truck drivers do now on the road you would be instantly fired by the company. That’s how you get good drivers, pay them well and weed out the garbage. It is the government that ruined everything through deregulation, which drastically cut driver pay, then because you got a lot of unqualified drivers in during that time because most of the good ones quit, this brought the onset of the CDL licensing requirements, then more good drivers left, and now you are left with all the crap that is out there today. Government’s fault, right from the start. I have accumulated 4 million miles in 40 years on-the-road with no tickets or chargeables, and never been shut down at a scale. You just have to be serious about what you are doing. I have warned drivers for years about C.R. England and Swift and no one listens.
hottrod says
After 40 years on-the-road I took my truck off lease because the freight rates are so cheap. Coupled with the 2010 regulations which themselves are unsafe by requiring a tired driver to drive, very few want to do it anymore. Once you leave a 300 mile radius of Chicago with an outbound load, once you get to your destination all the freight rates are just GARBAGE. Not worth doing anymore. It got so cheap, even the Mexican trucks were not interested in the cross-border program anymore, so now traitor Obama wants to give $1600 apiece to the Mexican trucks to be able to run up in the US to bring their trucks up to spec. EPA is out of control, I quit running California 4 years ago. Literally thousands of small trucking companies have gone out of business along with thousands of one truck owner-operators. I have griped about the low pay to various people, and they say “Oh, but the trucking industry is SO competitive” – – got news for them, so is every other industry, but THOSE industries raise THEIR prices to keep pace with inflation. Trucking does NOT. Then they wonder why they have a driver shortage. Don’t need a college education to figure THAT out!
Northstar says
I made this point before and it again is being clarified in this situation. Trucking and the industry changed when…Trucks became a place to live….Rather than a place to work and make your living. And the model that the major carriers have made good use of as in this case to screw the living hell out of someone. This goes hand and hand through the entire industry company drivers…Owner Ops…Independents.. The sad part is us drivers are flesh and blood the equipment is metal and plastic…But today no matter who or what genius or what the plan, its always the same …Well if you drive x miles at y then you will have z and told how great it is or how much of something you will save…Please be real.. Please stop and think ….You believe it’s normal or human for you to be in a truck for days in some cases months. What the hell kind of life is that, seriously .Your not compensated for it …why do it…Why …Because that’s what you believe is the job. Or what it takes to own or operate a truck … Doesn’t have to be. This entire industry is ripe for a change and it could be a easy change with technology today, linking freight to the drivers and where they actually “live”, but it won’t change, because right now today some poor soul is again thinking or being taught at some trucking school their flesh and blood is going to be able to out live steel and plastic, that just somehow they will win and make money. And as in 99.9% of the cases you won’t win the steel and plastic will at some point. Here try it this way. Take a ad out and see what response you have. Looking to hire individual to be away from home for long periods of time ..Work some days work some nights work weekends and holidays . Be able to sleep for short periods of time . Have patients with long delays in traffic, weather,and people be able to maintain patients for long periods waiting to be loaded or unloaded or dispatched, be able to remain clam and cool under continuous stressful situations of breakdowns or roadside repairs. Job will require you to only use public restrooms, you will have to buy all your own food while on the job. You will have to be able to drive for 11 hour periods when demanded. You will have to know many different laws and regulations .(now there’s a lot more to add but you get the point) Then ask … Please send your desired salary…And see what response you have.
LRG says
This is the best comment I’ve ever read. Grand slam home run.
hottrod says
After 40 years experience, on-the-road, I have NEVER seen a lease-purchase agreement where the driver did not get SCREWED! Stay away from ALL lease-purchase agreements!
hottrod says
$1150 per MONTH is more like it.
Jayme Van Auken says
BRAVO – Lbcdiesel
I did time w/CRE Burns Harbor Correction Facility, BRAVO – Lbcdiesel Think you hit the nail on the head, This arrogant SOB ! Everyone starts some where and time thins the ranks. YOU don’t have to drive for 40 years to be a good driver. Your driving skills get better with time, either you’re cut out for it or your not. You have to love what you do to drive truck. As for technology Art Pull your not in the 70’s any more. You drive the way you choose. If you don’t like technology shut up step out of the way for those that are capable and know how to utilize the benefits. It is a time saver and time is money !
Buck Nake
Jayme Van Auken says
Very good, so so true. This is why we have to like what we do.
Teresa Mackey says
I leased a truck from CRE, too. When family problems forced me to go home ( I had two teenage daughters who were at home alone and going wild) I found a driver for my truck. My dispatcher and I went around and in my truck with a check list before turning it over to the new driver. Later, CRE charged me for new tires all the way around the truck. I had just had new tires put on that truck, and I had the receipts to prove it along with the check list that listed the tires as excellent.
I’m part of this lawsuit, and I can’t wait to get my money back! Even if they only owe me $1, it’s worth getting it from them!
Teresa Mackey says
Oh, BTW, my daughters are now grown and doing VERY well. One is an attorney, one is an administrator for Sea Shepherd, and the third one is a corporate trainer for a huge restaurant chain. Coming off the road when I did was exactly the thing I needed to do for my children. Just in case you were wondering why I went to drive truck in the first place and left them home alone…. I got no child support at that time, and I simply couldn’t make it on a server’s pay. I no longer drive trucks now that they are grown because of injuries I suffered on the job.
God bless America’s truck drivers. Be kind to them when you see them. They work for a pittance, receive little for what they do, and miss out on so much of their families.
GT says
Lone Mountain Leasing, best alternative around to the Company Scams.
jason spaulding says
A sorry sorry company indeed, anything to rip off drivers, they should be ashamed of them selves and atone that drives for them should get a heads up on what’s going on and go work for a real company.
Hrlydrvr says
I don’t understand why anyone would ever work for England! Take a little time, make just a little effort & you would immediately know that they are a pack of crooks! I came out of trucking school & was completely new to the industry & knew better.
I am glad though that justice is being done to all of the folk’s they have scammed over the years…..SWIFT do you hear foot steps?
Tired says
I say Hip hip hooray to OOIDA and Judge Ted Stewart! It’s about time somebody besides drivers has to bend over and take it! Especially a company that deserves it!
chuck says
well i drove 10 years my father 30, i got injured falling off 15 ft lumber load 6 years ago, and been on welfare since, layers fighting 6 years now, plus ssi attorneys fighting, i landed on my feet and jammed my spine, i drove for over 15 companies in 8 years and was with 3 of them over 1 year, the only company i loved was watkins sheppard out of missoula montana, and they wouldnt hire me back cause i quit to get married and go to werner, macon turner is in charge, very nice man, they haul carpet and furniture east and west, i always had 5k in my pocket and i started at 25 cents amile, you figure, anyone out there need a job call them, rolls of paper also they haul, awesome company, i am still fighting my injuries after 6 years and been on welfare since i got hurt, i too drove for england i was a trainer with 2 other guys in my truck, we run west coast to east coast and back in 4 days, 6000 miles in 4 days,i quit in july 08 with 3 guys in my truck sitting in denver for 2 weeks with no loads and i paying to feed everyone, trainies have no money, they try and starve you to stay, i just called lawyer above for winning the case against england, he took my name and number said there is another suit in salt lake city fighting right now, because i left, i had over 10k in my maintenance fund they wouldnt give back, so anyone this has happened too , call the attorneys for ooida and get your name and when you drove and they will add you, if they win they pay you also, it might come when you need it the most. i am hoping to get a bunch of money soon for my settlements, and start my own thing, i currently have gold mines in arizona trying to get funding for but i want to hire drivers and haul freight and have big sleeper trucks and all make good money, plus i need workers for the gold mines, anyone interested in a better life, or a better job, you must have no felonys to contact me and no tickets for driving, you can leave message on my email. thanks.. just describe yourself and if you can operate any equipment. williamschuck@ymail.com
Frank Berry says
Here’s the answer…..if you’re a driver with ANY equity in a mortgage…sell your home….look at seriously downsizing…I mean ‘really’ downsizing.
By a “home on a trailer’….see http://www.tinyhomes.com (and the like)….live on a small amount of property…no taxes…it’s not treated as a home (but it is)…then work part time…and have fun saving the 2-3k needed to have bought a “big 2500 sq’ home” and start really living….
No company out there: Swift, Roehl, CR England, or anyone else can pay “a living wage” I did my time driving too..now I’m getting involved with a builder to build these small homes for people that don’t mind living ‘smart’.
Karla says
Aside from corporate greed on the part of the mega carriers, and aside from the fact that they get additional government dollars in the form of perks and write-offs for running 200 people a week through orientation, even if only a fraction ever get out of training, and aside from the leasing scam, and the per diem scam, and the low pay coupled with the high cost of living on the road, and chronic lack of sleep & R&R… the other factor in the close to 100% driver turnover rate is the fact that many drivers do not have anywhere near the psychological stability to do the job. Consider the variety of flashpoint personal situations which make OTR driving actually appear better than staying home. Consider the mental health issues, right up there with drug usage when it comes to dangerous driving. Only those who have tried ‘blind’ team driving (worse than a ‘blind date’), or who have been forced to cohabit with a trainer in the past ten years, have any idea what might really be going on within the four walls of a cab. The hidden microphones being installed now, however, will never be used for driver protection, I assure you, but for voyeurism in the terminals.
ironage says
The difference being that Roadway drivers make more money driving in reverse than JB Hunt and Swift drivers make going forward.
Robert says
Well, the drivers of yesteryear, didn’t have any training options except for a friend or relative, you either picked it up quick or you go and destroy someone else’s browning tranny, come on dude the job always sucked on some level and still does to this day. In the old days, you just got your chauffeurs license and they gave you the keys, go learn is all they would say to you. And that’s how I learned, am I a better driver for it, no probably not. I learned things the hard way, and even a year with a trainer isn’t going to change that, its just how its done, never gonna change.
overworked/underpaid says
this story reminds me of cx roberson who would steal truck payments from drivers then send the repo man to get their truck. Only problem was, when it came to cx roberson paying their own bills they came up short and had to go out of business. BTW one of the repo drivers hired a very smart lawyer and filed his claim before the company could file for bankruptcy and got over $ 500,000 for his losses before cx roberson could shut their doors . LOL what comes around goes around
Willie says
I don’t disagree that England got just desert but do you people actually think ooida is any better. I have read court records of there class action suites. Drivers getting maybe 10% of the fine while the rest is “legel” fees literally in on case 250,000 for.a 25,000 class action split. and that with them padding the bill so badly the judge refuses to pay over 100,000 in undocumented expenses.drive by there multi million. dollar. building. and ask yourself. how many drivers dues. went to pay for it.
Kaiyla says
It saddens me to see the company so down and out… There was a time when it was a good company, but not anymore. Not since daddy died.
Flatbed Lady says
I did the CR England thing. Went through their training ’09. I can’t say the training itself was a mistake. I think they did a very good job and my first OTR trainer was especially awesome. He was a long time driver and knew HOW to teach a newbie. Phase two trainers…not so much. First of them quit while in the middle of my training period so I ended up with another…who was in his early twenties and not all that experienced himself. Thank goodness for my first one. I learned a lot from him.
As to the actual driving on my own after training…I was stupid enough to do the lease. I ran it for about 6 weeks and then turned in the truck. I made sure to clean out my escrow accounts before I did so they couldn’t keep the money as I’d already heard how they kept it if you quit. The per mile pay on a lease sounds so very tempting to a newbie until you actually start seeing all the “fees” and “escrows” they take out of it. Company drivers weren’t fairing much better. At the time they were not taking any solo company drivers and teams were making a .25/mile split. I didn’t want to do team…to be thrown in with someone I didn’t know. Doing it in training was hard enough. Not to mention…there were not a whole lot of females available I could be paired up with.
The reason I even went into trucking was because my husband had been a truck driver when he was diagnosed with melanoma and too sick to work. I was working at Walmart and that wasn’t going to pay the bills. So since he couldn’t…I decided I would. Six months later I turned in my lease truck two days before he died. So what do you do when you don’t have more than 6 months experience? Very few places were willing to take someone with that little experience and not for regional work. Being a single mother now I couldn’t do OTR anymore.
Luckily recently…I was able to get on with a small local company who was willing to give me a chance. I’m home every weekend. I’m learning the ropes of flat beds. And the income compared to what I made with CRE is absolutely awesome. My husband was happiest when he finally got on with a small local company being home every weekend. I’m finding it just as satisfying.
CRE can go blow it.
Ernest Tufft says
I’m an independent owner-operator who would just as soon see these giant blood sucking fleets go bankrupt. The judge should have left that punitive 18% interested rate intact. Drivers listen to this! There is no crying need for drivers. It’s a marketplace scam of which CR England is but one of many big fleets profiting on the back of labor. Get your own wreck and take care of it. If you can count receipts and save for repairs, then sooner or later you’ll get a slightly better wreck. Don’t be conned into thinking fancy new truck from CR England or any of these other fancy fleets means anything because it don’t.
Rick says
You are not alone in your realizations of the shams these people have pulled on so many thousands and thousands of peoples. CRE happens to be the king of scams in the industry. Many companies wish to get in thier shoes and reap as many crooked dollars as CRE has. I was a lease operator with CRS ..Yer neighbors in Salt Lake. There is a lawsuit against them being handled by a private law firm and it appears the judges there too are not falling for the legal manuevers and faulty language theyre tryn to con the courts with. You are correct in everything about your perception of how they handle these. Its all benifitting a buncha crooked lawyers and thier bosses. The freight business is a front. While they are lacing their wallets on so much on the lease scams…
http://www.getmansweeney.com/ Are the lawyers handling CRS. It should make for some interesting read. I had mentioned CRE to them as well as the other rip off cons out there..I am hoping to see more of what this judge has accomplished. I would like to see more publicity..Because in the long run..It will benifit the industry and all of us if we do the right things. The criminal element is so out of control right now we risk putting this industry in serious jeaporady. So much support to you all and to those who refused to give in and stood up to fight. I thank you.
Rick says
Its not uncommon for the founders to have had a completely different mindset and objective than those who eventually inherited it. Ive seen it countless times. The country is full of magnificant companies that fall astray when the founders move on to the green pastures. Sadly ive often seen a mistake made by those founders. They want so badly to share the abundances and fortunes with others..but they forget to teach them the brutal standards required to uphold and to continue in that quality path. So the benifactors get a bit spoiled and find theyre more caught up in the end than in the work. They just want the money..And dont care about the machine..We have insist those who benifit from our ideas..meet our standards else it falls to pieces.
Joe says
I leased to own my truck from Lone Mountain 3 years ago. The payments are done and the truck is mine. I’ve pulled Prime Inc. trailers the whole time. I get the work that I want. I get home whenever and for how ever long I want. If I don’t like the load, I don’t do it! If a load puts me away from the lanes I’m comfortable with, I don’t do it. I’m not killing it out here but I make a decent profit and my wife is able to go to school full time. I have my own authority and I’m my own boss. Point is, there are plenty of ways in this country to lose money and get taken for a ride. And it always begins with someone being stupid! If you think you can go to a trucking school and then lease or buy a truck and make money without learning the business first, that’s your first mistake and in short time you will owe some company or bank thousands and you’ll be posting here ” I got robbed, boo hoo! I tell everyone that I see at the training center at Prime, when I happen to be there, ” take a company truck, pay attention and learn the business and then buy your own truck if you still like the job after a couple of years. This isn’t a make big bucks fast industry! And nothing in this economy is easy! And if it sounds too good to be true, it is! You want a 2014 Peterbilt right out of school? I don’t care which route you go. Buy it outright, finance from the dealer or lease it from Prime. Your going to pay through the nose and with no experience, the odds are you will fail!
Scott says
I hope this includes current drivers as well. I know they are playing games including their health plan that pretty much covers nothing, the .14 cent variable, the way some of the freight is booked, toll policy which that cost should be passed on to the customer, not the driver.
Joe says
Flatbed Lady, thanks for sharing your story.
dipper says
So because your truck had no power steering, no heat and could barely reach 60 mph you are a more qualified driver than someone who uses all of the advantages of modern technology and turns trips faster, more fuel efficient, basically the “professional” way? How would a genius like you “fix” the industry?
Bill Powers says
Yes Art, and I’m sure you had to walk five miles to school every day. In three feet of snow. Up hill. BOTH ways. Please, every generation of (fill in some trade or other here) feels the next generation is lacking because they didn’t have it as hard as the previous one. “Why back in my day, we didn’t have cell phones to send texts. I had to fire up my Telex machine to send a message to…” I bet the drivers from the forties and fifties looked at you guys in the seventies with the same kind of disdain, with all that new fangled comfort and technology. It’s all relative.
You do, however, make some good points in regards to the “BU##SH##” factor you mentioned.
Tom Mansfield says
How long will it take them? About as long as it takes to run enough new drivers through their driver mill to get up the revenue. Of course, that will cause another class action, but it buys them time for now. Only if old man England were still around…
Tom Mansfield says
I can agree with some of what you said. You’re what many of us refer to as “old school.” A gNow I’m a newer driver (5 years) who uses some of the modern technology on my truck, some not by choice. GPS is a joke. Computers can be handy but not necessary. A/C? I’ve done without it. Same with heat. I’ve learned how to “kick it old school.”
But that’s not what makes a good driver. A good driver can pick up and deliver his loads safe and on time. Whether or not he uses modern technology doesn’t make or break him. But if he solely relies on it, and can’t do without without losing his mind, he’ had better learn fast or hang up the keys.
A lot of this new tech stuff came about because of the hardships y’all had to deal with in your time. And when the technology fails, we sometimes get a taste of “old school.” Which is why I think of y’all every time my A/C goes out. I grab some extra water and push om. And remember when I said GPS is a joke? “My GPS sent me this way” is a phrase I will never utter. I route myself “old school.”
Christopher Potvin says
They have metal detectors and Armed Guards at the Salt Lake City Terminal
Harral says
I’m sure happy so many of you think there is no money to be made in the trucking industry ! Just leaves more cheddar for my company ! Btw happy to see CR pay for their crimes !
Rick says
I couldnt agree more that there is a lot of stupidity out there..But i often here cracks from folks out here that almost imply that you deserve to be taken because of your ignorance. In no uncertain terms thats suggesting its ok to be a crook as long as there are suckers out there. Ignorance is all over. I go see a doctor and i rely on his knowlege. He may be a crook. I cant get a medical degree and law degree and engineering degree and business degree and so forth and so on and know it all. I rely on the integrity of others to do thier part honestly. Obviously thats optional.
Bottom line is because you arent a up to par intellectually doesnt mean someone has a right to rob you. If we accept this thinking and we already do. We open the doors of our society and say come on in crooks. Its easy pickens. Sadly a large segment of our society is pathetically educated. You can see crime is now full blown. It is officially an industry in and by itself. Books are published to teach you how to be a criminal. Wall Street is awash with contract criminals. Corporations are fending them off. Takeovers and minute managers stripping companies of thier qualities and carving them up like a roast and feasting off the carcas. Ignorance comes in so many levels and forms. I dont condone ignorance but im more heavy handed on the criminal elements that use peoples ignorance to thier advantage. All i have to do is look back in time at history of pathetic politicians from both sides and we the all not so wise people fell for thier con jobs.
There is a much bigger problem here than someones ignorance and those with the capacity to think need to think harder broader and more thorough.
T Owens says
I read the posts often, don’t respond to much as they won’t print what I really want to say. My hats off to Flatbed Lady. My wife also has melenoma, undergoing chemo. Well, Art and Ynnis Glytyr and all you other ol timers I thank you for all your years. I been haulin almost everything since the ’80s from hoggs n cattle, loggin to movin mobile homes, tractors an overdemension, overweight. Hauled copper from mines, acids n hazmat explosives. Flatbed anything you could put strap or chain over. Am haulin petroleum last few. 21yrs no tickets and a lifetime of no at fault accidents! There was a time we had ediquite it’s mostly lost now. Drivers looked out for one another, stop n lend a hand n earn a new friend. Yeah trucks were a bit rough back then. Heat was an option or I’d say a luxury. The only a/c we had was a name on your filters. Driver licenses in multiple states. Having to get a chauffers licence then to a cdl. Broke a few ribs chaining oversized precast, picked myself up n finished tiedown n also delivered load Then visited Dr next day. A dispatcher gave you a load, most times it had a company name and phone number. You had to call them n get addresses or such. Map your own route figure where to fuel n sleep dealt with brokers n such. Newbies now get load with mapquest instructs, fuel stops etc. they look at a GPS and cry n whine when get stuck on dead end or under low bridge or crossing restricted zones. I don’t feel like the ol days were a ‘hardship’ (Tom Mansfield) it was a great time. My grand pappy preached about how you needed only three things to be successful. They were first most, “intelligence, integrity, and energy”. Without that your doomed to fail. Kinda like common sense which isn’t common anymore. However as for ‘lbdiesel’, the future knowitall modern day stuppertrucker, yes the old generation is being replaced by you. Kinda like the ol trail ridin cowboys, replaced by new innovations. Some of ya remember the times you could get a real meal n park your truck for free. Also remember that sack of quarters for the pay phone to call home every couple days? Heck I still have my ol tire irons n spoons. Even have a split ring tool too, from when a truck driver fixed his own tires. Could you imagine a driver doin that today. Haha it would be a sight. Him out there with his smarty phone, flip flops n sagging shorts, it would mess up his mani. Hmm do they have an app for that??! Well I guess there are a lot of gullible people out there who do get taken advantage of. A lot of slick tounge recruiters n lease agents. Just remember how to tell if they are lying, it’s when their lips are moving! Well all I hear is lotsa bitching n whinning n everyone preaching to bann together n stop drivin here or what not. Get real, the modern day driver (trucker is old school) is too busy with his headset on n tomtom guiding him down the wrong way, heck most are citizenship challenged along with lack of education and English speaking capabilities. They don’t have time to solve real world problems. Times are changing and people are being groomed to expect the handout and someone else to pick up their slack.
Some say I have a bad attitude, yeah I guess so! I have learned lots from watching others screwup. I have never worked for cre or those others. Glad I didn’t. I feel for those caught up in their bs. Step back and look at what they do to you, cram two in a truck and give below poverty wages, expect you to live in truck at their expected idle limits. Load delays, layovers etc you are the modern day slave. You could be a greeter at Walmart and make more n actually have a better outlook on life.
Just be smart, seek legal help before entering into any contracts or leases. Make sure the legal help is someone you picked, not theirs. Also would be very wise to join OOIDA!
Babs Hansen says
It is painful to read the reports on here about the training schools for OTR drivers. This is 2013, and the things that new trainees are discussing here are the things that were true in the 80’s. My brother was considering school and I suggested he sit down with the phone book (prior to cell phones) and look in the yellow pages under heavy haul trucking and contact their HR departments about hiring practices. Of the 10 or so listed for our area (Oregon), NOT ONE would hire a driver without 2 years + 100,000 VERIFIABLE EXPERIENCE!!
I am not sure if contacting the trucking companies directly looking for some that would take on someone with a trainee license , willing to pay his own daily expenses for the opportunity to earn a CDL would work, but it certainly wouldn’t be as expensive as the worthless schooling!
Geno says
Well this is good to hear C.R. Englang got what they deserve but there are many more lease companies doing the same thing. ATS, Hoosier Trade Winds your day will be coming soon.
TCScott says
ATS just got caught for tax fraud, them and CR England was double dipping on a friend of mine…CR England claimed she made 58,000 for the three weeks she worked for them. With the breakdowns and the amount of time the truck was in the shop, she only delivered one load…never even got a paycheck after the truck payment, insurance, fuel, etc. was deducted. Then they thought they would try to pull a slick one and produced a bogus document that looked like it was produced in Quicken or something thinking the government was going to fall for it. They’re going to have another law suit for tax fraud…
MICHAEL WINTON says
The sooner CR England gets out of the industry, the better.
Angela says
Does anyone have the number for the law firm that won this case against CR England or any other Law firm that is fighting against CR England? I just left England in November and I really need to talk to an attorney.
jerry says
We as truck drivers are on the front line of this transportation of goods bussiness.Putin every on the line. Being treat like kids bye these truckin companies.It is time to speak and take a stand for what is right.lets start by coming together with a peaceful demostration in saltlake city utah.
goldenbear2147 says
Never ever lease a truck from a trucking company. It is a TOTAL JOKE!
Average pay is $1.65 to $1.90 a mile, they keep .75 to $1.00 a mile under the table (they hide it from you) and offer the driver .90 cent a mile for loads delivered. There is no way to make a living when you have to make $430 a week truck payment plus $230 a week for insurance (BECAUSE HIGHER PREIUM DUED TO ROOKIES DRIVERS) payment plus fuel plus this and that and they’ll nickle and dime you to death for nix and nak.
CR ENGLAND IS NO LONGER A TRUCKING COMPANY====THEY ARE JUST A TRAILER COMPANY NOW AND LOOKING FOR SUCKER TO LEASE A TRACTOR.
Asa Bell says
I hope they go bankrupt! Their pay scale is one of the worst and they obviously don’t give a hoot about their drivers. If they did, their turnover rate wouldn’t be so high. Everyone that I know who
started their career with them, quit within a few months. Bottom line…….CR England sucks!!