Broke down after 2.5 hrs on, logged off duty, Co wants me to run.

Thank you Accidental Trucker for taking the time to understand and elucidate this!
You are the ONLY person I have seen who actually understands this lol

I use the 2+ hour off duty pause frequently, either for a long unload (hands off, me in the sleeper etc), or if I want to stop and do some shopping or eat dinner, take a shower, so I don't lose it off the 14.
So I can confirm that you are speaking truth, and you don't get violations.

My ELD (Peoplenet) won't calculate the split for me, so before I start driving on the last leg I have to calculate how much time I paused the 14 for (minimum of 2 hours), and then look at how many hours I have left of my 11, and then since I can't see either number on the ELD while driving, I set a countdown timer on my phone with my split adjusted hours (usually it's my 11 that I will use up first) and then drive off into the night with my ELD screaming at me that I am out of hours on my 14... lol

I have also found that if the longer Sleeper portion of the split is more than 10 hours, you get a full clock back, not just the split sleeper.
So effectively you can use the split rules just to get the 2+ hour pause, and then do a regular 10 in the sleeper and start with a fresh clock.

Fmcsa has an ELD simulation tool on their web site where you can enter different scenarios and it will tell you if you are legal, and I ran these before doing it and got them confirmed.

Also of interest, when I first started doing it, Peoplenet was throwing a violation, and when I called them they said that if you spent more than 10 hours in the sleeper, it voided the Split Sleeper, and so the 2 hour pause was not given.
I had to call them a few times, but I finally got them to look deeper and find that there is no Maximum limit on the longer split sleeper berth period, and they were calculating it wrong lol

So I do this sometimes several times a week, and it works fine in the ELD, as well as the Fmcsa training simulator.

And yes, I use it for breakdowns as well, as long as you are legitimately off duty or SB while waiting. And my company allows waiting for unloads, repairs, etc, to be off duty, so it's legal, as long as you are being honest.

So, ignore all the people who have no experience in the subject, and listen to the people who do it regularly!

 

Edited because: Repeated thoughts...

 

The place you are going wrong is your belief that the shorter off duty pause can only be 2 or 3 hours, when that's just the MINIMUM.

From the Answer you posted "and a period of *at least* 2-consecutive hours off-duty"
It's all about minimums, and there is no upper limit on how long the pause can be to the 14.

If you look, everywhere the verbiage is "at LEAST 2 hours off duty", and no where does it give a maximum length of time the pause can be.
Obviously at 10 hours off duty you are reset, so that's the upper limit lol

So if he was off duty for 7 hours, that makes no difference than if he was off duty for 2 hours or 9 hours, it pauses the 14, CONTINGENT on him then taking a minimum of 7 in the sleeper.

And if you do the shorter off duty break first, then you will be running in violation of the 14, until you complete the longer sleeper berth portion.

And if you want to argue with me, remember that I do this on a regular basis, because it makes my life so much nicer, not having to rush, being able to take time to shower or shop or dine without penalty on my schedule, so I have verified this understanding with my safety department, Peoplenet, and the FMCSA.
So if you understand it differently, you need to rethink it and figure out how it works, because it DOES work lol

 

Great explanation. I am lucky, my eld system, (Qualcom) automatically figures it in so I do have to calculate anything myself.
As a recap, if you spend at least 2 hours, but less than 3 hours off duty, you have to follow it up later with an 8 hour sleeper berth stint. If you spend more than 3 hours, but less than 10 hours, you have to follow it up with a 7 hour sleeper berth stint. On my ELD, the 14 hour clock will continue to wind down until I have completed at least 2 hours of off duty and specified I will be using a sleeper berth split. At that time, my 14 hour clock will snap back to where it was at the beginning of the off duty stint and remain 'frozen' there until I either go back on a duty status (on duty or driving) or until I complete 10 hours off duty. Then, it will start counting down again (or be reset if I ended up with a 10 hour off duty break). So, it makes it easy to 'extend' your14 hour clock to be able to work in appointments and the like.

 

7 hours off duty. So ya your 14 hr clock completely stopped at 7am

 

You are lucky, I guess QC has one thing going for it lol
It took me several conversations with Peoplenet to get them to even understand the basics of the concept, and why only showing the expired 14 so you can't even see how much is left on your 11 without stopping is a bad idea, and I got one guy to agree that MAYBE having a way to tell the system that the 2+ break was for a split sleeper was a good idea, and he would pass it on to the developers...
The developers who have been working on fixing some annoying bugs with no success for 2 years now... Sigh...

But as a result, I have gotten quite familiar with the inner workings of the regs! Lol

 

I never claimed the shorter break had to be 2 or 3 hours.

When I did mention 2/3 hour breaks, it was only shorthand for the shorter break. Regardless of the length of time of the shorter break, anything beyond the 3-hr time frame still requires a 7-hr longer break later on.

The 7-hr longer break was the main point of all my posts- namely that I did not believe the driver was going to log it properly on paper logs and in that event, he was simply extending his day solely for the benefit of his company and to the detriment of his own rest and pay.

Taking the shorter break first and extending it beyond the 3-hour time frame is an inefficient and detrimental usage of the split sleeper on the driver's side.

Like I've said all along- it unnecessarily extends the day of the driver, increases the amount of unpaid time, and cuts into the rest time of the driver.

More than 3 hours for the shorter split sleeper berth does not count towards the required 10-hour break time.

Hope it's clear now.

 

Ok, you had said he could only count 3 hours of the breakdown time, and now I see you mean towards the 10 hour break.
I thought you meant he could only pause the clock for 3 hours.

What you have revealed however is your short sighted view of driving lol
If I have a breakdown or long unload, I love being able to pause the clock so that I can get back on the road sooner, and get miles again.
You seem to be focused on it only helping the company, but I get paid when I am driving, so if I can pause the clock, then I can return to driving faster and not lose as many hours.
I also take care of myself, so if I am getting too tired or sleepy I will stop and may not use the entire amount of time I gained from the pause, but if I am still feeling like driving I can drive.
That's benefit to me, because driving is what I get paid for, and so my benefits match the company benefits.

I also get paid breakdown detention over 1 hour, so I can get paid for my time, and then also get miles.

And then when I get tired or run out of hours finally, I can either take a 7,or usually I go ahead and do 10 in the sleeper, and so lose no rest time, in fact often get better rest.

Plus, it's nice having a few hours to relax and play and take a walk or whatever, instead of just driving and sleeping and repeat.

 

You're absolutely right about the above when breakdowns happen once in a blue moon, the company reciprocates by granting breakdown pay and allowing the driver freedom to adjust his/her schedule as needed. That's also the correct approach for O/O's.

However, many companies do not allow that freedom and instead expect the driver to run hard and deal with breakdowns like insurance companies do- as "acts of God".

A lot of times certain details and aspects to comments are but a product of that driver's experience, right or wrong. We shouldn't argue when our experiences don't match up and thus, our opinions appear to be at odds or contradictory.

I get the sense you were just trying to clear up misconceptions, so I appreciate that. I was throwing around the 2/3-hr break period loosely and I can see how that gave a certain impression.

As for my personal experience with carriers out of the border region [and Chicago as well] is that they expect drivers to run hard [under a load] and deal with inevitable breakdowns on their own and best-case scenario, limp trucks/trailers to repair shops where we wait without pay short of a full layover.

It's one thing to have a breakdown every blue moon. It's another to have a breakdown every other week [my experience] and still be expected to clock 4000+ miles or deliver the load on time [or else be a "work in" at a miserable DC and waste more hours not driving and fighting for measly detention].

My response to the above situation was to push back about frequently extending my 14-hr clock, losing sleep, and not getting paid for the time wasted waiting on repairs. If your equipment requires me to stop my clock for more than 4 or 5 hours on a frequent basis, then in the short-term the load needs to be rescheduled and I'm not turning a wrench until we agree on pay.

In the long-term, I'm not sticking around.

Once in a blue moon breakdown with breakdown pay and load rescheduling if needed? Heck yeah- suck it up, wait for the cavalry or turn a wrench, extend the clock, and get down the road on the improved split sleeper regs.