Under 21 O/O insurance?

If you are going to be running under your father's authority his insurance must cover you by law, it is not an option for you to get your own policy and then use his DOT/MC numbers.

Also, being under 21 his onsurance company most likely will not cover you if he has interstate authority, unless he also has an intrastate operation. Keep in mind that interstate does not only apply when the truck and driver cross state lines, it also applies if the freight came fromnor is destined for out of state or country.

 

No it don't, it is only the truck.

The origin of the load has nothing to do with it.

If this was the case, then those little mom and pop final mile operations would be in trouble.

 

Sorry Ridgeline you are flat out wrong this time. Interstate commerce includes any part of a shipment, even a part that stays wholly within one state if it is part of a movement that began or will terminate out of state. See the definition of interstate commerce below directly from the FMCSRs.

If you perform trade, traffic, or transportation exclusively in your business’s domicile state, this is considered intrastate commerce. Rwad the third bullet point.

If your trade, traffic, or transportation is one of the following, this is considered interstate commerce. Source: 49 CFR 390.5.:

• Between a place in a state and a place outside of such state (including a place outside of the United States)
• Between two places in a state through another state or a place outside of the United States
• Between two places in a state as part of trade, traffic, or transportation originating or terminating outside the state or the United States

Additionally, there are dozens of Court decisions that support this position as well as this guidance from the FMCSA.

Question 6: How does one distinguish between intra- and interstate commerce for the purposes of applicability of the FMCSRs?

Guidance: Interstate commerce is determined by the essential character of the movement, manifested by the shipper’s fixed and persistent intent at the time of shipment, and is ascertained from all of the facts and circumstances surrounding the transportation. When the intent of the transportation being performed is interstate in nature, even when the route is within the boundaries of a single State, the driver and CMV are subject to the FMCSRs.

 

The issue at hand is the driver is under 21, so he is ineligible to haul interstate freight even when it is solely within his state of domicile. The K restriction is only applicable to having a medical variance or other issue that prevents, or was self-selected to prevent interstate operations.

391.11 b (1) requires drivers in interstate commerce to be at least 21 years old. The key determination is if the activity is interstate commerce not if the driver physically leaves the state. I deal with this often with vocational fleets I represent, they hire under 21 year olds then have issues with DOT citations within their home state, usually New York as they seem to be the toughest on making the determination between interstate and intrastate.

Look at it this way, if you need a US DOT number and MC number (Federal Authority) to move the freight, which interstate requires even when the truck doesn't leave the state, then the driver must also be fully qualified under the FMCSRs.

 

back it down dude understand and admit when you're wrong.

 

Your insurance going to be 60k unless you can get on your dad plan.

 

I understand what you are saying but it doesn't apply within the border of a state with a driver living and licensed within the state, which is considered domestic transportation.

Two issues with your position; one is that to assume you are right, that would mean the hundreds of final mile mom and pops are illegally running under the fmcsa regs, even though they are intrastate. Any courier taking a package from Fedex would violate the regulations, air freight for cargo van freight would also be in violation.

What is forgotten is the state, not the Feds determine within their jurisdiction how to use the regulations for licensing or freight when it is considered domestic transportation. The states have the latitude to make changes to the regs to fit their needs when it is applied to their state. As mentioned ca and tx both have hos rules and so does Alaska if I remember right.

The fmcsa regulations are not enforced by the state, these regulations are replaced by the state laws. A cop doesn't write a ticket for say equipment failure under the fmcsa regs, but a state reg with the fed regs being the foundation for that reg. States can't enforce federal laws or regulations and that's why we have final mile and courier services only operate under state laws exclusively.

The second point is what court cases?

I did a quick search and I only found a few insurance lawsuits, nothing else directly addressing the issue.

 

Again, you are usually correct but not this time. The Interstate Commerce Clause specifically takes away the States rights to regulate any portion of interstate commerce. Those were the court cases I was referring to as they clearly establish the Federal jurisdiction over interstate commerce.

Here is a recent (2015) New York Wage and Hour case that addresses the exact question at hand, does the driver need to cross a state line to engage in interstate commerce?

Federal Court Finds Intrastate Travel Part of “Stream of Commerce,” Applies Motor Carrier Exemption to Truck Driver | Wage & Hour Law Update

Now, for intrastate commerce, what you call domestic transportation, yes the states have the legal authority to regulate such within their borders provided it does not otherwise meet the definition of interstate commerce. No argument here. The key being the intent or actual movement. If neither meet the more restrictive definition of interstate commerce then it is a state issue as domestic or intrastate commerce.

As for the different intrastate hours of service for some states, again no argument here when the driver is operating in intrastate commerce. I do take exception to your point about Alaska however as their hours of service are set forth in the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Regulations (FMCSRs) at 395.1 (B) and (C), maybe some other places as well.

As for your argument about final mile couriers there are two things to consider to determine if they are subject to FMCSA jurisdiction.

• What is the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of the vehicle they are using?
• Are they transporting any regulated hazardous materials in an amount requiring placards?

If they are operating a vehicle under 10,000 pounds GVWR and not hauling haz-mat then they are not covered by the FMCSA regulations and would be entirely legal to use any age driver with or without medical qualifications or any other oversight by the FMCSA as long as they meet their specific state regulations. The large majority of small package couriers do exactly this -use small cars, vans or pickup trucks to avoid being a regulated motor carrier.

If they are transporting haz-mat requiring placards regardless of the size/weight of the vehicle or using a commercial motor vehicle as defined in 390.5 then they are subject to FMCSRs.

UPS, FedEx and such have been clearly established as interstate motor carriers, even for their package operations if any portion of the trip, or the intent of the trip is interstate in nature. Here is some FMCSA guidance on the subject with links to their website to verify. (Bold and italics added for emphasis)

How does one distinguish between intra- and interstate commerce for the purposes of applicability of the FMCSRs? | FMCSA

How does one distinguish between intra- and interstate commerce for the purposes of applicability of the FMCSRs?

Guidance: Interstate commerce is determined by the essential character of the movement, manifested by the shipper’s fixed and persistent intent at the time of shipment, and is ascertained from all of the facts and circumstances surrounding the transportation. When the intent of the transportation being performed is interstate in nature, even when the route is within the boundaries of a single State, the driver and CMV are subject to the FMCSRs.
​

Now, to further drive home the FMCSA's position on this here is medical qualification guidance that also clearly includes drivers for UPS, FedEx and others as subject to the interstate FMCSRs.

Why do you think the UPS and FedEx package cars have US DOT numbers on them?

Am I required to have a medical certificate if I only operate a CMV in my home State (intrastate com

Am I required to have a medical certificate if I only operate a CMV in my home State (intrastate commerce)?
PreviousNext

Intrastate drivers are subject to the physical qualification regulations of their States. All 50 States have adapted their regulations based on some of the Federal requirements. Many states grant waivers for certain medical conditions.
NOTE: FedEx, UPS and DHL drivers usually do not leave the state but are subject to interstate regulations.​

One more FMCSA guidance link, this one addresses how a motor carrier determines if they are subject to the FMCSRs. Bold and italics added for emphasis. (You need to scroll half way down the page)

How do I determine whether I am subject to FMCSA's safety regulations?

How do I determine whether I am subject to FMCSA's safety regulations?

Published 12/05/2014 02:13 PM | Updated 04/18/2019 11:54 AM
You are subject to FMCSA regulations if you operate any of the following types of commercial motor vehicles in interstate commerce:

• A vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating or gross combination weight rating (whichever is greater) of 4,537 kg (10,001 lbs.) or more (GVWR, GCWR, GVW or GCW)
• A vehicle designed or used to transport between 9 and 15 passengers (including the driver) for compensation, whether direct or indirect
• A vehicle designed or used to transport 15 or more passengers including the driver and not used for compensation
• Any size vehicle used in the transportation of materials found to be hazardous for the purposes of the Hazardous Materials Transportation Act (49 U.S.C. 5101 et seq.) and which require the motor vehicle to be placarded under the Hazardous Materials Regulations (49 CFR Parts 100-177). This includes INTRASTATE Hazardous Materials carriers

If you meet the above criteria, you must comply with the applicable U.S. Department of Transportation (DOT) safety regulations concerning:

• Controlled substances and alcohol testing for all persons required to possess a CDL
• Driver qualifications (including medical exams)
• Driving of commercial motor vehicles; parts and accessories necessary for safe operations
• Hours of service
• Inspection, repair and maintenance

​

If that is not enough to establish that yes, the FMCSA does in fact have jurisdiction over drivers of CMVs even if they stay wholly within one state but are engaging in interstate commerce, here is some interesting reading on the history of the Interstate Commerce Clause which includes citations to several novel cases that prove the intent of the shipment determines the nature (interstate v. intrastate) as well as addresses States rights to regulate domestic transportation.

Interstate commerce clause

​