[Advice Needed] 1,000,000 mile Truck with cracked block... to rebuild or drop-in?

Discussion in 'Heavy Duty Diesel Truck Mechanics Forum' started by HamLocker, Apr 3, 2021.

  1. HamLocker

    HamLocker Bobtail Member

    7
    5
    Apr 3, 2021
    0
    Hi All,

    Forewarning: very green to the trucking industry and made some expensive mistakes. Please bear with my ignorance. Seeking your advice / expertise / wisdom on a path forward.

    Story:
    • Family friends have a fleet of 15 trucks and offered us an opportunity to join their business. We accepted.
    • Recently purchased a truck with a "rebuilt" engine... 13' Kenworth T660, Cummins ISX 15L 485 hp, 18 speed with a 86" studio sleeper and just a hair over 1,000,000 miles on the odometer. Beautiful on the outside at least. It's run for about 20,000 miles so far with a rebuilt head, liners and pistons. This truck was owned by one of their drivers and was recommended to us. In hindsight, we would never have purchased it for the price we paid.... probably overpaid by at least $10K and still have ~$18K in debt... yes, its bad.
    • Details are somewhat vague, here's what is known: Driver was going down a steep descent (8 degrees) in Colorado, hauling a 48klb load when the RPM's shot up dramatically - he was in too high of a gear (7 or 8) when he started the descent and apparently the engine break was weak... next thing he knew there was a loud kaboom and the engine shutoff.
    • Assessing the damage, there is a hole in the block - suspect that we threw a rod although am not sure quite frankly what happened. The truck is currently being towed back by one of our other trucks... during the tow, that truck also broke down.... Have not had a chance to fully debrief with the driver and visually inspect condition of the engine.
    • Background: typically make runs from Houston to North Dakota, Wyoming, Colorado etc on Flatbeds. Severely lacking expertise on the maintenance side...
    Goal: to get engine to a condition with the highest probability of operating for at least 3 yrs without a critical engine failure, without spending $30K on a brand new drop-in Cummins.

    Questions:
    1. Is something like this largely the fault of the driver or is it likely a poorly rebuilt engine? If not enough info, what other relevant details are needed to make an assessment? i.e. if you are the detective, what is needed to solve this case and identify root cause.
    2. What would you do to fix this and why? Are we setting ourselves up for failure if we rebuild? Or would you go with a brand new or reman'd drop-in?
    3. If you rebuild, what components would you absolutely replace without question? Which one's should be checked / depend on condition before making replacement determination?
    4. If you go with a drop-in, any advice on selecting an good candidate? Concerned that we'd pick another bad engine that could blow up on us again.
    5. There's an option to go with an old Detroit 60 12.7L... but that would mean changing out wiring harness, etc etc to make it compatibile... this feels like a mistake but would be a cheaper option. Also believe this violates emissions regulations.
    6. Any recommendations on trusted mechanics in the Houston area?

    Thank you for your help. Completely aware that are in over our heads - this has been a valuable lesson and we're trying to find the best way forward. Appreciate if we could focus on the situation at hand and spare any comments about ignorance or stupidity - we know we are idiots! If you have any other advice, please feel free to share.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2021
    Coffey Thanks this.
  2. Truckers Report Jobs

    Trucking Jobs in 30 seconds

    Every month 400 people find a job with the help of TruckersReport.

  3. blairandgretchen

    blairandgretchen Road Train Member

    12,038
    60,583
    Dec 9, 2011
    South west Missouri
    0
    Driver error if high RPM.
    Block is toast if it threw a leg out of bed,

    Most options will be expensive, and are there any guarantees the driver will not repeat the mistake?
     
    Coffey, Dino soar, Doealex and 7 others Thank this.
  4. uncleal13

    uncleal13 Road Train Member

    3,756
    6,193
    Apr 9, 2009
    Humboldt, Sk
    0
    Driver’s fault. Went down the hill too fast, over reved the engine, it grenaded. Yes they’ll do that if they over rev too far.
    Cannot be a successful repair in long term, only temporary patch, as you have found out.
    Needs a whole new engine.
     
    Coffey, Dino soar, ibcalm19 and 3 others Thank this.
  5. Val_Caldera

    Val_Caldera Road Train Member

    2,569
    7,921
    Apr 2, 2021
    TARHEEL
    0
    HamLocker,

    Being a 20 year OTR and Local Class-A Driver and a (very) part time wrench, I agree with the assessments of a new Block and Components.
    "Patching" such a Block and "rebuilding" would be Idiotic, see below.

    You 2 are NOT Idiots (or morons or imbeciles), okay?!
    Everyone in Trucking regardless of WHO they are or were will make and have made Mistakes.
    There is NO Perfect Road To Success!!
    You 2 are NOT Ignorant, that implies no concern/incentive to Learn.
    You 2 are simply Green and as such Open To Learning.
    Life Offers Lessons. Each Lesson Will Be Repeated Until Learned.
    You 2 are Learning!

    Lose the "driver".
    Fired for Cause.

    Keep US Apprised of Your Journey!
    CHEERS!!
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2021
    Reason for edit: added uplifting script.
  6. HamLocker

    HamLocker Bobtail Member

    7
    5
    Apr 3, 2021
    0
    Thanks for taking this seriously and for the feedback & sentiment. We are learning and moving forward!

    To be clear, we were testing whether to replace the block, head, crankshaft, etc with aftermarket or OEM components keeping all other kit the same (EGR, Turbo, etc) - sounds like this is a mistake.

    If the above is a bad option, would you recommend a drop-in? Concerned that if we go new, we're throwing $35K at a truck that would barely be even worth that much... and if we go used, that we'd risk repeating the same issue and throwing away $15K.

    We've contacted Performance Kenworth in Houston and they quoted ~$35K for a brand new ISX drop-in.... any other alternatives?

    Last thing we want is to throw good money after bad....

    Really appreciate your help.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2021
    Coffey and blairandgretchen Thank this.
  7. Swine hauler

    Swine hauler Medium Load Member

    348
    2,233
    Jun 21, 2019
    0
    Your driver grenaded that motor. Your concern about putting a used motor in being " a good money after bad " scenario is misplaced. All motors are used. Just buy one with a good and know history, like out of wreck.

    You're not going to put a Detroit in that because it would cost ten thousand dollars to rewire, replumb reprogram and refit and redesign that that truck to accept it.

    The 18 speed has absolutely nothing to do with it. What, Detroit's don't have 18's behind them?

    The engine doesn't know what tranny is back there.

    This will only be the beginning of your troubles if you don't hire a real truck driver. Its not just about holding the steering wheel and pointing the truck in the right direction.
     
    Coffey and HamLocker Thank this.
  8. Arctic_fox

    Arctic_fox Experienced mx13 execrator

    2,993
    12,961
    Sep 16, 2016
    0
    Well you have a few options here. First ditch the idiot wheel holder. Blowing an engine for over rev has ZERO excuse.

    Next you can do one of five things as i see it.

    1. Buy a werecked truck with a good block and transplant it.

    Pros: Cheapest option, can get amazing deals, fairly simple, gives you a parts truck to salvage to keep your 660 up if same year and model.

    Cons: unknown engine history, may have concealed damage that makes block worthless, may need to be flatbedded in.

    2. Buy new. Likely most expensive options

    Pros: Low chance of problems, new engine warranty, oeace of mind for at least a year or two.

    Cons: Expensive.

    3. Buy a remaned engine. Middle cost choice.

    Pros: Most GOOD remaned engines come with a warranty, fairly cheap, Usually reliable.

    Cons: Can be a gamble as a bad reman could put your truck down again to fix issues. Can be hard to find a reputable place.

    4. Buy a cheap running truck. Also a cheap option and gives you additional options.

    Pros: New vehicle for fleet already running. Can transplant good parts off bad engine as needed. Gets you back on the road asap.

    Cons: Unknown history, gamble, low 15-20k trucks are almosy ASSURED to have issues.

    5. Patch block. Cost?????

    Pros: may be cheaper.

    Cons: highly likely to be unsafe, wont last very long, highly likely to fail DOT inspection even if done well. May be illegal in some areas.
     
    Coffey, HamLocker and Swine hauler Thank this.
  9. DUNE-T

    DUNE-T Road Train Member

    6,379
    14,982
    May 10, 2015
    Detroit, MI
    0
    Get another engine or get a new truck. That block can't be rebuild and buying something used and rebuilding with aftermarket parts is also a bad idea.
    I personally would put a Detroit in there and keep the 18 speed
     
    Coffey and HamLocker Thank this.
  10. bad-luck

    bad-luck Road Train Member

    3,023
    5,433
    Nov 16, 2013
    Baltimore, Maryland
    0
    Driver error, over reved the engine and it is toast. You could buy a good used engine with low miles. Here are some things to consider... the truck has over a million miles you need to make sure that you have money put aside for when the rears go, and the trans. As for not having any problems for 3 years, there is no realistic way for anyone to say that is possible. Prepare for the worst hope for the best
     
    Coffey, Dino soar and HamLocker Thank this.
  11. HamLocker

    HamLocker Bobtail Member

    7
    5
    Apr 3, 2021
    0
    Thank y'all again for the feedback... Aligning on a used, reman drop in.

    Any idea on where to find a good, used ISX15 with low miles? Looking online and they are scattered across the U.S...
    We are located in Houston - not sure on the best way to source a used drop-in... concerned about quality / reliability.

    Would you go with the 13' ISX or can we go with something newer? Are there an alternative engine model compatible with the 13' T660 that would be worth considering?

    Really appreciate it.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2021
  • Truckers Report Jobs

    Trucking Jobs in 30 seconds

    Every month 400 people find a job with the help of TruckersReport.