Who's The Worst Of Them ALL to work for?

Now, that right thar is totally UNtrue, and without fact --- or merit.
Not to mention lessens your credibility.

And, BTW, we here at TTR providing those "answers" that people come here seeking, want and expect said "answers" to be more than just "answers".
YuP!
We want those "answers" to be accurate.
ANYone can provide mere "answers".
Not all, it seems, can provide accuracy.

If my raising questions and seeking proof is "tearing people down", in your opinion, that causes me to think you can't back up your claims.
I neither "tear people down", nor did I have any negative comments about Swift.

I DO, however, suggest that not ALL truckin' companies are completely truthful in their claims.

What you "pointed out" is what Swift claims on their own website.
You provided NO proof that those claims by Swift are true, and/or accurate.

The problem is, you can't back that statement up with fact(s).
Credibility, PawPaw, credibility.
Other than C.R. England, I haven't torn down ANY truckin' company.
And I challenge YOU to provide proof that I have.

How about DISCUSS?
Can you do that without taking it as a personal "attack"

"Real" numbers, according to you, and according to Swift.
What they might "really" be are shallow claims to convince wannBees and/or newBees what a great sacrifice Swift is making by trainin' them.
Might be true, might not be true.
Can YOU prove those claims made by Swift ARE true and accurate?

I'm not sayin' those claims are, or aren't true and/or accurate.
But I am questioning their accuracy.
Last time I checked, that's allowed, and NOT considered an "attack".
Or, do you just believe what'cha wanna believe, and consider anything else to be an "attack" on what you choose to believe?
No questions asked, no questioning allowed?
No POSSIBILITY that you might have been misinformed, and MIGHT be passing on misinformation to others?

"ATTACK"?!
Not hardly, PawPaw.
I think, only those who are insecure in their information feel "attacked".
Others consider it to be 'communicating' --- and/or exploring other possibilities.

YuP!
I agree.
And "research" goes beyond just reading what a truckin' company says on their own website, and presenting it here as "fact".

The "likes of ME"?!!
Get real!
NObody here "likes" me.
I'm a baaadd man ------->
"Risks" being called a recruiter?
Uhhhhh, PawPaw --- how's your reading comprehension?
My "DISCLAIMER" CLEARLY stated that I am NOT suggesting that you're a recruiter.
Yet YOU "attack" ME for something I DIDN'T say?

Accuracy, PawPaw --- accuracy.
What a concept.

YuP!
Or even all THREE sides of a story.
Yet, if someone tries to point out another opinion, you call it an "attack"(?)
What's wrong with this picture?

See above.
What's even stranger is, that that's what you think.
And again, I challenge YOU to provide ANY evidence and/or proof, that I, Shakey AfterShock, have EVER done what YOU accuse me of doing.

FACT is, I don't want ANYone to be banned.
ESPECIALLY those who disagree with me.
I APPRECIATE those who don't always agree with me. It's how I learn.
After discussing our differences, I'm either more convinced that I'm correct, or, upon learning new facts, I've been known to change my opinion(s), based on new those findings.
TRUTH is what matters, PawPaw.
And I thank one and all who take the time and make the effort to provide factual truths.
NOT accuse them of "attacking" me --- or my beliefs.
Which, I believe is called having an open mind.

And, while you're at it, please provide evidence of my "negative attitude" about companies, other than C.R. England.
I'm waiting ...............................................

If you can't, or won't do that, you lack in credibility.
Plain and simple.
You see, idle claims aren't (always) facts, or truthful.

I have ABSOLUTELY NO problem with ANYone who wants to share what they have learned, through personal experience or through "extensive" research.
I DON'T, however, consider repeating what's gathered at a truckin' company's own website to be "extensive research".
And I DON'T suggest that ANYone, who shares their experiences, that may be contrary to mine, to be an "attack" on me, as YOU seem to.

Fact is, that's a diversionary tactic used by those who can't back up their claims WITH fact(s), and actually fear being questioned.

You, in this thread HAVE "attacked" my good charector though.
My MAIN goal, in ANY given matter, is the TRUTH of the matter.
Nothing else but the truth really matters.

What we try to accomplish here at The Truckers' Report, is to weed out the bovine excrement from the truth, so that those seeking ACCURATE information can be assured that's what they're receiving.
Debates are NOT "attacks", but mearly a way to get AT the truth.
We report, and the reader decicdes what to believe.
And THAT, I beliveve is called 'communication'.

Anyway, that's MY opinion.
Others might agree,
or not ----
their choice.

 

AfterShock do you currently work for Swift or have you ever? Can you for a fact say that the pay scale shown on the Swift site is different than what they actually pay? I have worked for them and what they list for pay on the website IS what they pay per mile. And I investigated being a mentor when I was with them and know how mentors are paid. And if you think your line by line dissection of my posts and your "Trucking Forum Supporter" status make it seem like you know what you are talking about, most will see right through it as an attack on someone who has posted facts that can be verified. As they used to say when I was in the military, if you can't dazzle them with facts, baffle them with bs. I have given facts that anyone can go look up for themselves. What have you given? So have a nice day as I am done with this discussion. I will let those who are really interested investigate the facts I have posted and discuss issues with them if they care to ask questions.

 

NopE!
I actually DID do extensive research of the various truckin' companies BEFORE I graduated Big truck truck drivin' school, and ruled Swift OUT --- based on what Swift claimed compared to what I lerned from current Swift drivers who had more than a year's experience drivin' for Swift, --- which was a bit of a challenge to find because, as it seems, many or most of the Swift drivers I talked to told me that they only planned to remain with Swift long enough to repay their Swift training, (one year) then move on to a BETTER truckin' company.

They also informed me that they originally went with Swift because that was the ONLY truckin' company that would hire them, which caused me to wonder, if Swift is such a swell truckin' company, why were their newBees so anxious to jump ship?
Not to mention, why was Swift the ONLY truckin' company that would hire them? Does Swift hire from the bottom of the barrel?
If so, why?
Knowing that, after, according to Swift, so much is spent on training them, it seems very little is spent on retaining them, --- leading me to the assumption that Swift IS, in fact, making money on training newBees. Which, Swift isn't disclosing in the numbers they release or post on their website, which is in existence for the purpose of
RECRUITING more trainees.
If NOT for recruiting purposes, why would they post such information?
It sure wouldn't be for driver retention. If a driver was already drivin' for Swift, they'd ALREADY know that information.
Wouldn't they?
Hmmmmmmmm?

Anyway, ...... as a result, I applied to, and was hired by, what is generally considered a better truckin' company, and remained there for about 4 1/2 years, doing various jobs, including a driver trainer, and was offered a management position, which I declined.

After that time, I found a small niche company that turned out to be a perfect fit, for me, and was hired largely due to my longevity with ONE company, and a better company with a better reputation, at that.
To my way of thinkin', hiring on with a trainin' truckin' company with the intent of staying there for only one year, didn't make sense.
And, as it turned out, it appears I was correct.
I don't have all the horror stories to tell about being mistreated by the bottom-feeder, starter trainin' companies, that many seem to have a plentiful supply of.
Imagine that.

NopE!
But, I haven't made any claims about Swift's pay scale, one way or the other.

Well, PawPaw, what you posted, that Swift claims to pay PER MILE, isn't ALL Swift listed.
As I read it, Swift also claims pay based on dispatched miles.
Can YOU verify that that information IS correct, accurate and factual, and that ALL their drivers can expect those miles and pay?
Or, is it just a smoke & mirrors dog & phony show?

With one year experience, did you have any chance of becoming a mentor with Swift?
And WHAT did you "investigate"?
Swift's CLAIMS?
You've already admitted you have NO real experience as a mentor, so is it fair to assume that you don't have any first-hand knowledge of what a Swift mentor actually DOES make?

My "line by line dissection" of your, or ANYone's post(s) is to assure I don't miss any points that have been raised.
Something you seem to do quite well.

Rather than address all of my points, you conveniently pick & choose only those that suit you.
Why is that?

OH!
BTW, ....... don't fear my "Trucking Forum Supporter status".
I have NO more power here than you, or ANY other poster has.
It's twue!
It's twue!


I'm a "Supporter" because I appreciate what this forum does. That being, assisting and helping others seeking the truth in, of and about the truckin' industry.
I also appreciate all the posters here that volunteer their time to answer questions.
And I REALLY appreciate the time and efforts the owner puts in here to make all this possible.

Wrong, PawPaw.
Actually, "MOST" tell me that they appreciate my thoroughness, and, would you believe, thank me?
And, what, exactly, have you actually "verified"?
That Swift has posted THEIR figures on THEIR website?
And you believe what Swift posts?
(And won't even consider that Swift MIGHT be misleading folks?
How many truckin' companies tell the WHOLE truth?)

Carry on soldier!
You're still doin' a fine job of that.
(Actually, had you been paying attention, you'd know that the saying goes:
If you can't dazzle 'em with BRILLIANCE,
Baffle 'em with B.S.)

What you've "given" almost amounts to plagiarism, because, when you first presented those numbers, you didn't credit your source --- but rather made it appear as though you came to discover that information by your own figuring, rather than merely repeating (copying) it from another source that COULD be misconstruing the numbers in their favor.
It wasn't until I questioned those numbers that you (finally) admitted where you found them.

How 'bout something to think about?

Thank yew!
(Even though I know you don't really mean it.)
You have a nice day, too, PawPaw --
(And I really DO mean it)

You've said that before.

What "facts"?
Information you found on Swift's website,
then take and present as "fact"?

And IF others ask you to clarify anything, will you consider that an "attack" on you, as you have with me? :smt102

 

I've been following this thread for a few days now and there are a number of things that y'all may want to consider. As far as the companies that have a training program goes, the math that Paw Paw posted is seriously flawed. It's not at all about how much the company puts into driver pay for the training program that really concerns them, rather it's the money they put into all the other aspects of funding the training program per driver. They worry about the total compensation package to the drivers, cost of in house training resources, cost to operations in handling a training team, etc. All in all, each company knows to the mile at which point a new driver has broken even with the training program. At this point, the most probable likelyhood is that the newly trained driver will become a financial liability with a minor exception. Most of these companies want the newly trained drivers to run solo for about 6 months, then become "certified driver trainers" themselves. It cost a whole lot less to pay someone who has been with the company for only about a year to train new drivers than it would to pay someone who has been with the company for years. Then you get into the costs savings that companies experience by encouraging high turnovers.

The simple truth of the matter is this, any company who does not want a high turnover rate for the company simply will not have one. While there are a few of these, there aren't very many of them. Companies who have huge driver turnover rates have taken great efforts to work the trunovers to their short term financial benefit.

To answer the question of "is it better to go to a driving school or to go to a company and let them train me?" It is my opinion that it is far better to go to a driving school at a technical school or some other like facility that have a driving course that spans several weeks. Companies who train drivers tend to overlook or not make time for the little things that matter because they are in the business of moving freight, not training drivers. Technical schools with solid driving programs are in the business of turning out safe drivers who are more likely to have a long and successful driving career.

As for the sceptics who want some idea of how much experience a person has who is giving advice; here is a small part of my driving resume. I have over 5.25 million miles, (verifiable). I have pulled everything from racing fuel to flowers using livestock trailers, tankers, doubles, triples, dry box, refer, flat and specialized. I have driving experience in all 48 continental states and almost all of Canada. I have been in every weather and geologic event recorded in the last 30 years. I have driven during teamster strikes and on every type of road surface available. I feel confident that I can offer sound reliable advice to those drivers who are new to the industry or to those who are considering becoming a part of the industry.

Good luck and be professional. But above all else, be safe!

Georgia Joker

 

Maybe it's because they make a killing on the shipping charges? If you're an o/o and train, they take $0.05 per mile from the o/o, so, in essence, the o/o has paid for said student's pay during training. My husband trained off and on for many years, and finally said "no more!" until they give him a student who actually knows how to drive a truck.....aren't they supposed to know that when they get their cdl? Can we say third party write off on their drive test? I wonder who's palm got greased? No ulterior motive here, right. So, yeah, I guess that's how they get cheap labor. They paid so much extra for the student's training? lol Are you a driver for them? Or office personnel? Maybe corporate? Yuck. But I'm not complaining about my husband being a driver for Swift, he says it's a way to get your foot in the door and the otr experience to move on, if so inclined. My husband and I never had major problems with them....usual things like bol missing (in other words, they lost the trip envelope). We were satisfied being he was an o/o, so he basically got his loads from the planner, didn't need a dm. Always good miles, he likes to run hard, he hates sitting. Moving right along, we'd been discussing this past year purchasing his truck when the lease ended. But, lo and behold, right before the lease was due to expire they terminated him. We don't know why because they won't tell us, but that's okay, because we found someone who's going to find out for us, and hopefully we'll get back what they took from us, our investment and my husband's reputation. It took my husband two months to get a job in an industry that's always hiring, the trucking industry. The job he has right now is definitely not the cream of the crop but it sure beats nothing. Would you find any reason not to hire someone who has 13 years otr experience with one non dot accident (minor paint transfer at a truck scale) and a clean dmv record? But no one would hire him because of what was put on his dac report. We need justice and we will get it. Mark my words, we will get it.

 

Close, TW --- but no cigar.
Actually, according to PawPaw's profile, he's a school bus driver,
with a year's Big truck truck driving experience.
And, as he claims to have driven for Swift, I assume that's the
truckin' company where he got that year of experience, ---
probably as a trainee.

 

I completed the 42 days training and then went solo. If training companies make strong efforts to get rid of drivers at a certain "break even" point, then why do those companies have so many million milers? You seem to forget that, for some parts of this country, people have limited opportunity as to what company to work for. For example, in NM only about 4 major companies and a couple of smaller companies hire. When you come on here and rip a company apart, especially when someone has said that those are their only choices, what kind of help are you actually giving that individual?

And the reality is, if I would have taken Swift's data that I used in my post and called it XYZ Trucking, none of you would have posted anything counter to what was said. BUT since I decided to honestly disclose information to make a point that training is not cheap for a company (didn't even talk about the higher insurance costs and maintenance costs that go along with letting someone learn how to drive in your equipment) I chose to list the name of the company. And you all have shown that your answers are biased by the negative attitude towards Swift. I did not even post the info to defend Swift, but felt it would be more valid to post information on a company I had driven for which is more than we can say about your responses since, at least AfterShock has pointed out he never drove for Swift so he has much less information on how they do things then he claims I do.

As for dispatched miles, I was always paid for every mile that showed up on my dispatch. Were they what I actually drove? No but I knew they paid HHG going in and I knew what HHG meant. I know of very few companies that pay for every mile you drive. Most that have done that or tried have either gone out of business or have gone back to either practical or HHG. And why is that? Because drivers take advantage of that and throw in a few extra miles on each trip by not driving the shortest route. Many of the complaints about companies on this thread and this website are that companies don't give drivers everything drivers feel they should have. Yet when companies do try to do more, the drivers take advantage of that and that hurts the narrow bottom line of the company. A perfect example of that was FFE's southwest region that paid $150 a day for every day away from home whether a driver was rolling or sitting at a dock. Drivers took advantage of that and the ompany dropped it. SO the next time you want to complain about how a company treats its drivers ask, "If I was the company owner and was trying to protect the bottom line so that I can keep this company open to provide me an income and provide jobs for my drivers, what would I do to be as profitable as I can be?"

And, AfterShock, if being thanked is a measure of the validity of someone's comments on here, I hate to break this to you but I have a higher percentage than you because I have been thanked 20.5% of the time while you have been thanked 16.1% of the time, so who do people think has the more valid information by your idea of even mentioning that?

 

Thank you, it seems to be pulling that away from all of the posts, School > Large company school...

My only prob is no local college tech schools doing them Going to have to bring a couple thousand

 

Now the truth comes out. I didnt realize he was a "school bus driver". How can you make any money doing that? I know people that do that and they only work about 4 hours a day at about $14 per hour(and that is "good" pay, and he being in New Mexico, I doubt that he makes that)So he is here telling us about being a big truck driver and he has only driven for Swift and he thinks he knows it all? Yet he quit to drive a school bus? His credibility just went right down the toilet with me(not that it wasnt already there) I see that he says that he has been thanked 20% of the time, and he says that you havent, so what is your deal(I guess he hasnt figured out that anybody can click on the thanks button)--How he knows about the FFE thing is beyond me anyhow unless he has worked there. ANybody who has been in this industry knows that if FFE was really promising that, then there would be certain restrictions surrounding that in order to even get that type of pay, since NO company is gonna pay you for doing NOTHING. SO it sounds like he may be a typical Swiftie Newbie/Wannabe that knows it all, you know how I know that? Just ask one!"

 

Actually it's 'forum supporter' by Shocky's name, not 'Staff'.