Insight On SAIA

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I really don't have much insight on Saia as far as P&D goes, I am a line driver for them, one thing I can answer though is when I was domiciled at the TSN terminal is that the P&D drivers had both a pallet jack and hand truck provided to them, and they would keep them locked up with a cable and their pad lock at the terminal.

 

There are sleeper trucks but those are for teams, solo line drivers are in day cabs, being home every day depends on the terminal you are at, if there is no openings for a assigned bid run when you hire on, you will be what they call a systems driver, and depending on what central dispatch has going on you may do a run and be back the same day, or do a layover run, or worse case scenario you may be out all week, but they will make sure you are back home for the weekend, I was a systems driver for almost 2 years before I got a bid run, my weeks varied, sometimes I was used to cover a vacationing bid driver which got me home every day, other weeks I got runs where I did two layovers a week, then there were weeks where I left Monday night and didn't get back till Saturday morning the end of the week although overall that was rare, it usually was two days out then back mid week and then maybe another two days out and then back home for the weekend.

 

Oh and since we are in daycabs, Saia puts us up in hotels for layover runs, all line drivers get what's called a CLC card, it's basically a company credit card for getting hotel rooms.

 

Not sure how it is at Saia but I can give you a little perspective from Estes P&D. Disclaimer being that I no longer work there, upon personally choosing to move on from the company last year in 2021. Also disclaimer that yes I do recommend Estes or any other good LTL company for every driver who thinks they might like it, even though it didn't work out for me. So, this post isn't sour grapes or anything like that. I'm just telling it exactly how it was, from my own personal experience.

When @MACK E-6 says not all runs are created equal, well at Estes how it worked (at least last summer when freight was booming) was that you didn't get to go home until the dispatchers said you could go home. The dispatchers however, were basically all twenty something year old females with what I'm assuming were generic college degrees in fields such as Sociology or Philosophy, which nothing wrong with those degrees at all but it was clear they had no clue about the industry or how to manage people in general.

Now keep in mind it's not like I was much older than the dispatchers, but I was certainly one of the younger guys working P&D. So, me being 5 - 7 years older than them was nothing compared to most of the drivers being 45 years of age and older (early 40's was considered young at that terminal, to give you some perspective).

I only mention the ages because going back to what I said, at Estes you were SUPPOSED to get approval from the dispatchers each and every day before you went home. Well, the veteran guys didn't care. They would finish their last runs, turn in the paperwork (which was in an office seperate from where the dispatcher room & drivers room was) then they would go to the drivers/dispatchers room at around 5:00pm - 6:00pm. Which at that time period, it was when the drivers lounge was full and it was always a 5 minute wait to even talk to the dispatcher because of all the drivers getting back from their daytime runs.

So what the veteran drivers would do, many of whom had been with Estes for a decade or even decades (plural), they would come into the drivers lounge and swipe their punch out card and then walk right back out and go home. They didn't even talk to the dispatchers to see if they had anymore work for them like they were supposed to.

So, what happened to guys like me is that I would end up working 12-14 hour shifts (with no overtime until the 52nd hour worked that week), with one measly 30 minute break the whole day. I think in part that happend because the veteran drivers were refusing to go back out after their normal daytime runs and were just punching out without saying anything to anybody. So the extra work was being put on drivers like me, who followed the rules and always asked dispatch if they needed anything else or if I could go home. Which was what management at that Estes Terminal as well as on the Estes training videos said that we were supposed to do.

But I also think my age had something to do with dispatch running me as close to my 14 hour clock each and every day as well. Because the dispatchers were younger and so was I. I don't think the twenty something female dispatchers felt comfortable telling men who were their dad's age that they had to go back out again and that the 10 hour day that they had just worked was not enough and that they needed to work more hours for the day. But they had NO problems doing so with me, because I was generally agreeable, I played by the rules and I was way closer to their age than any of the other drivers so they didn't feel as weird (I guess you could say) about telling me to go back out after my daytime run ended (which my daytime runs were always different but that's not really relevant to my story here).

And the bad thing about all this was, was that the head P&D Manager at the terminal (I forgot his exact title, but you had the main boss, then 3 lower level bosses which were the dock boss, P&D boss and the LTL boss), he knew all of this was going on. He did nothing about it the 3 months that I was there. He was a younger guy as well in his mid to late 30's I guess. It could have been he didn't feel comfortable telling drivers 2 decades older than him that they had to work more than 10 hours in a day. Or it could have been he just didn't care. He came in at 6:00am and by 4:00pm you best better believe he was walking out that door to go home. 9.5 hours of work (because you know he's not missing his 30 minute lunch) was MORE than enough for him, but of course he had no problems working the P&D guys 12-14 hour days.

So who knows, it was just a really bad situation in that regard and it all could have 100% been avoided had management been competent and good at their jobs and done their jobs like they were supposed to. You might be reading this and think to yourself "Well this guy sounds like a complainer, sounds like he was getting good hours". Well, if you can CONSISTENTLY do the 35-40 minute commute (each way) to work, work 12-14 hours per day with one tiny little 30 minute break in between and average 62 - 65 hours in a 5 day work period, then more power to you. I couldn't and I burned out hard on that. I'm sure overtime not starting until the 52nd hour at Estes probably had a lot to do with burning out hard on that as well.

So, going back to what @MACK E-6 said, yes all runs are not created equal but by the same token, not all dispatchers and workplace environments are created equal either. You are going to have to interact with dispatch a LOT MORE than you have to do so when you drive OTR. And that can either be a blessing or a curse. And I should throw out the disclaimer that the dispatchers, while at times unprofessional (which is a whole other story), were not bad people and I think they were genuinely good people.

But, they were still a curse to me because you can't run an effective (P&D) barn if management doesn't play by the rules for ALL drivers, no matter what our ages or backgrounds are. It really made me angry that they were taking advantage of me like that and would not say a word to the veteran drivers just walking out each and every day without asking dispatch if they had anything else that dispatch needed them to do. I might not have been a veteran Estes P&D driver and I may not be an older guy, so while yes I always show respect to my elders at the same time I'm not young enough or inexperienced enough in the CDL world to put up with that. I wasn't the only one either, turnover at least in the summer of 2021 was very high at the terminal that I worked at.

So I kind of rambled here and you're probably thinking "Well that sounds like a lot of drama". Yeah. Yeah it was.

It was a lot of uneccessary stress. In a way that an OTR dispatcher and workplace can never really compare. Because you don't interract with OTR co-workers or dispatch or management NEARLY as much as you will if you're a local driver. So while you are asking about the physical conditions of what a local P&D job entails, do not forget about the mental conditions that you will face as well. Good management (and I'm including dispatch in the term management as well) are worth their weight in gold at LTL companies on the P&D side. They can make working there a pleasure or they can make your life hell (even if they are nice people).

And last, I mean no disprespect to anybody when I say this, but if the terminal you're looking at has management THAT HAVE ACTUALLY DRIVEN A SEMI TRUCK IN THEIR LIFETIME, then I think that is a good sign. For the record, the dispatchers and the head P&D boss in my story had never driven a semi truck in their lives, hell I don't think any of them had even stepped FOOT into one at least once in their lives. Make of that what you will with what I just described in this post.

But again every terminal is different with management, work culture and all of that so you might not experience anything like what I just wrote about. Although you will have to interract with people, in general, a hell of a lot more than you do OTR. That is assured.

 

Are you at Estes Mack? If so and you haven't heard of having to get approval from the dispatchers before leaving for the day, then maybe that wasn't in one of the training/orientation videos that I watched like I thought it was. I could have sworn I saw something about it in either orientation or training videos though. I could be wrong though.

At any point, that 100% was a policy at the Charlotte, NC Terminal. I can't remember exactly the scenario but one week they just laid into me hard. I think I was at around 40 hours for the week by the time I went home late Wednesday night. Just dog #### tired and Tuesday and Wednesday were at about 13.5 hours forced days. Again, this is doing P&D with only one 30 minute break during the day. Plus 35-40 minute commute each way (which isn't Estes problem but still, it needs to be accounted for on the fact that I'm a human being who needs to eat and sleep).

So that Wednesday when I was finaly finished for the night I left a note with one of the "night clerks" (he wasn't a dispatcher, he was a night clerk, he only handled paperwork). So anyways I wrote and left a note for one of the night clerks to give to dispatch. In the note it was explained how many hours they had worked me, I was tired and I was going to be coming in one hour late to work. I was just so #### tired (excuse my language) and I needed sleep. I was exhausted both physically and mentally.

So I came in one hour late the next day and guess what?

The P&D Manager, one of the 20 year old dispatchers and another guy who was in management (he wasn't the head P&D, LTL or dock manager, but he was in a management position similar to them he did all the orientations and stuff) called me into a meeting as soon as I came into work.

Anyways, the 3 of them took me into the other managers room and proceeded to tell me right away that I didn't get to decide when I wanted to come in, that's not how it worked in LTL. That I had to come in at my start time. I told them that was fine, but to stop working me so many hours and that being at almost 40 hours in 3 days was ridiculous and I was tired. I needed sleep. And that I didn't want to work more than 12 hours in a day, much less 13.5 and pushing right up to the 14 hour mark.

They then told me that they could legally work me as much as they wanted within my DOT HOS. I then got really pissed off because keep in mind this is all going down because I was so tired that I wanted an 11 hour break instead of a 10 hour break so that I could sleep.

So I then replied to them something like:

"Correct, you can legally work me as much as you want to within the DOT Hours of Service, just like it is within my right to let you guys know when I am too fatigued to SAFELY operate a Commercial Motor Vehicle and I can refuse to do so at anytime if I feel I'm endangering myself and others on the road due to lack of sleep for working so many hours in such a short time period."

They didn't like that. The P&D manager raised his voice and was about to say something but the other manager stopped him. The other manager knew I was right to say what I said. I know my rights as a driver and what I am legally allowed to do.

So the other manager says that yes I am correct in saying that I am legally allowed to tell them when I am too fatigued to operate a CMV. He said that what I need to do if I am too fatigued to come into work is to call up to the terminal 1 hour before my start time and NOT let them know the night before.

I was pissed.

So I told him something like:

"You guys have worked me almost 40 hours in a 3 day time period, which I did not want to do. So you're telling me that today I should have woken myself up 1 hour earlier, to call you guys to let you guys I was too fatigued to work, and then try to go back to sleep after I am wide awake due to picking up the phone and speaking with you guys and then having to get up and use the bathroom, So now instead of me being 1 hour late to work, I would have been about 3 hours late to work because it would have taken me an hour or so to fall back asleep, if I could even get myself back to sleep."

He then said yes. That's what he wanted me to do to combat fatigue in the future. Was to wake up early and call them. Instead of being proactive and letting them know the night before even if I know the limits of my body and know whether I'll need more sleep or less sleep.

I bit my lip and said ok. I was pissed. But I stuck around, because I wanted to give P&D a real chance.

Anyways that's in the past now. I'm just saying that the OP was asking insights on Saia and seemed to be focusing on the day to day parts of the job and the physical parts of the job, while I was just giving my $0.02 as to the ######## that I went through mentally when I made the switch from OTR to local work.

I should also say @MACK E-6 that I'm not a complainer. But come on. 40 hours in 3 days is downright ridiculous. OTR the most I have ever worked was 12 hours and that is incredibly rare and has always been 100% of my own choosing. And when I say worked 12 hours I'm not including sitting in the sleeper birth or waiting in a dock, I'm talking 12 hours of on duty time including driving. Again, incredibly rare that I pull a 12 hour On Duty + Driving Time shift in one 14 - 17 hour period (17 hours with the 3 hour split sleeper). And after those 12 hours worked I always get a 10 hour or 7 hour break to get some proper sleep (and a REAL 7-10 hour break, with no commute time included).

It was just ridiculous how they worked me like that week after week after week. Not to talk bad about the twenty something year old dispatchers but every single one of them were heavily obese. It was incredibly frusterating to see obese people working me in a way that they themselves could not do in a million years at their own fitness and stamina levels (not at their body weights and physical conditions). Not to be funny man but do you know how pissed off it made me when I would get back to the terminal after having worked 11.5 hours (not including my 30 minute break) and ask them if I can go home, and they are all chomping away at Bojangles Fast Food (it's like KFC for you non-Southerners) and telling me with a mouthful of Cajun Filet Biscuits that I need to go on another run that's going to take me 2 hours to get back to the terminal, thus making me have a 13.5 hour workday? That sucked. It sucked bad.

Like, they just had no empathy for other people when it came to how they "managed" us. Just a complete lack of leadership and even maturity. Every single one of them worked a 10 hour shift and that was IT. Never more. Management did NOT lead by example, they did not pull the 12-14 hour days that they were expecting me and some of the other P&D guys to pull day after day after day.

There was a P&D guy at the terminal who was new to the terminal the last month or so I was there. He transferred from a New Jersey Terminal. He said at his New Jersey Terminal they were only working 50 hours per week. I would have KILLED to only work 50 hours per week at the Charlotte Terminal doing P&D!!!! I don't know if he ended up staying with Estes or not but he was getting tired of it too and he told all of his coworkers who he kept in touch with back in Jersey not to transfer down to the Charlotte Terminal, that they would have absolutely no life and would work them to the bone. Ironically enough this guy was a younger guy like myself as well, which is probably one of the reasons they worked him as much as they worked me.

But you know things are downright awful when someone is telling their friends/former coworkers to stay driving a truck in NEW JERSEY TRAFFIC!!!! Lol!

Anyways dont let me postings scare you OP. It might surprise you but I actually don't regret my time at Estes and I'm very grateful that they gave me the opportunity that they did. It's just that sometimes drivers overlook the mental insights, such as dealing with the BS that I just described, when thinking about taking a local job. Something to think about for sure. Definetely try to talk to other drivers at the terminal or even at the truck stops and ask them about the workplace environment (including culture, attitudes and how many hours they are working each week).

 

I love your posts... the details.

Those old-timers ignored some of the rules because they knew they could.
Most newbies don't because they are too timid, but it sounds like you are starting to get your footing in this.

I learned a long time ago that the bosses do not make all the rules.
It is the driver that is safe, on time and reliable that actually makes the rules.
Simple reason being... they can not afford to lose those drivers.