Given how nervous the ATA seems to be about the “driver shortage,” they may have reason to reconsider their staunchly pro-EOBR stance. A recent poll of Overdrive Online readers who were asked what their response would be to the implementation of the proposed EOBR/ELD mandate revealed that 71% of all independent truckers claimed that they would hang up their hats and quit OTR trucking for good.
The results of the poll were based off of the responses of over 2,300 independent truckers, defined as “small fleets (one or more trucks) with operating authority.” Of course it wouldn’t be the end of the world for mega carriers if all the little guys went out of business – they’d have less competition! It’s the equally sobering 52% of leased owner-operators and company drivers who said they’d quit that might give them pause.
As Jay Thompson, president of Transportation Business Associates, points out however, drivers claiming that they’d quit if the mandate was made into law does not mean that they actually would. Thompson says at most he expects it might accelerate the retirement of some older drivers, but on the whole he expects “a really begrudging kind of adoption” of EOBRs by drivers.
It appears Thompson may be right about an accelerated retirement; a different study conducted by CCJ showed that in the 90 days leading up to the July 1st HOS changes, the number of 60-67 year old truckers driving for Werner (the subject of the study) fell by half.
A commonly voiced idea from those in favor of mandatory EOBRs is that the reason truckers don’t want the mandate is because they are “scared and stubborn” old drivers who don’t like change.
“When it comes down to it,” says Todd Amen, president of ATBS, most truckers will accept the change because “they still need a paycheck” and can’t afford to retire.
While it seems unreasonable that every driver who claimed that they would quit might actually leave the industry, this added regulation will certainly have an impact on drivers who are currently on the fence.
Next Story: Swift To Pay $4.4 Million Settlement To Drivers
207 comments. Add a comment.
Richard dickens says
I am a owner operator and have been on a ELD for a year .
I like it , making The same money did before on paper logs
angry with new rules says
Richard maybe you were working for one of those giants and thats why you didnt see the change in your checks but if you would have worked for a good small company you would think the opposite.
T Blake says
I am a small company, and we have been running EOBR’s for a little over 2 years. I had 1 driver swear he would make less money. but instead he made more. As he learned to manage his time better he averaged 1 more load a week than before. Not because I pushed him but because he accomplished more and would call and ask what next.
Although I seriously doubt what you say is true, if it is, the driver wasn’t working to his fullest potential before the EOBR was installed. He was scared in to working more/better. He was slacking. Not all drivers are like that.
Are these brokers posting????? 😂😂 Lies!
The problems are with the shippers and receivers. This is were the problems are. I would also like for all f s truckers to really look just how much money this will cost for owner Operaters. Along with the small.companies. There are no studies That proven on board recorders will improve safety. Finally we live in the USA. We have rights and freedom. We can change thing by voting all the Congress and Senator’s out. Putting new ones in. We get rid of enough of them. The rest will be afraid the same will happen to them.
Couldn’t agree more. I mean, I don’t know about you, but I don’t enjoy working 12, 14, 18 hours a day just to make the check most people make in 8 hours. What needs to change is the way we’re paid, which is to say, the way this business is operated. What other worker does unpaid work everyday? If they want to make up rules, let them make rules for the industry, not the drivers. Mandate hourly pay, and watch HOS violations all but disappear.
Jude Ossowski says
I’ve been saying it for years, “Put all drivers on the clock and watch us slow down to run the speed limits.” This would reflect in our logs and in every measure of safety anyone cares to use. Of course, the four wheelers would pitch a hairy one when they get stuck behind us and have to obey speed limits as well. Awwww, poor babies.
You have the answer to most problems within our industry. Getting paid by the mile is absolutely wrong in every way.
We need to push for a change in legislation, and start getting paid for our time. Time is money. Let it be a reality in our jobs.
Plato Easter says
Yes. A regional grocery warehouse did just that. Paid mileage to each store and hourly while both loading and unloading. A fair method for all.
Nope! Nothing happens in a vacuum. With hourly pay would come an unacceptably intrusive amount of company monitoring of how drivers were making use of every single paid moment.
If you want an in-cab camera violating you and your personal privacy, then you want hourly pay. Not me! Ever!
In addition to hourly pay, charge shippers and receivers more for detention. There is no reason for taking 6 hours to load and unload the truck. I’ve been to a few lately that unload in under two hours. Flip side, I went to a shipper, got loaded drove 240 miles and shutdown before my original appointment. Also, do something about the 14 hour rule. The 8/2 sucks. How about a 7/3 or a 6/4.
lie…..24 years trucking.. peoplenet..cut our fleets income by over 1/3..so go blow that smoke up someone else …
George Kalogeropoulos says
What if youre like me that does ltl with 15 p ups and drops? The elog is going to delay me big time.I ll do it for a few trips but if I m making less money on the road I ll switch to local driving and be home every night
Joey HoeckJ says
You can mot make the same money on a elog! I am one of those owner operators that is going to hang it up and im olny 33 years old. Been around trucking all my life and i hate to see this happen!
all trucking is different what you haul may work for e-logs but there no way a steel hauler or gravel hauler or truckers that have multi stops can use this and be forced to sleep every day in there truck. you can not hold the factories responsible to get off there butts to make logs on time you probably haul toilet paper up the street drop a trailer and run back home and sigh off the e-log so that works for that part of trucking…. IT WILL NOT WORK FOR EVERY KIND OF TRUCKING… plus the smaller companies will fold when guys make less money less loads expect to live in the truck and this includes local and regional drivers it will take one day a week of bad weather traffic a delay in loading or off loading to completely destroy a work week… also what happens if you feeling ill or have to take a crap and your on the toilet for hour or need to take a nap the clock is running you run out hours again force to live like a slave to the truck this LAW SHOULD BE OPTIONAL period if e-logs work for a certain group awesome let them use them but it should be a choice NOT MANDATORY this is like prohibition forcing everyone to do the same thing a MASSIVE STRIKE WILL HAPPEN this country and the politicians that agreed are in for a rude awakening
I’m sure you didn’t working as a robot for a big company paying you chicken feed but for independent and small company owner ops has been a real detriment to work and the bottom line.
but who will the mega fleets wipe their collective backsides on if they no longer have a place to shuffle illegal loads to?
That’s an easy answer. Come to Texas and you’ll see. The illegal (and a whole lot of the legal) loads are going increasingly to illegal drivers from Mexico. These guys run in trucks that are in such bad shape they wouldn’t be allowed in a junk yard. The law looks the other way with these guys, too. Wouldn’t want to be called a racist for trying to enforce the laws equally.
mike day says
A large number of independents wll quit. No wants to talk about the 10,000 pound elephant in the room. The average pay by brokers to OTR 0/0’s is only $1.75 per mile, if they are lucky. Given the cost of fuel and what must be set aside to maintain the truck and make truck payments, 0/0’s must move 3,000 miles per week in order to have any take home pay. EOBR will prevent this kind of mileage from being recorded by live load drivers (i.e., they get killed by the 14 clock). So, yes, they will quit because they will no longer be able to make a living. Few people, other than drivers, understand the stress and loneliness that being away from friends and family creates. If you can’t make the $$, it will be a much better life to quit the bbiz, get a regular job and go home at night to sleep in your own bed.
Big Red says
Mike you are wrong about revenues at least in the open deck market. I rarely pull loads that pay under $2.00 per mile and many are much higher. The last 4 loads I pulled were at 2.67/mile, 2.75/mile, 3..32 and 2.26(that got me home so I took a load that’s a little cheap). Total miles in seven days 3300. Total revenue $7775. Revenue per mile, includes all deadhead 2.35 per mile. That’s every mile, not just loaded miles. I’m now home and will probably take 7 days off. It’s not always that good but flatbed, stepdeck and specialized independents can make decent money but we frickin earn it. I’ll probably switch to local work to avoid EOBR rules, less than 100 mile radius, hauling grain, potatoes, whatever. I’m not having a machine tell me when to sleep and when to drive.
Well, not everyone chases the good rates and not everyone is savvy enough to find and keep the good rates. Just like the dry and reefer…..ya must be a good businessman to run in this industry.
since when is a computer smarter than anyone and tell them when to take a break. Why do we
let FMCSA/PATT/MADD/PUBLIC CITIZEN and insurance industry and their ilk run our lives?
JAMES McCLURE says
Same here no elog in my truck
Don’t need to be an otr o/o to make good money in trucking. Talked to a driver from pilot/flying j. He sold his truck and went to work for them. He brings home 1,500 a week and goes home every night. Can’t knock that. Hauling gas or diesel isn’t what I want to do but if I was pushed into leaving the road for local, I’d do it in a heartbeat.
I don’t think that many will quit. They may want to but in reality when you have house payments, a wife at home and kids in school you have to stay put. After all old Ronald McDonald won’t cover those bills. There isn’t a thriving job market for people to grab different career paths, I tried and got nowhere. It’s just fear and bluster. You may not like or agree with it but you’ll get used to it.
Agreed, it’s not as bad as people are making it out to be, been on them for 5 years now and have a lot less headaches now than when I ran paper logs.
Well this has to issues here that can help both the driver and company. (1) the driver never needs to worry about the amount if hours they have left. This item will keep them up to date for Shure. Meaning no log book tickets. This is like having qualcom in your truck. That system can do the same thing and it actually does without you knowing it.
The other thing it helps the company stay compliant and will reduce fines.
Although it put a small fee on the o/o to install it this just might be a good thing after all
This is just my feelings and i just might put it in my trucks
Well if you have truck(s) and your business is as good as your spelling I’ll bet you have very low pay and income for yourself and any driver(s) you may have.
Where do you get the idea of a small fee for an O/O to install one? If you have your own authority you have to purchase the unit and pay for install and to boot if you are leased to a company you’d better believe they will find a way to make you pay for the unit, either above board or under the table.
FMCSA needs to quit trying to regulate the drivers and put regulations where they belong, first on shippers and then on companies. That would solve about 99 percent of the problems.
Then get rid of fools like you and that would take care of the other 1 percent.
Plato Easter says
Why “worry about hours left?” That’s what log books are supposed to reveal my friend..
It may be a wakeup call to you to look up “companies can falsify elds at will” There are numerous reports of this. Just ask drivers at the lunchcounters. And apparently fmcsa does nothing about it even tho they say they will. And don’t forget the real 900 pound elephant in the room: elds can and have been hacked, they can shut you down when they are ‘upgraded’ remotely by Qualcomm too. Start looking, it is a lot scarier than you know…..
If they falsifying the eld 2 things, 1 the driver has to be sent the log update and approve it. 2. The system has to record the original status and reason for the edit. It’s in the regulations and I know because I’ve had the company make edits. Approving logs is like the signature for paper logs.
Mike simon says
71% of this industry needs to quit. They drive junk, they haul for nothing so who cares? Thenyou have the new drivers that are under paid and,improperly trained. I’ve been in trucking 30yrs. I have my own authority and,could careless about eobrs
I agree Mike – I’ve been at the game awhile too. Maybe with all the computerization, DOT can replace enforcement officers (which the EOBR will make obsolete) with enforcement mechanics and remove the junk from the road. Starting with U-Haul, they can work their way down thru the carriers. JMHO.
How can you be a owner-operator if you are told how to own and operate I am one that will be gone
When i want to sleep i will know when to sleep and that maybe after two hours of driving.
Plato Easter says
Check out the IRS website on how they determine employee vs owner operator. You be an employee the second you start running elds. https://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Small-Businesses-&-Self-Employed/Behavioral-Control. Briefly, it states if a company has the right to control: What tools or equipment to use, you are an employee.
FMCSA is allowing companies to mandate only certain brand ELDs which makes us employees……….Writing in Overdrive magazine, http://www.overdriveonline.com/landstar-moving-toward-electronic-logs/, Landstar’s Chief Safety Officer, J.Beacom, “All new leases signed at Ranger and Inway now come with the requirement for its leased owner-operators to keep their hours of service electronically using one of three Qualcomm EOBRs with other communications/reporting tools embedded.
The IRS has effectively halted mandating ELDs for Independent Drivers. This will be a strong argument for Secretary Chao combined with the rampant falsifying of logs available to companies and the back door vulnerability of ELDs to remote control of our operating systems.
Lunchroom lawyers with the answers. Actually, a company driver per IRS rules gets a W-2. If you get a 1099 you are an independent operator. Not necessarily owner operator because you have to own the truck. If you lease you are not an owner operator. Owner means no truck payment.
Here is the problem. Where is all the data regarding the needed change for the new laws such as the 11 hour rule the 1/2 hour break the possible new eobr recording devices. Where is the data that shows truckers are unsafe and need to be regulated like kindergarten children. I for one will not continue to drive once the eobr has been put in my truck!!!!! After thirty years of unfounded rules and regulations with no data to back the implementation of said rules, well I will quit. Believe that!!!!!!! O/O proud!!!!!!! But I am sure pretty soon I will be forced to sell and quit!!!!
Okay. McDona;ld’s always hiring. Drivers breaking the rules and doing unsafe stuff is what caused all of this. I have been using one for the last 6 years — they’re great. Keeps you from being made to break the law. However, those drivers who think it’s okay to run illegal won’t like them. Great. Leave my profession. After 29 years, I think I can say that I am tired of those who make my profession look bad.
It’s happening. Don’t like it? Go to work at a fast food or something. Of course, they have rules too. Sack up and be a big boy.
Jim T says
What makes our profession bad is garbage and piss bottles.WhatI find odd is that after all these years I need to be told when to sleep and when to work.I’ll agree, money will determine who quits and who stays, show me the money and I might stuck around.
If your running legal there is no difference between e logs and paper logs except you might get hassled less by DOT.
Have you thought about driving to a receiver and wait 4 hrs to unload then deadhead 80 miles to pickup next load and you get there and see 7 trucks ahead of you? What do you mean it’s no different? This is what my drivers see every day… where have you been???
So I guess it wont effect you either when they start to regulate what speeds you can drive. As you live in a nanny state. When many of the driver positions are being taken up by temporary foreign workers due to a so called lack of drivers. This is an issue many want to blame on not enough people applying for these positions instead of blaming it on the fact that many drivers are leaving the industry due to little pay and to big of an expense. Many drivers go unappreciated for what they do, but constantly have regutions crammed down their throats with most of these regulations affecting drivers wages.The FMCSA would like people to believe many of these accidents are the fault of truck drivers driving tired, if they in fact did a honest study you may find out different. How many experienced drivers have they lost due to lack of pay and over regulation I have heard many say they cannot afford it and get shown very little respect. You cannot speak for others as it sounds as if you lead a pampered life. You in fact are not the only driver with any experience on the road as myself have had 35 years no accidents with less incentive to stay on the road as pay has stayed the same and expenses have gone up. You talk as if drivers are uneducated and cannot find work elsewhere other then Mcdonalds this shows how uneducated you are. As I myself have a college degree and have talked to experienced drivers that have left the field to find better paying positions and have a family life. If anyone is belittling a truck drivers proffesion it is youself, as you seem to believe that the only position a drver can obtain after leaving this industry is that in fast food, this may in fact your only option for the forseable future but it is not mine.
“Drivers breaking the rules and doing unsafe stuff is what caused this “. Maybe you should’ve said. “A government appointed group of people trying to justify their job and officials that stand to make big money with a vested interest in the manufacture and sale of a mandatory specialized computer in every commercial vehicle”. The maybe you would sound credible.
Marsh if you’ve been on one for six years then clearly you aren’t an O/O. 29 years experience or not if your not an O/O you wouldn’t understand. The problem is you have lots of O O who have invested lots of there own money. In some cases all of there savings to own their own equipment with no financial assistance from the govt and then are told when to work and when to sleep. Tell me another business that’s like that. Why not make that brain surgeon keep a logbook. I’m sure we’d all like to know how much sleep that guy had before going into surgery. Sounds stupid but that’s what they’re doing to us.
corey jackson says
Ok, this has got to be fake. No creaking way a person with 29 years experience is gonna say something like that unless they work for one of the big 6 and is basically a houesboy driver. Sounds more like another fmcsa troll.
You’re wrong Marsh. That’s not what caused this. What caused this is bureaucrats trying to justify their jobs and establish power over yet another industry. Just because you have about 1% who are bad apples you don’t revamp the entire system. As I’ve said before you don’t force it down our throats. Give insurance breaks and tax credits to those who CHOOSE to use them. This is America and we should all have the choice. Do like the healthcare law. Don’t want to use it pay a small penalty. At least we can choose.
light travels faster than sound. this is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
Marsh, so you discount the shippers/receivers and brokers and big companies who tell truckers to do the job, set 10 hours waiting for appointment freight, then say it needs to get there yesterday, or you don’t work. 168 hours a week in the truck as an OTR driver, owner op or not, and you are totally responsible for the load and rig, off duty or not, until it’s parked in the yard or terminal and you are on your 34?
Totally the driver at fault. Who do you work for , an insurance company?!
there are way more problems than drivers pushing the log to make a living ’cause of the Fair Labor Standards Act of 1938. Drivers are still considered unskilled labor, yet ol’ Anne Ferro
gets a two day ride in an OOIDA op truck and her telling congressman that fmcsa is not in business to help the industry…
No what has caused all this is American public/congressional arrogance. You know, people that make generalized statements such as yours, blaming it all on truck drivers!
dude, if you shut down the top 4 major cheep carriers swift pride an so on keep Mexican junk and their drivers across the boarder, most of the highway problems will be solved, you have to be good at working the brokers, your maintence an so to make it.but a lot of us do it every week..elbs is just another way for this government to spy an try manage something that’s been doing good for many years,,
Maintenance, that’s a joke. Most owner operators I’ve parked next to or park next to me have an air dryer pop every 30 seconds. Some even make a fluttering sound. That my friend is an air leak. If you have a Bendix air dryer you know exactly what I’m talking about as that is the most problematic brand. It’s a 35.00 part and you can change it yourself. Might even make your air compressor last longer.
I assume all government shipments will be exempt.
John Matthews says
Independent Trucker? how- when you are told how/when. the job sucks anyhow now.
time to get a job to stay at home more
L BYRD says
Jay Thompson, Todd Amen, and you too Lance Newcomb need to find new jobs. They obviously don’t have a clue as to what they are doing now. That’s some awful big talk from the office window
Lmao,amen,i work for a owner op & i agree l byrd couldnt have said it any more plain than that,some of us haa most of us can go elsewhere,hell i can go back offshore not that i wanna but i have a fall back an still make decent $ so i aint givin in nither is my boss so we still win so fmcsa come on with it an that ann chick along with the most disrespected folks on earth the PIGS dot can shove it
I hope they do implement this eobr rule. Let’s put everyone’s feet to the fire. Let’s what’s experinced driver quit, rookies burn up hours at loading and unloading docks, not to mention the oil field would come to a stop lol. Seriously…. Have these fools actually thought this thru? I hope not. I really wanna see it happen so it can backfire on them and watch them undue the whole rule a few years after it’s started.
This is what would happen!!! Without a doubt! At the same time a lot of the fly by night companies would go under which could improve rates!
walter l. mcclain says
im done , both my trucks are sitting in a field behind my house , i am so glad i don’t need to worry about any of this anymore , good luck to the rest of you , im going fishing .
David Catton says
I’m about with you, 31 years of it, use to be fun, now it’s just a stressful job. I for one will be with the 71% faster then they can ship me a unit.
Cool. So, you like to just waste money? Haha. It’s all fear, as you just don’t know. Fear leads to anger – anger leads to hate – hate leads to suffering. Put on the big boy pants, learn to run LEGAL and move on. Or not. As I keep saying, McDonald’s might hire you, or not. They have rules too.
I ran legal for 53 years and had enough sense to know how to do it. I damn sure didn’t need the FMCSA or some equally stupid machine to tell me how to do it!!!!
Marsh, is it true that this load and one more will make two for you? In 13 more days, you will have been out here for 2 weeks? Your already a legend in your own mind, aren’t you? No matter what kind of lie you tell, you are not now, never have been, and never will be, a truck driver.
A REAL truck driver would never conduct themselves that way. You might have seen “Smokey and the Bandit”, or perhaps “White line fever”, and now you are saying “last week I couldn’t even say professional truck driver, this week I are one”!
But hey, keep making the post’s, we need the humor!
What kinda trucks Walter & how much? I can be reached at Smokestaxx456@gmail.com
They need to find a better way to keep tired drivers off the road, I don’t see this as a good thing. I can’t tell you how often I see drivers up, awake, ready to go, and they are waiting for a machine to tell them now its OK to drive. This is safe? A driver rested, and ready to go, but he is sitting for two hours. waiting….OH,,,,Then we wait at shippers, and at receivers, we also wait on dispatchers. If your late you wait, if your early you wait, if your broke down or get a flat you wait. Wait, wait , wait. I own my truck, been out here for 11 years. Drivers are angry people, we don’t help each other anymore, we are not a happy bunch. We are not respected, and we have to take a lot of BS. What happened? This use to be fun!
Jim T says
What happened was we started retiring and then Werner and them bug companies opened up truck driving schools.
I was forced to retire from trucking due to sever arthritis in 2009, not long after the first stoopid rule they made, the 14-hour rule. Before that, I always drove rested, since if I needed a nap I could go off the clock & take however long of a break that I needed. I was never late to an appt either. When they implemented the 14 hour rule, I drove tired lots of times, since I was no longer able to stop & rest when I needed it, not when the feds mandated I should.
This newest madness to come out of DC will make it even worse. And even though the QualComm tracked the hours I drove, etc., I could still fudge a bit to make it to the appts & still be legalish. I’m more than happy that I’m no longer on the road; as one of you said, it’s just not fun anymore. It’s more stressful & there is more likelihood of drivers being unsafe out there, since the feds are watching & telling all y’all when to drive & when you can sleep. BAH!!!
I can sympathize and agree with you about the 14 hour rule. I have an EOBR, and I am actually a volunteer for it (several years ago), but although I approve (in theory & in principle) with the concept of an EOBR, in practice I can say for a certain fact that they did not do one single thing right with the new rules or in the design of the EOBR.
The two worst things are (in order), the 30 minute “so-called break” before 8 hours has elapsed, and the 14 hour rule. The 30 minute “break” is a fatigue causer that directly subtracts from the meager 3 hour window between the 11 hours & the 14 hour rule. Leaves only 2.5 hours of flexibility. Which is utterly ridiculous!
just park it allen…yep, many angry people in this industry. For good reason, too bad we can’t just
turn that angry energy onto action.
Park the Truck, just one day…banks go out in three, stores in three to five, hospitals in a week.
Or do we feel we will be treated worse because we stand up for good wages , not fmcsa and their ilk telling us we are now on the 9 to five routine?
JAMES McCLURE says
Time for a truck strike
corey jackson says
You guys that are in favor of these d-logs either are too naive to see that the big companies will use them to basically pay you peanuts, or haven’t been kit here very long. Once all trucks have d-logs, The big 6 will have100% control over this industry. Small fleets an o/os will not be able to survive waiting all day to load or unload, sit in traffic, deal with crooked diesel bears, it just won’t work. You’ll be lucky to get 300 miles a day. This only benefits the big companies, they don’t give a Damn if their drivers make a decent paycheck, as long as that load eventually gets to point b. And once all the small fleets are gone, and you have no choice but to drive for the big companies, watch the pay and benefits disappear. You will become a slave. But some of you newbies believe everything that these big companies tell you, like you will make money leasing an overpriced truck that you could get from a dealership for $30,000 less and your name is on it. Go ahead rookies, let them enslave you. We veteran drivers know better.
Do you really think that? Where I have worked, drivers make more. Of course, that also means you have to document stuff and do it right and follow directions. And yes, drivers will soon need to get paid BY THE HOUR one of these days — I always have, but then I refuse to be a slave. After 29 years, I am doing okay.
Everyone talks big, like they’ll go on strike, but they never will. Drivers don’t stick together. “I’ll quit” Really? Where will you work? Most drivers do this because they don’t have other skills or more often, they LIKE being outside and not in an office or factory. Don’t let your fear govern your life.
corey jackson says
Like I said before, you have got to be one of those water-headed kiss-ups that has been brainwashed to think that companies like werner, England, swift, and others are looking out for their drivers and value them. Which of the big 6 do you drive for? You leasing a truck? Stay out two weeks? Make only $400 a week because your payroll girll said you didn’t turn in all your receipts? Come on, be honest, no way in hell a man with 29 years can have your blind mentality.
David "the tick" tickle says
Yep Allen it used to be fun until the new breed of drivers came in and started their whining about they are getting mistreated! I say put on ur big boy pants and lets take it back to before I even started driving 21 years ago !
Steve Bell says
Come on….who else in the US puts up with and gives it away like the Drivers?….Maybe agricultural workers or illegals….
When did you ever get paid for your time?….Talk is cheap…Who else works for free???Instead of whining about being allowed to work more hours and not get paid for them ….Why not demand to be paid for the work???…Tell me again about..”The Good Old Days”…When you got payed for your time…
Like I said in my other post…Come on….Stop pretending… when was the last time Drivers ever stood up for anything???
They just bend over and say “I’m sorry sir.”…
Try calling a Plumber or Electrician and try telling him to show up at 5:00 am and hang out until I get around to fitting you in…Maybe 9:00 or 10:00 if you are lucky).. and by the way …You are going to have to hang out outside in the cold and we don’t alloy you to use the bathroom…
And we are only going to pay you for the time that we think we should….”Our business model just doesn’t allow for anything else”…
Stop working for free….No one is going to give you anything…..so stop giving it away….People tend to value things based on what they have to pay for them….Why in the hell should they value your time for anything more than you do?…Under the system…The only way to waste a Driver’s time …Is Not to use it!…
There is NO Driver Shortage…Only a shortage of fools willing to work and not get payed …So others can get paid and not have to work…
I see driver all the time blow by me in construction when we backup trying to get up as far as the can seen a few hit other cars and truck to they fight ing a clock so it not about who going to be first it who can jump the line so I not sitting in backup I have a friend was in a backup for three and a half hours he had to pull over on the side just to take his mandatory 30 min break now how safe is tha and then got out of backup and was only able to go.a half hour down road
The ATA (AKA Schneider and Werner) are the ones pushing this. They have been for years. If you haven’t paid attention, they are also pushing for a national truck speed limit of 65MPH. They don’t care if 100% of the independents quit, let alone 71%. It’s better for business that way and even better if more regulation pushes the veteran company hands out. At the end of the day that means they can stay profitable with cheap freight rates as they don’t have as much employee overhead when they are hiring new drivers at $.22/mile. The big carriers don’t want drivers to be capable of independent thought. They want them to take all instructions from that Quallcomm and hold that steering wheel steady. Don’t deviate from the route or it’ll tattle, stop where it tells you to get fuel, and take a break when it says you are out of hours…not when you feel you are done for the day.
You may be correct chemsoldier1 by in addition to that I would surmise that if you are following the money trail…..it would also lead you to the insurance companies who insure the big and little truck companies. They I’m sure would be tickled to death if this goes into affect. No more drivers running over on their logs….mandatory stopping if out of hours. These are the same insurance companies that have lobbied for all the other changes that have come down the pipe for years. If they tell the safety officer of a big company that they won’t cover a driver anymore…..that driver is gone. That’s where a lot of drivers have gone over the years and once your on their list…you won’t get back on anytime soon. I think these drivers are some of the owner operators out there. I myself am an owner operator and I’m not putting one of those in my truck. I retired and got stupid and bought a truck and trailer and I’m going to continue to run around my state without one until they shut me down. Then maybe we’ll take this to court and see how far we get with that. So many rules are in place and put in place and as long as no one contests them…..they get away with it. All it takes is for one person to step up and challenge them and make the big court decide and who knows…..maybe they will be wrong this time and maybe not but…like I said….I was retired anyway so I don’t really need the money that bad and (no….I don’t have to work at McDonalds…if your smart enough to own your own truck and business I have no doubt you can find something) I think it might be interesting. By the way…..I don’t take cheap loads just because I don’t need the money…..I know what it costs me a mile to operate and what I need to make and unlike whoever is doing it out there…..I don’t take loads that don’t pay and shame on you if you are. Just my opinion.
i have a dumb nephew who worked with a trainer who drive in the eighties…came back to driving
because of the economy…so he was training my nephew and the both of them were making 11 cents a mile on 2000 miles a week as a team..at none other than CRST. 8 months and then out the door if they didn’t lease a truck….my nephew leased one to ‘see the world ‘ and found out that he was still payin’ CRST to drive their truck.
Now he’s back in the computer world….
The EOBR’s and such are not for the driver’s benefit. They are for the vendors and government to track you with, so when push comes to shove…the government will be runnin’ the show along with all their insider cronies and ATA, TLCA, and UPS,etc.
drivers will not be making any more money or home more, except that when they have permission from the one world government of the banking world.
It will happen faster than you think.
The computer of today and tomorrow is already in the know and able to predict your next move with great accuracy.
Matt price says
To those that think they can not quit.
I was an otr/oo for over 10 years, I used to love the job, but all of the over regulation made me sick. I made the decision to cut my losses, took a chappy job and went back to school for IT. Almost 6 years later I own my own IT company in Florida and make way better money then when I was a truck driver, 6 years and I never looked back.
I hope one day people learn to respect truckers again, until that day, I say you all should quit.
The government doesn’t have real time access to EOBR data. They have to do a log audit of an entire company, so it’s not like Big Brother, and I can tell you for a fact, the dispatch at bigger companies don’t pay that much attention to what exactly little old you is doing. I tested it by going out of my way every day to stop at the house (regional, so not more than 75 miles extra) and even when I turned up late because of it, no one noticed, let alone cared.
One good thing about it, is if you get pulled over, or pulled into some scales, and ask to see your logs, you just playing at this computer they nod and walk away.
Another good thing, say you don’t feel like driving right now. Turn your phone off, and send a message. If they try to push you to drive when you think it would be unsafe, that’s illegal and they know it. You call up OSHA, DOT and make a complaint with your lawsuit, and you’re going to own part of the company.
And these EOBRs break or blow fuses all the time, and then you’re back on paper. Just saying…
EXACTLY. I can tell you, I have been on the other side, and NO ONE really looks at this stuff unless the driver is really screwing up. In my industry, we have to keep schedules — you do that and no one bugs you.
And you’re also DEAD-ON about the scales. They ask and when you say you have a computer log, they always say “Get out of here” I am like “No wait, I’ll pull it right up.” Cop: “Get out of here now” Me: No, it’s really easy, let me show you.” Cop “Get out of here RIGHT NOW!!” Me: “Okay, bye.” 🙂 Always.
Don’t have problems really w/ the blowing fuse thing, occasionally you have to reboot. Biggest problem is drivers forgetting to log off or logging in too early and not having their 10 hours off.
Oh well, it will be fun. I have to smile at all these guys saying they’ll quit. Okay. More will come. However, our profession is an aging one — look at how old most drivers are. And yet, many let companies treat them like garbage. WHY do shippers get to treat drivers this way? It needs to be if a driver is detained more than an hour, they have to start paying THE DRIVER $50. per hour detention pay, not the company. Oh, and by paying by-the-HOUR, instead of this antiquated, backwards, slave days crap of by-the-mile, drivers COULD (and should) get overtime. Ooooh, bad me for sayin’ that.
This ain’t the 60’s and 70’s anymore. Drivers should be paid by-the-hour and be treated professionally. In the same token though, drivers need to stop driving ignorantly. Idiots who run 10 feet off of a four wheeler’s rear end need to be put out to pasture or to working at McDonald’s or pumping out portajohns or something… I am tired of these unsafe idiots making my profession look bad. ☠
Jim T says
Would you be willing to take a week of vacation to show yours upport for an hourly wage ?
Depends on where you’re pulling at and what your expenses are. I would never get the equivalent amount of pay being paid per hour that I can make as being paid per mile. I’ve done the math and I’m way ahead. I gross 3900 a week give or take, and work 55 hours and that’s being liberal not conservative. I’m left with an easy 33 percent profit after all expenses, of which I am one as an S Corp. I get paid every week a set amount, five weeks paid vacation, 200.00 per day holiday pay, 401k self directed with 10k annual contribution profit sharing on top of my weekly contribution,health insurance for me and my wife, pay for dental and vision cash each time needed, fuel taxes, HVUT, truck insurance, Owner Occ Accident Insurance, maintenance, tires, fuel, pay my wife to do payroll, my daughter to do settlements, tolls, annual quickbooks payroll updates, and tax preparation software. This covers everything and I do all our taxes, and I have investment properties separate.
You do the math and tell me if I’d be better off hourly somewhere and what it would take per hour for me to do what I’m doing? Treat it like a business, manage like a business, and take care of it, and it will take care of you.
the equipment is available for EOBR data access. AT the POE/license plate webcam, wi-fi reporting from the EOBR. Get a Fleet Owners d-zine subscription. Free. see some of the middle and upper level trucking industry in the making and the reporting on the new tracking gear.
Don’t be naive about the future of trucking. It will eventually remove the driver from behind the wheel, as that is the highest overhead cost to trucking. Being done at Chinese mines for a while..100 trailer trains with a tech monitoring the driver, which, by the way , is a COMPUTER. Google has their driver-less cars in California. Trucks are next, although a tougher sell to to American general public’s anal safety concerns.
The 1%-ers don’t have enough power and money..EVER…. so get rid of us and life is greater for them.
Command and Control is the name of the game.
They may quit, but they’ll be back after the per mile rate is forced up because of (a) the reduced number of miles the triple logbookers are able to run and (b) the mass exile of drivers from the industry who won’t work for McDonald’s wages. It should only take a few months before shippers are freaking out.
I can assure you that at least this independent trucker will indeed hang up his driving hat! As hard as I run, there is no reasonably possible way for me to make the money I am now, especially when “big brother” is looking over my shoulder. You may have to depend on more foreigners coming into our country and driving on our roads and can’t read, write or speak a bit of English but also get a tax break for seven years, which they just transfer the name to a brother or other family member ending results of virtually never having to pay taxes !! If that ain’t a hell of a WELCOME TO AMERICA……. I don’t know what is.
A “really begrudging” sort of EOBR compliance is really not what anyone wants. It’s a fundamental concept of systems analysis (taught in the first week of the first course on the subject, in college) that in any system design, the analyst should “involve the user”, because any effort to shove a system designed by non-users down a user’s throat, will almost invariably result in the system being vomited back into the lap of it’s designer. Failure to consider user input during design, resulted in disgruntled users looking for ways to subvert even the best system designs – and government does not have a long reputation for producing good systems.
This is what happens when people are promoted into policy-making positions without being required to be trained or qualified for those positions. When all that a bureaucratic has to do to get promoted is stay on the payroll long enough, and kiss the ass of the right politicians, they wind up in jobs that they have no idea how to do – like hiring consultants to build health care marketplaces, or making up hours-of-service rules, or imposing electronic logging requirements.
These people are not qualified or trained to be system analysts. They aren’t qualified or trained to manage system analysts. They aren’t even qualified or trained to drive trucks. They should all be fired, and replaced by people who have proven that they know something about making the transportation industry work. Being the right minority at the right time, completing some online training videos, and getting promoted from the mailing room or typewriter because you managed to keep your job from your late teens into your 40’s or 50’s, is not proof that you know how to make anything work. Industry analysis is an actual skill, involving specific and relevant training and intellect, not the outcome of growing old in government bureaucracy.
We don’t just need to fire the elected officials – we need to get rid of the bureaucratic dead wood, too.
Mr. Yowler..well spoken.
truck driver fixes electrical system on tractor that was just signed off on DVIR that it is road worthy. 40 year maintenance head of company tells driver that he can’t take tractor out as windshield is being replaced…(driver has DVIR in hand showing windshield already replaced)been a month since driver reported that windshield is falling out, driving in Colorado blizzards at night with icicles forming on inside of windshield,due to windshield leaking, heavily into electrical system, meanwhile, safety manager lady comes out to driver,(she’s never driven no has cdl), reporting that regional manager of grocery account has given ataboy to driver for no service delays, and to company…driver points out power steering leak to ground, visible from 10 feet away, safety lady laughs, as driver also recounts electrical problems that driver repaired, costing 2 and 1/2 hour delay to client, and no pay to driver…also said company would not replace bald drive tires or 6 broken chains that were on the tractor at start of job….fifth wheel broken, as it will not tilt from horizontal position, forward or aft… mechanics know this,assigned and pointed out in this condition at assignment…mechanics replace air ride valve on frame after 15 hour breakdown, after driver and mountain road mechanic have to haywire suspension (company refused tow) to get truck back to yard…driver checks DVIR copy showing air ride fixed…driver checks and linkage is so rotten, falls to ground on being touched by driver….mechanic duct tapes linkage together for 500 mile round trip…..driver goes to Kenworth…gets proper parts and fixes in 15 minutes…
driver reports at assignment of tractor that clutch fan is in- operative and after three runs, fan fails…mechanic refuses to bring driver another tractor or repair on road…only 15 miles from company terminal…driver gets client to re-power load….client finally kicks driver from account as dispatcher…who has also never driven a truck…lies to client and tells client that driver is on his way to load with dispatch in hand…driver is actually in yard when dismissed by client, as tractor windshield is waiting to be installed and installer says must wait at least two hours for glue to dry, as he replaced the windshield with out replacing broken seal and added extra glue…therefore the delay…driver asks for another tractor…has dead batteries and then is assigned to another driver who refuses to take it to Nebraska on deadhead trailer drop.
36 year driver blackballed on DAC report by company….now can’t find job, with clean driving record and PSP/CSA report.
Industry gets rid of safe and competent driver and keeps owner of company,safety lady, dispatcher, all who have never driven or have a CDL….the owner is part of the blue-eyed indian family, and safety lady has connections with state patrol, and Colorado Motor Carriers ,
and maintenance heads is reported on company website as in industry for 40 years.
You can’t get rid of the rats unless you sink the ship and build a new one.
Driver 48 says
i still wonder myself if some if these higher ups or people in the corporate office got connections with the state patrols, i was on the verge of changing companys, sure enough i racked up 4 citations in a 20 day period, i believe my company knew i was quitting, and my truck got stolen (owner operator) , filed a claim, truck popped up 2 days later…
Cary Davis says
Guys and Gals-
At the end of the day we are all bound by regulations! It doesn’t matter what you do for a living. After reading every post on here to the time of my posting, I see a few positive comments, however most of them are negative. I don’t understand the negative part!
The over all complaint appears to be that you can’t drive the miles neccesary to make a living with a device monitoring your HOS. So if your read between the lines, that complaint translates into “Before I could fudge my log to make things work in my favor!”
The 14 hour clock and 11 hour rule is the same whether you do paper logs or on a electronic loggin device. the only thing that could possibly change is that on paper logs you either will follow the regulations because you have work eithics and integrity, or you won’t!
I for one, as a 25+ year driver who has since move into a Safety Director position know for a fact that drivers will run themselves to death and NOT stop when they need to… How many pee bottles have you seen on the road because drivers are to lazy to stop and use the restroom? That alone is a disgusting reminder that some drivers refuse to do the right thing.
As far as electronic logging devices go, they should actually save you time as they calculate to the minute instead of the quarter hour, so you actually save a little time by using them. It alerts you when you reach some threshold for driving, so that helps you pass roadside inspections with fewer violations. Which I might add also helps you owner operators look better in your CSA scores that are publicly viewable. Most law inforcement officer see a sticker on your truck stating :this vehicle uses on board recording device” and tend to not inspect you as frequently in that department.
During an FMCSA audit of your company, they inspectors LOVE that ability to quickly and easily finish their task on a system like this. If you can make the auditors job easier things nearly always go better for you! Take that to the bank!
Also as a reminder most of you that are talking about quitting, WHY? Because you have to follow rules? Aren’t you following the rules and being compliant already? If so, there should be no change in how your day to day duties and/or logging is conducted. I can see where drivers would be upset if they have grown accustomed to “fudging” there log books as the day proceeds to gain hours if they were in traffic or caught at a shippers dock for extended periods of time. But to me that comes with the job. It has been this way for a 100 years.
Anyone who isn’t willing to accept or adapt to change will eventually get passed by those who are. That applies to any business NOT just trucking.
I suggest everyone look at there definitions in 395.2 of “On-duty time” again, because an electronic logging device does nothing to change that. It only enforces it. Enjoy Change!
My Two Cents
Director of Safety
Albert Moving & Storage
William P McKechnie says
I totally agree with you. I have seen trucks in the ditch in the middle of the day with beautiful sunny weather, why? The driver fell asleep! If he was obeying the law, that couldn’t happen; at least as much. Some guys just aren’t cut out for the life.
Hello Mr Moving safety director.
Lets say, your guys are loading something somewhere and they have only 1 hr left on the electronic logs and they need to finish about 2 hrs of packing. So, they need to drive back to truck stop for about an Hr and back next day to finish that 1 hr, Please note, you cant park on street and you cant leave your truck overnight at the residence. So, what you do?! You charge the suctomer extra for going there and doing it?! right, because is 110% rule, you have 10% of $ to play with. Thats the worst case or you simply find an extra charge to trow it on the customer. and at the end of the day you OK. now imagine that just a truck driver guy, regular Joe got to the walmart warehouse Lets say 20 min late, and the guard check Idiot, usually, said, OK, we will take you in 1 hr, maybe, maybe not, or your broker will have to reschedule it lets say in 2 days from now, I AM NOT MAKING THIS UP!!! its reality with Walmart WRHS stuff, so, what you do?! And you have only 2 hrs on duty left.
Now MR moving safety guy tell me, what this driver should do? Dont forget , he is paid by the mi. and hes family is thee and his kids need food, same as house payments and medical bills. and he doesn’ have your moving flexibility on getting extra charge from the customer, YOU GET PAID!!! HE DOESN’T!!! So, now, in 2 days he is behind on his next load and he is rushing and taking grave drive so, its not normal for him and he crashes at 4:30 am in the ditch because simply he is not a night owl… SO, now you tell me… should he go extra 1 hr on books and everything is in order or he is forced in to the circumstances?
I do have moving authority as well, and we do stuff differently, but you are preaching from the different stand to he different people…
Where is most of the truckers, sun is not that sunny…
Its all comes down to the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$. If trucker gets paid well, HE WILL NEVER RUSH OR PUT IN DANGER ANYONE OR WILL BREAK THE HOS… PERIOD.
Sounds like u voted for Obama!! Change. Comes to the point where I don’t need a babysitter. The device is nothing more than a computerized babysitter. I’m a grown adult and don’t need a computer to help me out.
If you think either party gives a cuss about you then stick your head in a toilet. If you are not rich then no government and no party cares if you are alive or dead. The unsaid agreement between parties is split the population and keep us from uniting and changing the power structure.
an outhouse squirrel is smarter than your argument. 25 years as a driver and you forgot everything about driving! The Fair Labor Standards Act of ’38 says everything about the mentality and greed of those in power in this industry.
Your statement comes from an , ‘I got mine, too bad for you, you will do as I say’, greed and power mentality. See ‘Anne Ferro’ thumbing her nose at the congressman and telling him and his kind that FMCSA is not out to help the industry, but there to make it safe. You nor Anne Ferro get a ticket or lose your license, taking a nap at your desk and not doing your job.
Shipper/receivers, brokers and Congressman brought this situation to the driver, and drivers will let it continue, cause you don’t have the balls to stop this madness, and if you look further, vendors of the EOBR and wi-fi tracking equipment, who are rubbing their hands together in the pockets of the real criminals, who by the way are not the drivers( pushed past the limit to make a living)…if you are blind to that…see again Fair Labor Standards Act, with driver’s being classified as unskilled. No overtime…etc. 168 hours a week OTR and ALWAYS responsible for the load and rig, on duty or off…as long as the rig ain’t in the yard and the driver away from any required duty, including sleeping in the sleeper.
People like you say it’s been this way for 100 years…too bad for you drivers..cause Cary Davis has got his and now thinks he can preach to the choir.
Instead, you should be at government making sure that drivers on a time clock, paper log/EOBR or otherwise , are payed an hourly wage to be on the time clock , instead of this way out dated anachronism called mileage pay while being limited to when, how , where we work to make a living.
You bring socialized poison to drivers instead.
oh, yeah, you got yours…… I’ll take 10 dollars an hour at 168 hours a week…over you very weak and outdated argument. Up front and in cash……..
Michael R Myers says
Yes his post makes me want to gag
Robert Short says
Narrow minded focus on one issue. Moving on. Oppps never fixed parking. Opppps to expensive. Brokers do what. Oppps, shippers do what opps. Companies and bull shift lease agreements. Opppps. Companies not paying. Opppps. And Opppps I got better stuff to do than waist my time on this issue. I am no more than a p of steam in political systemthat treats us like slaves that are trash!!!!! 🙂
It does NOT matter what a stupid online poll says or what this study says to this subject. People change there mind EVERYDAY. There emotions change. People get sick of these politicians trying to regulate all us truckers when they need to regulate cars who get away with almost everything. People do need a paycheck yes your correct. But people have connections with people who own businesses or drive local or whatever. For you too think what they say in the poll is false is pretty stupid. Your politicians know NOTHING about trucking and never will. We become super independent and very diverse kind of people. Don’t think the money is holding us back. You fellow drivers need to take a stance towards this mumbo jumbo. It may not affect you but you need to help stop people who don’t drive trucks from making more decisions to control us. End of story
William P McKechnie says
I have an EOBR in my truck and I like it. Of course I run Canada only and the rules here are a heck of a lot better than the U.S. I can take 8 in the sleeper and split the rest of my 10 hours into 4 half hours if I want to. Or I can take two periods in the bunk as long as they total 10 or more and is not less than 2 at any one time. We do not have to take 1/2 hour off duty after 7.5 or whatever it is the Americans have to do. I like it because my dispatch are pig headed idiots who don’t care if I EVER sleep or get home. Now I can tell them to go online, check my HOS, and get someone else to do it!
Marsh I agree–truck drivers CAN”T agree on any one thing. That is correct and always will be. don’t know why cause we are all out there for the same thing. But then again the GOV DOESN’T have the right to dictate every little move we make and I believe we should stand up for that. It’s not just the trucking profession that the GOV is going after— it’s EVERYTHING. Look at your electric bill, phone bill and the price of fuel for just a couple things, all the taxes, surcharges and recovery charges on those bills. Talk about nickel dimen (sp?0) you to death. All the truck drivers out there that tailgate I don’t like, OR trying to force me down the road to drive faster. JUST PASS ME!! GEEZ! I can see why it has happened — a few rotten apples do spoil the whole batch. The only reason IF I do run illegal is because I stopped because I was tired and couldn’t get anywhere because of ALL THE RULES!! If the GOV would apply rules where they are NEEDED and not where they think they should be, things might be better. “We the people are suppose to be the Gov” open your eyes people, not for a while now!!!!!!!! Pretty scary!!! GOD HELP US!!!
As a 1 truck owner with my own authority elogs isn’t the final nail in the coffin .(yet) I will have to change my business model for sure . And less money will be the result. However the final nail will be if they raise minimum insurance rates to 4.4 million . I work Monday through Friday . I Make a really good living . I can move on from otr in a second and will if my profit margin falls to the point were I can no longer justify being away from my family . I have over 20 years with no tickeks no accidents no violation .Can the industry afford to loose responsible business owners like me and 10’s of thousands like us ?
Moving Forward says
No, in fact, both this industry and our country can’t afford that kind of loss. Can you imagine what that would do to the cost of goods being sold?
If I could afford to quit, I would have already. Rates are too low, costs are too high. After 28 years of driving; 18 years as an Owner/Operator … it’s not getting better. If I ever pay off the debt, I will find something else to do. The EOBR will cut into my revenue. First, I will have to pay for it. Second because I will have to reject loads for HOS compliance. ALL OF MY LOADS ARE TIME SENSITIVE.
I’m a big boy now. I know when I’m tired and need a nap. I don’t need computer to babysit me. I don’t want to die. If I am tired I pull over, even if my load is late. My safety is more important. I don’t need government to tell me that.
Ur tired pull over correct I’m an o/o as well I pay nothing ,co I’m leased to does that’s all bs all co know about hrs of service an they all know what would happen if your in a fatal or any wreck they two can be at fault as well feom the broker to the trucking co to the reciever think I’m lying. I know it can happen so if your 82 cent or 1.00 mile freight is worth think again
Steve Bell says
Come on….Stop pretending… when was the last time Drivers ever stood up for anything???
They just bend over and say “I’m sorry sir.”…
Try calling a Plumber or Electrician and try telling him to show up at 5:00 am and hang out until I get around to fitting you in…Maybe 9:00 or 10:00 if you are lucky).. and by the way …You are going to have to hang out outside in the cold and we don’t alloy you to use the bathroom…
And we are only going to pay you for the time that we think we should….Our business model just doesn’t allow for anything else…
The reason everyone talking bs cause there scared of them no one knows nothing about them just like I was I’m a 33 yr vet out here otr. At first its strange but its great not explaning why your late for pu/del. Its all in front of them another thing detention your time is documented to the time you pull in to a dock after 2 hrs our co starts detention. With a paper log your log can say anything your electronic log does it all I run 655 -710 a day depending on traffic construction etc … so you all saying you’ll quit don’t you’ll love them after u get used to them
This goes out to the truckers that push and or follow too close. Retire, quit. Find another job where you can’t endanger people’s lives. It’s our duty to drive safely, even if some 4 wheelers drive like idiots and have no idea what they’re doing. Cases of tired drivers building up over the years being involved in many deadly accidents is what has brought us to this. Rotten apples. The one bad kid and now we all must pay. There was a time when kids ran around, jumped and played inside moving cars. Big Brother can’t tell me I gotta restrain my kids for safety. That’s unAmerican. Puh-lease! Drivers are being banned from Walmart parking lots because a few just got to take a big ol poop on the hand that welcomed them by trashing their lots. Yeah, that’s real American. Litter and trash at truck stops. It’s my right to litter and I don’t care what my surroundings look like so I’ll make everybody else suffer. Love this country. Hell in a handbasket.
Mike simon says
The industry has changed 30 times over the past 30yrs.They have us all driving at the same time now,which is more dangerous then it ever was when you could split the book. They don’t enforce regulation thats already in place now. They have no regulation on brokers that use unsafe carriers and,cheapen rates. The definition of owner operator is broad and,questionable. If 71% quit so be it. Recruiting will find a way to persuade more fools to get into this,they always do!
How do they have us all running the same time? Last week I ran graveyard, this week decided to run days. Going back to nights tonight, theres nothing saying you have to run days. Dont run up against your 11 7 days a week and you dont have to worry about a 34. Time management is the key.
juliano trucking says
Hauling produce should be fun when EOBR will bring the lettuce from the field “on time, at the exact minute”.
Good luck, guys ( ! )
Well, which one did they poll. The good or the bad samples.
Everyone in this profession has something to complain about. Rules are reactive. Which means that too many people were hurt or killed from tired driver.
Does eobr prevent tired drivers from hitting the road. Maybe or maybe not.
Installing an eobr in a truck shows you are willing to obey the law.
Fighting it or quitting when mandatory is just showing that you are disagreeing and disregarding the law.
I always read about truck driver having a bad image to the public motorist yet no article is being produced on how companies are making an effort to respect the law or increasing safety on the road.
So let me ask mr OoIDa. What is your take on restoring this profession image? Are you willing to stop stupid idling, are you willing to ask your members to stop running 80mph on the new jersey turnpike, are you going to install safety devices on your members truck.
You know better to not ask for that kind of thing or your members will stop sending their dues.
Please , if truck driver image is to be restored , let’s show the public we can all safely share the public roads.
As far as regulating pay rate, shippers detention, etc.. just say no if you dont like something. Nobody is forcing you and if they do , have the balls to say no.
More Women have more balls than men in this profession.
Mike simon says
The image of a truck driver , is a regulation that they don’t enforce. Hard soles shoes, pants, not sweatpants,or short pants. These are regulations. Doing pre-trip inspections,using turn signals. These are all regulations.
If you think these computers are better for the industry you are brainwashed and might as well call those big companies master…. I been O/O for 2yrs leased on with jb for 3mnths and ran under that crap… Basically ran myself in the ground.. Eventually got authority and am able to make a steady profit… You company drivers dont know jack about O/O life, you might want to stop posting on here before big boss sees it and cuts your miles!!!
I have nothing but better pay and control over my small business. As a freelance driver, I have the power and control, not my customer. Everything is operated and conducted above board and legal. Case closed. I sleep with a clear conscience and I’m glad we have these computers. With Pre-Pass, and the electronic logs, I worry not about a random spur of the moment DOT Level II or Level III roadside inspection, much less being harassed at the POE scales. You guys are all fearful because you haven’t learned to use it to your favor. Best wishes. My contract wages will go up if you bail out. I’ll be happy to profit from your loss. I love our system. Cheers to the “old school”. Happy trails.
Mike simon says
Its not the people that comply that are of concern,its those that don’t. Onboard recorders are computers that can and,will be manipulated. They don’t enforce the regulations they currently have,what makes you think this is any different?
I have been an O/O for 10yrs and have ran paper log and EOBR. The EOBR rushes you to make it to a truck stop or where ever you need to be. I have had to stop 10 miles away and take a break before due to traffic it wheather or anything else that slows your progress. Then you can’t deliver on time and kill half a day with your clock running to get unloaded as a fit in at receiver. They make you go in sleeper when you are not tired make you run wide open when you are tired.You can’t use a split time on sleeper cause you can’t stay on property. So basically there is several problems besides EOBR’s. Like hours of service period. Watch the guys that work for UPS, FEDEX, USF, Averitt,and many more. Some good experienced drivers pushing the clock running 64-74 in 55 construction zones. Not that they are idiots but that’s what they are forced to do. I will not do it again. I have 3trks and I will get a driver and put in the one I drive as long as I can make enough on freight with the dead time involved. Otherwise, yes I’m done at that point and do something else. There are plenty of things people can do to make good money. If trucking is not one if them I do something else. The ones they do stay in the business are they one that are not savy enough to do other stuff.
Tony V says
71% will quit? Good, that is more freight for me. Fewer drivers, more freight = more demand which in the law of supply vs demands is more $$.
you sounds like a freshman…
there is NO such thing for broker as Supply and demand… they make 30-60% of total load and give you whats left and YOU will take it!!! Try to say to the broker, hey, there is only 10 trucks in the area and there is 50 loads out there, trust me, Broker will say hit the road, its all we have, no more penny more, but he will have at least 40% into his load… Been there done that, dont spoil your self with illusions!!! unless is NOBODY take no loads for a week!!!, than you say, Hey dude, I need 1.30 a mile or 1.50 call me when you have that number… simply!!!
but most of you brave “truckers” beginners have no clue how this works and chase the buck to make a buck…and BROKERS KNOW ABOUT IT!!!
WORK SMART!!! UNITE IN AREAS, SAY NO TO BROKERS, THEY WILL CALL BACK WITH HIGHER PRICE AND STILL SAY NO!!! THEY WILL CALL BACK AGAIN… THEN YOU GIVE THEM A FAVOR!!!
thats how it needs to be done…!
as of right now, you simply a slave of the brokers games…
No point in driving a truck anymore. They want obedient slaves, not people
Mike simon says
They have EPA regulations, all kinds of regulations guys, this is no reason to quit. If your not making money? Thats a reason to quit! Regulations don’t do nothing for me, like I said they enforce what they have now, so who cares. Its all propaganda,makes the public feel safer.
Mike simon says
They don’t enforce now. Is what I meant to say.
Marsh. You said you make a comfortable paycheck. How much is a comfortable paycheck to you? I assume you are an o/o??
Road champion says
20 years in I don’t care about the electronic laws being mandated, I run legal prior and will continue I think the main point is old school driver so don’t want the gift telling us what to do period gl drivers I am plaining to run for 20 more
I am not against e-logs when the driver and o/o pay goes up significantly. You pay me 25 dollars per hour, wait time and all my time included, plus food allowance and I will embrace your e-log thing. Until you do you will have to import Indian drivers from south Asia. Let’s see what that does for safety on the highways. After all these E-logs are meant to IMPROVE safety, right? 🙂
Brian White says
I’ve read lots of the comments here. What strikes me is that all the posts are basically talking about the same thing: TOO MUCH REGULATION OF THE DRIVERS.
I am on elogs and have been for 7 years 2 as independent. I was doing ok till the new hos rules came into effect. The new 34 hour rule and the 30 minute rest period. Now I can’t seem to make any money. I have driven truck for 25 years and I’m trying to get out now. No use being out here away from family if it doesn’t pay. Going back to local.
for you and me says
I would say Thompson is right for the most part. only drivers in there mid to late 60’s will retire. where I work. many drivers in there late 50’s have gotten off the road. and taken jobs in the office or shop. pretty much they are waiting on 63 so they can sign up for social security. thinking it will be enough to live on in retirement. the truth is. filing at 63 only gets them half of what would get if they file for social security at 66 or 67. this I have seen first hand. so for drivers planning an early retirement on uncle sam. it will be short lived. soon after, they will have to return to the work force to cover bills and costs that social security won’t cover. and with the health care law. medicare will only cover so much. the rest will either be out of pocket or will have to be covered by a health care plan. I know a lot of elderly people that are faced with this problem.
enough said there. for people in my age group 35 to 55 age. we are pretty much left with very few options. to young to retire. to broke to quit driving. and in an age to make getting employment in different career fields difficult. with nearly no jobs left in America. trucking is about the only thing left. so I think for the 71% that say they will quit over the e-log mandate. few then 10% will actually quit. the rest will just whine and cry over having to use eld’s for a while. and then they will shut up. and find something else to whine and cry about.
I am not an owner operator, but I can see why owner operators would be mad. I mean you bought the truck with your own money and now the government wants to put a device into your truck that you don’t want. Seems to me an invasion of privacy.
We have one company driver with a brain on here!!!
Road professor says
Not one. There is many of us out here. That’s why we stayed company drivers in the first place. Hah, hah…
Yes it is Charlie. It’s a surveillance device with no warrant. In order to obtain a warrant you must have cause. And it has to be based on an individual basis not the industry. I have had many DOT inspection and never failed a single one. So tell me why someone needs to moniter me. I feel the same about governors. Even if you govern at 75 I don’t likeit. It doesn’t mean I drive over 75,because I seldom run 70. That’s not the point. The point is iit’s my truck bought and paid for with private money. Govt doesn’t spend one nickel toward any of my equipment yet they feel they have the right to tell me how and when I can work. It’s total BS.
Okay all you wussies..let’s see you are still forced to play this no win game.. how do you like your truck driving you? I don’t sleep when I’m not tired ..I don’t eat when I’m not hungry.can’t you see this is how they use the ultimate control of you..Also trucking use to be a very lucrative business now it just sux..no matter what you do someone will make sure your paycheck is controlled also..so I simply stand my ground until the bitter end..35 yrs and maybe now when they finally get to screwing us all over I will hang these tattered shoes up and work on becoming famous..
We are all slaves to the rich, we are conditioned to get married and divorced and try again(all very expensive). Then we are programmed to want kids(extremely expensive) and we want our house and new cars(more expense all financed) plus a lifestyle where we have the money for most stupid impulse items(tv’s, computers, animals etc.) but we don’t actually have the money for any of it. Remember what I say when you slip that diamond ring on your fiance’s finger because society says so and so does she and then you have to put up with all the work B.S. to pay for it. We are keeping ourselves down by being kept in perpetual debt.
Im an O/O for a big company up here in Canada once they Enforce the Elogs. I think the majority of drivers that do anything outside of pin to pin or s scheduled lane, are going to get screwed. I do a switch up here and I don’t think it’s going to affect me at all but I feel for all the free run guys that go anywhere and every where.
More rules rules rules rules! Truly is getting annoying! It will be this then it will be something else. I’m willing to bet that in a few years we will here about lowering the driving hours to 10!
The funniest thing about e-logs is that government bureaucrats evidently have no clue just how laxly enforced the HOS regs are and how little they have anything to do with keeping our roads safe. It’s no wonder that 71% of independent drivers say they will refuse to play along with the nonsense.
I hear what everyone is saying, but consider this, EOBR’s added with speed limiters. Equal an hourly pay rate. Limit working time to 40 hours per week. Of course there would be a bonus if your able to speak English of .25 per hour.
One strike ends all the industry’s woes. Truck drivers deserve everything they get. We are the ones who let this stuff happen.
P.S. I wonder what the poor cattle haulers are going to do. No more 5,000+ mile weeks running solo LOL!
One strike ends all the industry’s woes. Truck drivers deserve what they get. It’s all me me me. I wonder what the cattle haulers are going to do. No more 5,000+ mile weeks driving solo LOL!
I’ve been leased to a company working on my 5th year. They were just phasing out paper logs and into Peoplenet when I started. I average around 2450 a week, am home every weekend with the exception of maybe a dozen times. I take off four weeks for vacation, and miss another week for personal type days. My annual revenue is 183k, not including detention, or quarterly incentive. I’ve received the incentive every quarter but one. Detention is never a problem as there is always proof of arrival and departure to the second.
I pull mainly liquid bulk hazmat, and some food grade. We have 100 trucks on our side, and probably 800 on the food grade liquid and dry bulk now. I don’t see why it would matter small or large, as I don’t believe the cost to implement is that cost prohibitive. Especially when it comes to compliance. I’ve had officers ask to see my logs and when I tell them I have elogs many don’t bother. The few that did just wanted to see my remaining time for day or week.
They don’t abuse the knowledge of being able to check your hours. They are so busy dispatching and scheduling, that they mainly leave it up to us. If they think we’re close they’ll check and talk it over with us to be sure we’re good with it. No place is perfect or system is perfect, however I believe I’ve got it pretty good and am happy to be where I am and doing what I do. Elogs being to the minute and not the quarter hour gives more time, not less. You just have to manage and plan the best you can. Will you get dinged once in a while due to traffic, an accident, weather, a shipper, etc., certainly. That happens with paper too. I run legal with a clear conscience for a company that takes good care of their equipment. Does it’s best to see that everyone that’s willing to work can make a decent living, and get home to be with family. You can change with the times or get left behind. Never say something doesn’t work till you’ve tried it and given it a fair chance to work.
Another prime example of how to make the driver work harder for less. America needs
DRIVERS……. Not pencil pushing morons , you fools will need your 6 figure incomes to try to figure out how you will eat, where you will get your supplies and how far you will need to go to get them. Hilarious … you clowns try to manage an industry, you can’t even manage your lives!
I don’t need a six figure income. I survived on far less in another business I ran for 15 years. I live well within my means. I enjoy what I do and even enjoy working on my truck to keep it up. What I don’t have the ability or tools to do, I gladly pay one of two local shops. That helps to support my local businessmen and economy. One thing I learned a long time ago, is that money is just a byproduct of that which you do well. Find something you enjoy, do it well, and if you get paid what you believe is fair and profitable for you, you can and will prosper.
Wild Bill says
I recently quit OTR with a crooked company….It took 3 years of looking for something local…Like many older drivers (58 yrs old) .clean MVR ,no CSA points ,no replays to my apps on line, in my mind it was my age…finally last week a response to an app. Now I’m running local in Ga, so far loving it. Home every night and weekends off…..OTR was wasn’t worth it any more
I feel the same way. I’d much prefer local work.
Mike simon says
Lets be honest, if the government was doing their job companies like landstar wouldn’t exist. 70% of their fleet is old and,does not comply with EPA regulations. They aren’t providing the same level of service a prime is providing.
show me the evidence for your stament
Mike simon says
You can’t operate in commerce without an MC# and, the government only issues them to incorporated businesses,they don’t view carriers with 1 truck any different then someone with 5000 trucks.The term owner/operator is stupid!
what we really are is a term the government calls statutory employees. I worked for a company once. That had to change the way we were paid. I’d love to see a lawyer take this fight on. Once an O/O signs a work contract he is obligated to haul for that company. That makes him at least a statutory employee.
P.S. this forces them to pay SS and Medicare taxes for you and they now have to give you access to medical ins.
I’d bet money that talk is cheap. You will be lucky if 2% of the 71% actually quit. Put the new unit in place, lets just see how the tough guys really act. They just don’t want to be put in a system that helps stop drivers from keeping 2 logs. Plus if they do all quit it will mean more jobs for the folks that need one. I’m quit sure the 7 or 8 larger carriers will love the new found business.
Exactly, everybody talks the talk on the forum. Nobody walks the walk.
My best guess, since I took my retirement last year and working for an excellent transporter and the new rules came so it kind of pushed ahead my decision on retirement because with that on board recorder the no drive at night would be impossible because after 10 hours off, you have to start driving regardless like a (robot).
I found that push to drive the appointments become tighter every time, and it is getting harder every day. So RETIREMENT became obvious and now with the weather changing and getting more difficult to meet appointment I feel very sad to see these new generation of OTR driver getting involved with on board log. Good luck guys.
Truck drivers deserve what we get. It’s all me me me. One strike ends all the industries woes. To bad for those poor cattle haulers. I guess they’ll be no more 5,000+ mile weeks LOL!
I have run elogs they have there advantages n disadvantages like anything else but I agree with most its the governments way to control us I grew up around truckin since I’m 14 I’m 35 and so much has changed and became utter B.S. that I lost the passion for driving anymore I’m close to just giving it up it ain’t the same there’s to many arrogant steering wheel holders what happened to things like the stand in 1979 obviously the trucker code vanished seems the ole heads n bull hollers n ppl that have respect for others n the rd is so far n few in between that the trucking industry to me has gone to shyt this is just my opinion stay safe out there
Powser joints says
I thought I would br against using Elogs, I have been running a elog for several months, I find it is better because in counts actual minutes, rather than rounding. I find I seem to get more miles per day covered. I like it would not want to run without it now. Cuts the debate between Drivers, dispatchers, and the safety department.
I will point out in the last what 8 years I have drove more tired than I did before that once they took away my 6and 5 split I only sleep for 5 hr anyways so tired from twiddling my thumbs before I can drive. I have speed more often in the last year to make that last couple miles up to get to my preplanned stop before the clock runs out in the last year since getting EOBR installed. Plus had stay stay up 45 min extra more times than I can count because I had to pull over find a place to park for 30 min and the whole run only took 8:15. O have always ran very close to legal but I find the rules I have to follow the harder it is to do this job as safe as I like and stay legal.
Smokey Searcy says
Can I add an important 2 cents worth, as I’ve seen this before?:
I was a Military then Commercial Pilot covering 42 years. 15 years ago the same issue came up, and all the pilots threatened to quit Airline Transport flying.
Every turn slightly past limits, startup times, landing times, GPS Recording, Flight data, on top of the already present Cockpit Voice Recorder, all of it was not only recorded but transmitted.
When it came in you know what happened? A few Dinosaurs who weren’t following guidelines in the first place left, other than that we all stayed and learned to live with it.
In one case a passenger made accusations against the crew performance and the Data cleared us.
From that day on (To include my OTR Driving now) I comply with all regs and drive 100% LEGAL.
Fight the gov and you end up hauling logs in some swampy area where no one cares.
Mike simon says
Today you are either contract labor or, a carrier. Government holds carriers responsible for meeting mandates. Most of these regulations they are enforcing today,have been on the books for years. A driver shall be fit, on the books for years,carriers hire anybody so now the doctors are responsible. Hard soles shoes and, loose fitting clothing on the books for years. If your contract the corporation your leased to will be who they go to do EPA mandates.
Bilbo Baggins says
Why does everyone say that if you quit you”ll end up working at Mc Donalds. Are you too good for Burger King?
Joe Skeptical says
Whether more than 2/3 of truckers say they’ll quit is beside the point. Costs and regulation are going up – not down – and it’s not making business more profitable. Soon, only the big companies will remain and what will they do? You already know it – they’ll put the independent freight broker out of business and cooperate among themselves to drive freight prices higher. There will no longer be an O/O OTR and the US Dept of Labor will continue paying the big companies thousands and thousands to “train” any warm body that can be stuffed behind the wheel. Only a small percentage will hang around, and they’ll be pressured like a screw to become a “lease operator”.
I am convinced the big companies are bribing the regulators to create the above conditions, such as forcing EOBR devices onto every truck, to reduce competition.
Kent smith says
I’m not a owner operator myself and I have run with the elb it sucks I lost money because my hours were cut in the oil field it real doesn’t work in this business and as someone already stated I don’t sleep or eat when a machine tells me to elb’s may work in some application’s but not in local business
Mike Smiley says
I’ve been on electronic logs for two years now and wouldn’t dream of going back… when I tell dispatch I can’t run a load and can back it up with the logs they quit nagging me to work past my 14. Those drivers who say they’ll quit? Let ’em… if the they THINK they have violate the HOS rules to make a check, we don’t need ’em or want ’em on the highway driving tired. Get real… when EVERYONE has to play by the same rules the cheap freight will slack up as there won’t be people willing to waste good hours on bad freight.
The Night Stalker says
I have driven since 1986 right out of high school and I drove farm stuff (if you never have you can’t relate) but anyways I was trucker up till 2001 when they bombed the towers In New York and drove a flat bed, grain dump, lowboy, stupid crane, cement those are fun huh? dump truck and dump trailers I have driven just about all’ even tank, and double pups (HATE THOSE) took a 13 yr break and I drive a van now’ and these stupid BIG WIG companies wanted me to do a refresher course AHAHAHAHAHA!!! is what I said, I drive for a mom and pop getting 42 cents a mile and all was good till this year then lost my Florida and SC runs I don’t have the EOBR I just throw my log book in the sleeper and take off ;since I had my house fire and lost everything I ever worked for;… I don’t give a f&^k about weigh stations or logs or any of that stupid stuff’ and I’ve been ding this for 3yrs; the secret to never getting caught is; RUN AT NIGHT ALWAYS’ have a BIBLE visible through the front window at the weigh station’ SEAT BELT on, radio off; flashers a going’ headlights on, your window down, do the speed limit and STOP at the stop sign before going on the scale always; make sure you always DO THE SPEED LIMIT (ALWAYS) IT ALWAYS WILL START BEFORE YOU SLIDE UNDER THE FIRST E-Z PASS monitor so be sure your doing the speed limit they have a radar timer in there between the overhangs, never ever look in the station just look in the mirror at the wheels and no muss no fuss be sure you do the SPEED LIMIT past the second overhang if not BUSTED……….AHAHAHAHA! I’ve been doing it this way for 3yrs..ahahahah!!! I’m homeless in a truck and I don’t care about logs and crap I sleep when I want and I run as hard as I want when they give me the EOBR I will quit and be a machinist or something, SCREW EM’ I do what I want! that’s why I’m a OTR trucker, maybe someday I will have it back; …OH WAIT! OBAMA CARE going to suck the money out of my pocket too HAHAHAHA!! THERES NO WAY OUT …you see so make the money you can and GET OUT! let the illegals do it WHO CARES I still will have food at the store no matter who brings it………sad part is;;;; I love being a trucker and DAM PROUD OF IT TOO! but the sacrifice is just not worth the money anymore……..too depressing when you see the pay your getting ,hmmmmm might try ice road trucking I HAVE NOTHING TO LOSE ….AHAHAHAHAH!!!…………..good luck fella’s may the good LORD watch out for ya’…….may GOD BLESS YA’
Getting my own authority now and any one man trucking companies running a DOT acceptable EOB please let me know here…. Thanks!
Stan Case says
I have read some very interesting comments posted hear, and in my opinion settling is not my norm of personal practice… And I personal don’t like to be threatened by insurance company’s who are trying mandate the EOBR for every one, once again there are company’s that may benefit from such a change and I am certain a great deal of many independents and small business that will not… The only way to even bring this into a real solution of resolve is to address this issue’s by way of petition and signitures….
Joe Bartman says
Wow. You Nancy’s really are at your most chatty when you’re arguing. All this hot air energy and not-A-one of you will join together in a concerted effort to rebuke these lawmakers. It’s a shame, really. I find it extraordinarily humorous that in one thought, majority of you cry out for change and unity, then in the very same comment, exclude yourself from uniting by infighting with one another. You don’t see the people who are making these laws acting like that, they’ve got you all by the short ones when they see behavior like this, fighting amongst yourselves.
I suppose I drive for one of the big six, and can shed light on what its like to drive on eobr. Now, I came out of the oilfield, so I know the joys of paper logs as well. Both have pluses and minuses. However, I like the eobr more. Why? Simply because law enforcement cant argue with it. Its right there, black and white. Hell, half the time I reach for the Qualcomm and they say dont bother. Its not that bad. There’s still plenty of tricks to use to keep extra time on it, the only thing you cant fool is your 14. As far as a slave goes, I pick my routes, fuel stops, break times, when and where I stop, how much fuel to put on, where the service is done, etc etc etc. Im paid well per mile, I say when its time to go home and when im ready to run / ready for dispatch, what areas of the country I want to be in, and I really dont have any involvement from my dispatcher unless there’s an issue or hes bored and wants to preplan some moves for the week. You know, come to think of it, the only thing out of my control is the customers I go to and the payment on the truck. Its a tough life being a company driver I tell ya. I also run, I dont dick around and cry about everything, so maybe thats why ive got such a decent deal goin over here.
Now on the flip side the inability to break up the 14 is going to bite me, and all of us in the ass big on eobrs. Thats what we all need to be focusing on, having them add a shipper/receiver off duty like oilfields off duty well site exemption. As far as detention goes, think of how easy it is to prove detention of off something that proves right where your rig is, down to a couple feet and a cole second interval. Problem solved there. Let them mandate them, then lets use them to our advantage to get the proper pay and flexible hrs of service rules we need to keep this country rolling. And another thing, we’re all in this shit together, company, lease, and o/op. Lets start acting like it. Weve got some real enemies to be focused on with the onslaught of all this fmcsa ( raising ins premiums, eobrs, speed limiters, etc), carb, illegal trucks coming across the borders, and depending on how bad it gets , the forigen worker situations. Right now we have congressional attention, we don’t have to agree on every last detail, but lets at least get the basic message across to them while we can. Be safe yall
People should know by now, that when Big Brother spouts “safety”, it is only a justification for extricating more Revenue from and Control over the subjects–you.
The new HOS rules are good for some, not so good for others. But to mandate another Big Brother device to ensure the slaves toe the line, is not beneficial, overall. Some, who don’t mind being led by the nose are quite content to play the game, to ensure they don’t run afoul of the myriad of rules “I don’t want to get into trouble”. Others, who, not necessarily rebellious, would like to retain a modicum of freedom in their daily activities, without the constant aggravation of the All Seeing Eye of the Masonic-based government riding herd on them.
But, thanks to the politically-correct efforts of large trucking firms (I drive for one of them) who readily acquiesce to Big Brother’s demands , the independents will be further squeezed, until they “join the crowd”, or quit in disgust and frustration. That, unfortunately, will provide more work for the large firms, who will further perpetuate Big Brother’s efforts to consolidate control over us.
It’s really a no-win situation for all, except those in power.
Way to much intrusion in way too many industries anymore. Sometimes it’s safer to adjust a logbook than not. Suppose I’m approaching a major city like NYC at rush hour. Wouldn’t it besafer to park, catch a nap and drive after the traffic dies down? The current regs don’t allow any flexibility for these types of situations. Even though it’s much safer and more efficient to do so. Here’s a scenario for you Anne. Imagine you’re commuting into DC at 6am. The speed limit is 65 but everyone is running 75-80. What is safer ? Drive 65 and watch as drivers kill themselves trying to get around you?. Getting cut off every two minutes?..or fall into a lane and go with the flow. It just makes since to do the latter. But oh wait a minute. You’re “running illegal”.,You’re breaking “the law”. It is more dangerous to follow the law than not in this situation. What about that stop sign you don’t stop completely for. Whoops..you just broke the law again. All I’m saying is where is common sense anymore ? This is supposed to be a free country. And also governing trucks at 65,is BS too. I read some guys writing about that. My truck is ungoverned and will run 100+ but I never run over 68..ever ..Even when out west. Having said that I still wouldn’t agree even if they govern at 70.,too much regulation.
THE WHOLE DOT AND FMCSR IS A CRUEL JOKE ON HARD WORKING AMERICANS WHO ARE THE MOST OVER REGULATED, OVER BURDENED WORKERS IN ANY INDUSTRY.
LETS SEE THEM TRY THIS STUPID SHIT ON TRAVELLING SALESMEN, FACTORY WORKERS, SHOPKEEPERS…
MAYBE EVERY WORKING PERSON IN THE US SHOULD HAVE TO COMPLY WITH THIS KIND OF CRAP. LETS INSTALL EOBRS ON ALL PASSENGER CARS, SO BIG BROTHER CAN REGULATE THE SHIT OUT OF EVERYONE
PARK THEM IN DOWNTOWN CHICAGO AND SEE HOW LONG IT TAKES TO GET RID OF THESE STUPID PROPOSED REGULATIONS.
TIME FOR US ALL TO MOVE TO CANADA.
Just another way the larger companies are pushing legislation and rulings to put the small guy out of business. Our government doesn’t give a flying fart about the individual anymore. Just the big political donors.
There is not any statistical backing for the mandate, nor a positive cost analyst so why else are we mandating them?
Pro Truck Driver says
What ever happen to the America dream.
1. Start a business and make money fast.
2. Get married and live happier ever after.
3. Buy a nice home to live in.
4. Watch your kids grow-up and send them to college.
5. I’m still waiting. Lol, Col, (crying out loud)!
These laws are created by the same people that say ….Farming is easy, when their plow is a pencil and their office is 1000 miles from a cornfield!! Just like the mandatory CDL License that removed some great drivers from the industry simply because they couldn’t read well, but kept a bunch of lazy bone heads on the road. And of course, we have all the boneheads wearing tinfoil hats that follow behind the Government encouraging all of it. This one will bite them in the butt.
We the have a big issue ! most of this people that are trying to make changes have never been behind the wheel nor deal with the conditions that we ( OTR Driver ) face out there, where food is bad expensive and so unhealthy ! to me a former Computer Tech , OTR represents hypertension , cholesterol , blindness, and etc.. but lets face it change is good so we have to work together to make a positive change, because the way I see how this works is like this
with the OEBR , thus is people that don’t have family of their own nor set goals aside , and the reason been am typing this is for the following research : I have spoke to several drivers running with the OEBR and lots of this people are making less than 600 and sometimes 760 dollar per week ! oh yeah this means to me if you make six hundred or 780 / 168 __= 4.52 dollar per hour been away from home risking your life and the other , or your driving license if you make a mistake ! at this point I think a local job for the minimum wage sounds a lot better ,
Here is somethine I’ll bet you didn’t know,I didn’t either,but found out the hard way…alomg with my fellow drivers at the time. I drove for an expediting company…as gone for weeks at a time. The owner worked us our 70hrs,,,,but paid the drivers for 40. The drivers went to the labor board with a complaint,and learned ” That,because of part of employee’s paycheck was due to recieving a percentage of the load,a well as part paid baised on milage driven” this was legal.
I, for one, do not believe 71% of O/O will quit, because they owe too much on the truck they are driving, and there is too much money to be made or they would have already quit. What I do believe is, O/O are threatening to quit in order to influence the government and try to have the law reversed. Electronic logs will not cause anyone to lose money, but it will cause them to learn time management. It is my opinion the electronic logs are not where the concern should be, but instead when the max speed limit, for commercial vehicles, becomes 65 mph in all states. That is when loads will be late, if not properly dispatched, and the burden will be placed, once again, on the shoulders of the driver. O/O and other drivers need to stop looking at the little pieces and start looking at the entire package. It is my opinion the entire package will save lives, and give this industry a positive name. But, it will take change, and as humans we naturally hate change.
Some of you really think E – logs will make the industry safer… REALLY??? What will you do when you run out of hours waiting on a shipper or receiver and get told “you can’t stay here overnight, get of the property” in bad neighborhood. What about all the rest areas and truckstops that start get packed around 6pm??? What if you have a breakdown, accident, roadside inspection, traffic jams, road construction and sudden adverse weather??? What if you get sick??? What if you’re still tired after 10 hours off duty???
Companies can edit ANYTHING on e logs even while you’re driving. You can edit everything EXCEPT the drive line. Now DOT officers are checking all through your e logs, hours on duty, days on duty and etc.when they inspect your qualcomm.
What’s more, you must keep paper logs with you when the qualcomm goes down…..and they will GO DOWN.
My main issue I have that no one is talking about on here is e logs being used to harass drivers. This is extremely true. On my last job I was constantly harassed. They felt it was OK to mistreat and talk to me any kind of way. They kept blowing up my phone telling me to take an 8 hour break instead of a 10 hour break for the sake of a load regardless of how tired I was.
When I got back to the terminal, I cleaned out my truck, used the company car to take all my shit to the hotel, got a rental vehicle and turned in my keys and quit.
I’m now with company that runs paper logs. E – logs are unrealistic and dangerous. Anne Ferro needs to be fired. The whole industry should stay calling for her removal and the repellent of ALL her policies.
In case you don’t know who she is…She’s in charge of the FMCSA who brought you things like CSA2010, stupid HOS rules on July 1, 2013 and conducted a “worthless” study in which now there is an outcry for the GAO to intervene.
Anne Ferro has NEVER DRIVEN A TRUCK OR ANY COMMERCIAL MOTOR VEHICLE IN HER LIFE. She did ride for two days with an owner operator but still won’t repeal any of her stupid rules she’s enacted.
ALL TRUCKERS AND THE ENTIRE INDUSTRY MUST UNITE AND CALL FOR HER REMOVAL, REPEALMENT OF ALL HER POLICIES AND REMOVAL OF THOSE WHO
WANT TO KEEP HER IN HER 165,000 a year position.
Anne Ferro is stone cold stupid and wilfully ignorant to the entire trucking industry. There are rhinos circulating that she is being paid under the table by some big name carriers and organizations that want her to press things like mandatory E – logs so they can make more profit…. Definitely some thing that needs to be investigated!!!!
Pardon my errors because I didn’t proofread.
Barbara Blizzard says
I’ve been driving since 1987. I’ve hung up my hat already. I was stopped by a trooper in Indiana and written up for a missing BOL # on 1 of the log pages they are legally able to review. 7 points in the fatigue category!, when an open container is only 3 or 4 points. WHAT??? New “drivers” are not being trained properly, or being turned away for lack of skill, talent or common sense. Since the automatic transmission they will give the job to anyone regardless of competence. If they have a driver shortage maybe they should cut back on the amount of loads they “promise to cover” to the shippers they contract to haul for with their cheap rates. Produce quality drivers not quantity! These large companies have to be self insured to be able to stay in business with the amount of wrecks their trucks are involved in on a daily basis. Oh and if y’all think an hourly rate is the way to go, do the math. 14 hours X 5 days = 70 hours 70 hours X $7.25 minimum wage is $507.50 of which your lucky to take home around $400.00. For living in a truck, and all the expenses that go with it? that’s a slap in the face! I’ve booked loads, their not all cheap. The companies are ripping off the drivers out there. And the new drivers are being promised much, and receiving little. It’s sad all the way around.
im a single truck carrier. Stupid electronic log would cost me a lot of money to implement and give me no kick back benefit. Why don’t government pay for the financial cost/loss carriers would incur due to electronic logs. Government forces us to accept all losses. I hope these feds all get fired soon. Im 26, nothing to do with me being old and ready for early retirement.
and whats so bad about old truck drivers. An old truck driver is worth 3 noobs. Most accidents are caused by the youngsters not the old experienced ones. While economy is hurt big by lack of truck drivers they say its cool if we lose our biggest bearing – old experienced truck drivers. Yeah these feds would really help out that over 100% turnover in truck driver workforce. Uninformed office fed employees
They’ll quit. I’ll quit. I went into business for myself for the control, for the freedom. EOBR takes control/freedom away. I’m not shutting down for ten hours or maybe 34 hours when I am an hour from my house because the government thinks it’s the only way for me to be safe. If EOBR goes through, it will be a mess for many.
Paul Buzzard says
I have been in this business for 33 yrs. , I would like to say I have seen a lot of good and specifically alot of bad some things made do improve the industry but they are way different parts of the industry that a lot of people don’t see there are not just box vans and reefers out there , all in all there is many types of out fits out there and many types of drivers at what works best for them , what I am really trying to say is y is The driving community is putting up with letting big corporations dictate on what drivers can and cannot do rather than go ahead and make things better for the driver that has to leave there family for weeks on end I do believe in better regulations but not a 6 week course of driver education and throwing them out there and calling them a truck driver where is the regulation on that I am not for eobrs I think that there is enough regulations now I am one that thinks that if you slow the cars down and give better drivers education could make better drivers in a whole for everybody involved
This won’t fix trucking either so when you think it screwed up just look at the people who say this will fix it or make it safer or better or etc. Most log book violation are for not for people running 4000 thousand miles a week it for going over on your 70 ot not taking a break. These guy who claim everyone will staighten up and fly right are just crumgendons who don’t like to work anyway and if your a hard runner well they look bad.
I feel it should be a option for company’s that are running out of control. As for me I think it’s more of a control of time by company’s to get the most out of workers. Hooked on phonics for people who can’t use logs for some or time to get on welfare or disability for some. My point is give people a choses don’t ram it down peoples throat. Thanks for reading this be safe.
Adam amatti says
Im not old. 38 years old trucking since I was 30 and owner op lst 4 years. I sold my truck last month and went back to working as a service manager simply because once I switched to elogs I was literally making 50-60% of wht I used to.
Not because I cheated before but because before if the shipper or recievet screwed me so I could at least adjust the time I wasted sitting. Now that isn’t possible and you either drive half asleep or else loads late.
No thanks. Saw far too many trucks wrecking to want to be around half asleep zombies and risk dying on the road for less than what I can make at home.
Not to mention I love being home with the family and in my bed nightly.
Good luck to the rest of you owner ops that are being lied into believing that you will still make the same after adjusting. I did it for 8 months and it only got worst.
These guys don’t understand that you’ll be sitting waisting time on the ELDs nobody wants to pay drivers for sitting it’s said as if we don’t receive the same rights as those at a warehouse job the get paid for every second where is our pay Truckers are treated like scum everything about the ELDs is bad very bad the economy will tank.
Just a nobody says
People need to realize that a one size fits all deal won’t work. I can guarantee you that the ELD will not work for everyone. Might work for a refer or flatbed driver who runs the eastern part of the country. But out here in the west in all the mountains it just will not work
A ELD, what’s the difference. I drove for a carrier out of La Crosse, WI before they went out of business. We had Time stamped Tach cards, tach recorders in the trucks. Watched our road speed, rpms drive time. mandatory break, tire checks and everything. this stuff was around in the 60’s. Down in Chicago at the break terminal on 103rd and Harlem we had to time stamp inbound and outbound have pay sheets signed for! there was no way we could run wild with out the company not catching you. If people drive and log it the way you do it! They never would have made this mandate.
William Boahn says
I lost a $3000 load. Would take 40 minutes too long. We are screwed and get used to sitting even when you’re wide awake. Dumb as hell and nothing will save lives and increase safety like high wages and thorough vetting of a person’s abilities before trucking school. Stupid people are unsafe even when we’ll rested.
Keith Morton says
What everyone fails to understand is. Elog will cause more accidents. It forces drivers to drive faster and more wrecklesly just to bear the clock. Sure drivers may end up with more loads. Safe driving takes more time than wreckless driving. A more alert driver is one that stops every now and then calms himself down eats a little snack. The worst driver is one who is more concerned with beating the clock than driving safe and being relaxed all day than being all tensed. Being tensed all day causes night blood pressure and strokes
Keith Morton says
What everyone fails to understand is. Elog will cause more accidents. It forces drivers to drive faster and more wrecklesly just to beat the clock. Sure drivers may end up with more loads. Safe driving takes more time than wreckless driving. A more alert driver is one that stops every now and then calms himself down eats a little snack. The worst driver is one who is more concerned with beating the clock than driving safe and being relaxed all day than being all tensed. Being tensed all day causes high blood pressure and strokes
Keith Morton says
These laws were not written for our safety but for causing more accidents. Anyone who thinks racing against a clock will mean safer driving. Is a nut. Thy want to put trucks off the road to save the railroad. That is what’s behind the 14 hour rule. Limit the freight we haul. In the process put more trucking companies out of business. They want to cause more accidents so the public will force trucks off the road.
I understand agenda behind electronic logs absolutely not about safety of the pulic at all. They created “timer”, and applied that “timer” on people only for more control.
Drivers are not office or warehouse workers. Yes caution and safety aware driver stops more often, checks equipment and if tired takes brakes to rest and work safely. With electronic control – drivers pushing to the limits ignoring speed, safety. Electronic control doesn’t allow driver take a nap for 1-2 hours without loosing time/money. Electronic control push people to rush against time. Definitely we already see accidents among drivers of large companies especially during winter time on icy roads.
People who stands behind it are: high executives of large trucking companies, politicians and other. They never drove truck. Real agenda I understand behind it clear:
1) Create artificial not logical restrictions on smaller trucking companies / oo, pushing them out of business.
2) Statstics of accidents will rise thus creating grounds in further years for all public to push for selfdriven trucks. They will have statistics driver vs robot. Later to kick out drivers who will be still in the industry.
3) Keep market for themselves
If they would care about safety of public they would create more rest areas or even parking spaces for drivers to stop and rest.
The opposite is visible everywhere “NO PARKING ANYTIME” throughout whole country.
I see it is a intermittent step until trucks/robots will take over all drivers.
Large companies drivers usually have no motto anyway. As soon robots will be there they will fired without any problems.
What is the problem?? With social media and a will to truly change and not just b*tch about it why don’t we strike for 3-7days all of our grievances will be met! Will would probably even get a 8hour break reinstated and still keep 11hour drive time! ELD would become an option, brokers will have to pay more no more cheap rates out of the East which is a huge scam! We would get paid soon as we wait at shippers no more “free time” who works for free anyway except drivers???? These things along with a plethora of others would be addressed and dealt with! I actually thought Trump would have done away with this Obama era mess he never even tweeted about it. I hope he can and will do something. Nevertheless drivers we truly need to strike and quit being treated like 3rd class citizens!!
I’ve been trucking for 12 years and just sold out and looking for a new job.Always new rules by someone who now’s nothing about trucking,the ones that need to be monitored are shippers and receivers and of course crooked brokers! Freight I hauled last year is several hundred less this year I’m done 12 years their has got to be better out here for me and mine.I told a guy the other day after 12 years of Trucking I’ve finally graduated and learned how to add.Low rates,high Inc, maintenance, factoring fees,their is hardly anything left to make a livein.Good look out their but I’m done with this headache and by the way it is gone as soon as I signed the title away and closed my load boards.