Providing warnings that a Texas Coastal port will be closing its gates due to severe weather

tarmadilo · Jul 30, 2021

I often drive across I-10 from Louisiana through Houston and then down US 59 to Laredo, and I do pickup loads at Port Arthur and Beaumont. I can get far from the coast with 12 hours of warning, if traffic isn’t a nightmare I can do it with considerably less.

I can’t speak for everyone, but I would love an easy link to a warnings page I could just click on and see the current threat level, maybe with forecasts for the next week.

Dave_in_AZ · Jul 30, 2021

Mike Murphy said: ↑

I am a senior research engineer with the University of Texas - Center for Transportation Research. We are studying how to improve truck driver safety and reduce risk of damage to trucks and cargo during severe weather. Our website is at the following link to help verify this is a legitimate post:

Center for Transportation Research | Collaborate. Innovate. Educate.

Click on People in the upper right hand corner of the webpage then Leadership, you will see my name.

I am conducting a survey of truck drivers about driving during severe weather, however I was asked a question during a meeting yesterday and would appreciate your thoughts about providing the best answer:

I was asked, How many miles / or how much time warning does a trucker need before arriving at a Texas port city (Houston, Galveston, Corpus Christi, Beaumont, Freeport etc.) that a port will be closing its gates due to severe weather? I know the obvious answer is 'As many miles / or as much time as I can get !' However, the reality is that there will be a constraint on how many miles away from the port DOT message signs can display 'port abc will close September ww at noon'

Another idea is to create a system somewhat like Amber Alert but would send truckers who provide their cell number with a message that the port will close on a certain day and at a certain time.

Some truckers have responded to the survey and said 'just close the port 48 hours before the hurricane hits !' However, often the exact path of the storm might not be know that far in advance.
We've found that more truckers have had damage due to high winds than flooding, high winds occur due to hurricanes, tropical storms along the Gulf Coast and also occur at Laredo / Nuevo Laredo and in the Franklin Mountains near El Paso ------ strong enough to roll a semi.

You thoughts and comments on these questions would be appreciated.

Thanks very much,
Mike Murphy
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How much money is involved? Do I have any other options or is this the only load available?

Case in point-

Two years ago when the ( 5th? ) largest hurricane ever recorded was headed up the east coast of Florida I was in Chicago.

My load canceled. There was a load available from a really nice agent to Florida that paid A LOT. First stop.....Melbourne.

Where was monster hurricane headed? Melbourne.

So given the option of sitting in Chicago for nar 3 days or doing battle with a monster hurricane, I chose the hurricane.

Got on down there and.........it stopped. Moved up the coast and went and attacked our corporate headquarters. Which I thought was most awesome, and I still thank God for all the time.

Drivers with any sense, and we're getting fewer all the time, will make it through severe situations.

Information is power though.

RockinChair · Jul 30, 2021

[QUOTE="Mike Murphy, post: 11495381, member: - Dallas is about 230 miles north of Houston (+/-) on IH 45. So 300 miles would be just south of the Oklahoma / Texas border. Austin is roughly 170 miles north-west of Houston on US 290 ---- then a straight shot north on IH 35 to either Fort Worth or Dallas. San Antonio is about 200 miles west of Houston on IH 10 - so 300 miles would be getting into the rural western part of Texas around Junction. The Texas / Louisiana border is about 100 miles east of Houston on IH 10. Thus it looks like TxDOT could cover the bases north, and west ---- but not 300 miles to the east within the state's jurisdiction. [/QUOTE]

Considering the approach path of most hurricanes, and considering that hurricanes can easily deviate from the spaghetti models, if a storm was anticipated to hit Houston I would not want to travel any portion of I-10 east of Houston regardless of state lines.

And to your point regarding mileage, perhaps 150 to 200 would have been a better radius. Also, a lot of containers travel between the Ports of Houston and those at Laredo and Brownsville, so a corridor focus would likely increase the overall effectiveness of the campaign.

PacoTaco · Jul 30, 2021

Dave_in_AZ said: ↑

Drivers with any sense, and we're getting fewer all the time, will make it through severe situations
Click to expand...

And that's the problem - due to ignorance and/or lack of English language skills some drivers won't stop until it's too late no matter how much information is available to them.

SteelCityGrinder · Jul 30, 2021

We just transported a car to Freeport. We run out of Pennsylvania. The route my driver was taking was (3) three days drive time. Once the truck is loaded it is stuck until the load comes off. I now realize i have to watch weather. One driver in a port the other in hurricane area.

Six9GS · Jul 30, 2021

Mike Murphy said: ↑

RockinChair -

Thank you very much for this information - Dallas is about 230 miles north of Houston (+/-) on IH 45. So 300 miles would be just south of the Oklahoma / Texas border. Austin is roughly 170 miles north-west of Houston on US 290 ---- then a straight shot north on IH 35 to either Fort Worth or Dallas. San Antonio is about 200 miles west of Houston on IH 10 - so 300 miles would be getting into the rural western part of Texas around Junction. The Texas / Louisiana border is about 100 miles east of Houston on IH 10. Thus it looks like TxDOT could cover the bases north, and west ---- but not 300 miles to the east within the state's jurisdiction. Problem is that the section of IH 10 between Houston and Louisiana was the part that flooded during Harvey - extremely unusual; 18-wheelers parked along the IH 10 shoulder with water over their fenders!. Besides the ITS message boards and the 'Amber Alert' idea, are there other methods for getting the message to truckers when they are on the highway? Some truckers say 'CB radios are the fastest communication' but few truckers still use CBs.

A second question I've been exploring is providing 'safe' parking for truckers on the approach routes to the coast and what truckers would consider to be 'safe parking'. One trucker stated in the survey that 'safe' means off the highway, not parked on the shoulder or along ramps. However, it seems that there would be other issues such as parking far enough away from the hurricane impact area such that truckers aren't fighting high wind speeds. I watched a trucker's video while he was driving in Wyoming in 65 mph winds, he lowered speeds and stayed left - but from his video cam he was in a dangerous situation with no place to park. He said one problem was other truckers sometimes drive faster and when they pass his truck their trailer sways so there's risk of a collision. High winds are more dangerous to truckers than flooding based on comments from the survey.

Thanks again ----- I'd appreciate hearing from other truckers on this point.

Mike
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I-80 along Wyoming is infamous for high wind situations. They have numerous truck parking lots for such situations. Also, on Wyoming's DOT website, they have a very good road status section and a driver can easily find out potential road hazards along different stretches of Interstate or Highway.
I suggest you contact States like Wyoming and Nebraska and gain insight on how they handle adverse weather stuff. Seems to me you don't need to invent the wheel from scratch. Other States have similar enough situations and can learn much from them about what actually works and what doesn't.
My 2 cents at least!

Mike Murphy · Jul 31, 2021

I very much appreciate all of the excellent discussion about how to communicate emergency messages to truckers while on the road regarding severe weather. I agree that there is likely not a 'one size fits all' solution - likely what is needed is a set of solutions which the port / state agencies would implement based on the circumstances.

Regarding 'Qualcomm' mentioned by NavigatorWife, I've visited their website and will make a few comments regarding 5G cellular, based on our current knowledge of communications technologies for Road Side Units (RSU) with regard to Infrastructure to Vehicle communications (V2i). RSUs are the technology that state agencies are / will be implementing to communicate information from infrastructure (bridges, roadway, traffic signals, signs, traffic conditions, crash locations etc.) directly to travelers vehicles.

1) The US (or EU / Asia) 5G cellular will require significant investment to build out a network large enough to support the traveling public across the nation. China has already taken a bold step and plans to implement a network of 10 million 5G cellular towers to provide nationwide coverage - however this will take years to complete.

It is our understanding that 5G companies are focusing heavily on the autonomous vehicle industry as customers (the vehicle, not the driver's cell phone) - in particular the infotainment systems in autonomous vehicles which can benefit significantly from the high download rate offered by 5G (1 gigabit / s) to download movies, games and other large files. However, the tower to tower transmission distance of 5G is much shorter than 4G so much more expensive --- this means a lot more towers and $$$. Also, 5G cellular is millimeter wavelength and there are health concerns that have not yet been addressed regarding 5G transmissions passing through humans. Cellular customers alone who have smart phones won't provide the customer base 5G companies need as stated - that's one of the reasons autonomous vehicles including autonomous trucks are front and center..........this is what I immediately thought when I heard Qualcomm = 5G.

If you have different opinions / information I'd appreciate hearing from you. We've looked at Dedicated Short Range Communications (DSRC) such as is used at toll gantries, 4G and 5G cellular for RSU safety message distribution to V2I / I2V communications enabled semi-autonomous vehicles. This is a big topic among DOTs who want to inform travelers / truckers as early as possible about crashes, construction zones, Signal Phase and Timing (SPaT), weather conditions and road closures.

Perhaps the RSU safety messages could also be communicated using AM/FM radio frequencies (or 5G - Qualcomm) though I need to learn more.

2) I am interested in the idea of thinking about severe weather messaging in terms of time, rather than distance mentioned by Accidental Trucker.........though again, I think the reason that I was asked about how far away from the port (in miles) does a trucker need information that the port will close is focused on communications through ITS signs operated by the DOT. I need to ask more questions to our study sponsors in this regard.

3) The video PacoTaco posted of the HEB truck rolling over due to high winds is one I've not seen before - though I have seen several videos of this type. A very large LTL carrier we interviewed who operates double bottom 28-1/2' trailers, in addition to a smaller fleet of 45', 48' and 53' trailers indicated that the double 28-1/2' trailers are more stable in high winds than any of the single unit trailers due to their higher torsional stiffness. If you watch the videos showing the wind acting against the trailer (sail area) the rear tandem will lift first and you can see the trailer top frame twist and roll the trailer and finally the tractor over on its side.

I also read on a trucker's blog that a trucker who operates in Wyoming would much prefer driving a turnpike triple with 3 28 1/2' trailers in high winds than any other configuration regardless if it a Longer Combination Vehicle (LCV) or a standard configuration.

Again, I've seen charts showing the relationship between truck load, wind speed and truck speed which helps provide some guidance when a trucker needs to pull over - though no reference citation was given for this chart.

4) Regarding truck parking in Texas - you might be interested in the following reports which discuss the current status of truck parking and also provides information about the location of parking across the state.

https://ftp.txdot.gov/pub/txdot/move-texas-freight/studies/truck-parking/final-report.pdf

https://ftp.txdot.gov/pub/txdot/move-texas-freight/studies/truck-parking/technical-memos/2.pdf

TxDOT won a $7 million grant from FHWA to improve truck parking along IH 10 in Texas and 3 other states.

I will guarantee you (based on personal interactions and discussions) that the Texas State Legislature, Texas Department of Transportation, Texas Department of Motor Vehicles and Texas Department of Public Safety (and University Researchers) know how much trucking and truckers contribute to the public in Texas and nationwide. You have our respect for the job you do.

Currently trucks move about 1.2 billion tons of freight per year in Texas which is valued at $1.6 trillion. The amount of freight transported by trucks is forecast to double by 2045 ------- thus we have a lot of work ahead of us to help make the system safe for the trucking community.

The part UT-CTR is working on right now is one part of a much larger puzzle to achieve this.

Thanks to all of you again who are responding to this thread, I really appreciate it.

Mike

tscottme · Jul 31, 2021

I think a phone number drivers can call to hear an announcement about port operations would work. That isvhow a large manufacturer announces snow day to employees. It's much simpler than a web site.

Wasted Thyme · Jul 31, 2021

Honestly. I feel it's a waste of taxes. Use the money to improve the road and add more parking. Drivers can call the port to see if they are open. Just like any other shipper/receiver. The driver is going to stop based on common sense or not.

tarmadilo · Jul 31, 2021

70s Trucking said: ↑

@Mike Murphy You seem to be well meaning but @bzinger gave the best answer. I’m 42 years in the trucking business and very familiar with the hurricanes on the gulf coast and I can tell you I’ve had many dispatchers over the years try to send me into the direct path of a hurricane or other bad weather event.

I tell them the same thing I’ll tell you.

I’m the captain of the ship I’ll monitor the weather myself and I’ll tell you whether or not I’m coming.

You don’t tell me EVER !!!!!!!!

You seem to have the same attitude that truck drivers need to be told when it’s safe by you smart office people with your college degrees and there is no way some uneducated trucker could possibly ever know something that you don’t know.

If you want to help drivers when bad weather is happening don’t try to notify drivers. Instead notify the dispatch offices of every company that you do business with and tell them not to give us a hard time and give us the same respect to make the decision as you would an airline pilot or captain of a container ship coming into port.
Click to expand...

I think he’s trying to set up a system for telling us when the ports are closing, not anything else. Of course we make the final decision on going if they’re not closed, but that’s not he’s talking about.

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