Natural Gas Trucks?

Discussion in 'Questions To Truckers From The General Public' started by Low-Tech, Apr 23, 2011.

  1. Low-Tech

    Low-Tech Bobtail Member

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    Apr 23, 2011
    Toronto, ON
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    Hi everyone,

    This is my first post so excuse me if I sound a little ignorant of trucking (be it the lifestyle or the industry). I signed up to ask the opinions of drivers on an issue I've been reading a thinking quite a bit about lately: natural gas trucks. These range from the light-duty all the way to 18 wheeler tractor trailers.

    With the talk of things like the Nat Gas Act in Congress and the Pickens plan being so widely publicized, I thought this would be a good time to hear from the real people who work in the trucking industry.

    In general, do you think natural gas trucks will play a big role in the trucking industry within the next 3-5 years? I'd love it if you could give me some colour as to what shapes your opinion on the matter (i.e. what experiences make you believe nat gas trucks will/will not be significant).

    I appreciate all answers, thank you for taking the time!
     
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  3. Mr Ed

    Mr Ed Road Train Member

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    When natural gas pickups came out years ago,we bought a few to try them out.They were getting mileage so bad that we were afraid of going any distance with them.
    Now,a lot of buses run on natural gas around here.I have never seen LNG refueling stations outside of the local Gas Company.Maybe years from now it might be more common especially since we have an abundance of natural gas in this country.
     
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  4. lostNfound

    lostNfound Road Train Member

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    The energy density of LNG is about 60-65% of diesel so it is impractical and uneconomic for long-haul and/or energy intensive applications. It is okay for regional or local applications and/or in areas where emissions are a primary concern.
     
  5. Low-Tech

    Low-Tech Bobtail Member

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    Apr 23, 2011
    Toronto, ON
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    Great, thank you very much both of you. On a follow up question, are heavy duty trucks mostly used for long hauls or can they also be used as "regional or local applications"? In other words would it be practical to have natural gas heavy duty trucks even with the low energy density of LNG, if those trucks were used regionally? I ask because I read that Heckmann, a water services company, ordered 200 LNG heavy duty trucks to service natural gas wells. This obviously sounds like it's used in a centralized location but at the same time seems like it would be quite energy intensive. Your thoughts?
     
  6. Studebaker Hawk

    Studebaker Hawk Road Train Member

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    The application ( use of the truck) in question is all important. At the moment LNG is not widely available and weight/tank location penalties rule out many applications. The company you cite above, a natural gas service company has a built in incentive to positives outweigh negatives for them. In my estimation probably 40-50% of the diesel powered vehicles could switch to LNG, but costs are still the determining factor.
     
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  7. Sportster2000

    Sportster2000 Road Train Member

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    I believe that there is a future in it. Manufactures are investing heavily in it. Some buses are already CNG. The only problem would be fueling. You can get the same horsepower out of CNG that you could diesel to an extent. Your not going to find a 600 hp on road CNG, but you will find a 400-450 hp CNG OTR truck. I have driven a few and worked on a few. I know some trucking companies are looking into getting CNG trucks.
     
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  8. GasHauler

    GasHauler Master FMCSA Interpreter

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    You're right the fueling is the problem. Can you look at the cost to switch over to CNG at truck stops? It would take many many years to even show a break even investment. So where is the incentive to make this happen? The newer trucks are about the same in emissions so why sould a company go out and invest in a change over to where they won't see a profit for 10 years or so? There would have to be a pay-back to the companies like the breaks the companies got to blend ethanol with gasoline. It sounds good but it will never happen.
     
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  9. Low-Tech

    Low-Tech Bobtail Member

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    Apr 23, 2011
    Toronto, ON
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    Great, this is giving me a fresh look at some of the downfalls of this tech. I can see that refueling infrastructure would be a problem and that there will probably have to be incentives from government to set it up. Yet with the natural gas supply increasing it seems the nat gas E&P companies might have a go and try funding some of the early fueling stations. But from what I gather from here, the fuel costs of LNG compared to diesel are pretty much about the same once considering mileage. Given that these trucks cost more and have little fueling infrastructure I can see why it hasn't already happened yet.
    Given current economics of LNG costs vs diesel what's the estimated time required to break even on the investment? What would be a acceptable break even timeline for trucking companies (i.e. for them to buy these trucks)? I think we're in a catch 22 in that trucking companies don't want to buy due to lack of infrastructure and stations won't accommodate because there's a lack of a market. It will indeed require government action (via subsidies) to set this thing in motion, which is probably why Pickens is pushing it so hard.
    You think the payoff period will decrease from, say the current estimate ~10 years, to something more palatable if the government gives tax credits on the trucks? We're talking about credits equal to difference in price between an LNG truck and a conventional diesel truck ($75,000/heavy duty truck).
    Again thanks to everyone who replied.
     
  10. Hardlyevr

    Hardlyevr Road Train Member

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    Schwan food delivery has used either LNG or CNG trucks for eons.
     
  11. 25(2)+2

    25(2)+2 Trucker Forum STAFF Staff Member

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    Schwann's trucks are using propane/butane (LP Gas), LNG is methane and in gaseous form is lighter than air, propane as gas is heavier. There have been LP engines for many years, especially in route work and utility work with smaller vehicles. There was a market for LP farm engines in the 50s though about the early 70s. Most gas forklifts run on LP, too.

    The CNG/LNG heavy duty trucks are new here, it started with buses and many of those alternative fueled engines started with LP.
     
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