No place to park and out of hours

Why would you fill out you paper log so you cannot make needed amendments? Takes some time to start a new page. Lines can be drawn in seconds. If you get in a accident, will you remember or have time to start a 'legal log page'

I like these posts because it shows how little many drivers understand about logs. For example, is a PT (pre-trip) required? Is a PT fifteen minutes long? How can cell phone records be used against driver? Can cell phone records be used for driver?

 

So here is the trouble with this. If you get in a accident your day will be checked of course. Someone will need to prove the truck is in the wrong. Yes, I know you know this but there are some newbies here.

With a delivery that morning your whole route and time is easily checked, not to mention the truck stop. If you got a pick-up that day, all the worse. So, being a experienced paper-logger, you did indeed leave the truck stop with the proper credentials. You just now know when you must break to update the credentials if need be.

Just helping some understand.

 

Haven't had it happen yet but I'm still new. Fortunately I mostly run I 5 and not a lot of places fill up all spaces. Except the Flying J south of Sacramento, but my company has a terminal in French Camp so if I need to park in that area I have parking. Also in oregon there are several places with truck parking that are not traditional truck stops. Rest areas out here have truck parking and the signs say limit your stay to 8 hours (I'm of the theory that they really mean "8 hours from when someone starts counting" which gives me 10 hours ) because of a shipper delay I almost ran out of hours. Leaving LA there was traffic, the load was going to Sacto and I wanted to clear the grapevine and get into the Central Valley before stopping, I got into the petro at Tejon Ranch with 8 minutes left on the clock..... I was worried there might not be parking, but fortunately there was....

 

Also remember that if you do have a major accident, it won't just be that single day they check, especially if the other party involved wants to sue the trucking company. That attorney will dig up every paper log of yours that he can get ahold of, and if he finds ANYTHING fishy, from ANY date, he'll be more than happy to throw that out in court... "We can see that this driver falsifies his logs every once in awhile... How do we know he didn't do it on this day?" And boom, career over probably jail time too.

Hell, this kind of thing could even happen to guys who run legally and use paper logs. Because they're paper, and because the driver is the one who fills them out, any good attorney could convince a jury that a driver messed up somewhere. With e-logs, can't do that anymore... Can't argue with the unbiased computer.

Looking at it from that perspective, e-logs could really end up being the best friend we ever had one day. There's no logical reason to hate them, because they are programmed with the same regulations that paper loggers are subject to. The only difference is that you can't lie about what you're doing anymore. No reason to be upset about them, unless you didn't log legally in the first place.

 

I absolutely love this post. Especially the second part. Let me see how accurate my knowledge is.

For example, is a PT (pre-trip) required?

Yes, it is required by FMCSA regulations.


Is a PT fifteen minutes long?

There is no specific regulation that places a time requirement on pre-trips. The idea that 15 minutes was required came from the fact that 15 minutes is the shortest time span that you can log on a paper log. On my e-logs, my pre-trips usually range from 8 to 10 minutes. The Illinois state trooper that pulled me over for a random inspection the other night even commented on it, said "Looks like your pre-trip was only 9 minutes long" and I responded by saying "Well, that's how long it took." He laughed and told me that I was one of only 4 drivers that had e-logs that he has met that didn't always make sure the pre-trip was 15 minutes or more. I said that on e-logs, I log it as I do it, and he said that's how it's supposed to be.

How can cell phone records be used against driver?

Holy crap that's a long list. GPS location obviously. Call logs. Text logs. They can look up the GPS history and even tell how fast you were driving at any given moment. They can pull the keystroke log from the operating system and even tell the exact second that you last touched that phone, either a button or on the screen. They could even pull the accelerometer logs and see when the last time the phone was handled for any length of time. They can tell if you plugged the thing into a charger while driving. They can tell whether or not you were actually talking on a Bluetooth headset, a plugged in headset, or the device itself. The list goes on and on.

Can cell phone records be used for driver?

Absolutely. They can use any of the items I mentioned above to prove a drivers innocence in something as well as his guilt. The same goes for the EOBRs as well. If a crooked trooper tries to write me a ticket saying that I was going 80 in a 65 zone, the company can pull the EOBR records from that exact time and tell exactly how fast I was moving, along with a huge number of other things going on at the exact moment it happened.

It's true that a cell phone, EOBR, and dash camera can hang you out to dry... But they can also literally save your money, your career, and your freedom. Big brother might be watching you to make sure you don't break the law, but that also means he's watching when someone tries to accuse you of something you didn't do. The trade off is that you actually have to conduct yourself as a professional driver, not as an outlaw trucker from 20 years ago.

 

nice to come to TTF and hear the standard Mega Orientation Propaganda

reminds me of early nightmares

 

Yes and no. The mega-crap companies put this out to scare the crap out of drivers. This is to put the fear of the almighty company in the driver. While it is true that crap will be dug up what happens a day or two ago has little pertinance to an accident today. After 10 hours rest and another day it is harder to prove the company is liable and that is what any layer is going for:the company and not the driver. There are many cases that prove this.

Elogs can and are cheated too. They are not all run the same. They rely on driver input and that can be more easily cheated then paper.

Elogs offer no protection for the driver. They can be edited by the company and often are. Don't fool yourself.

 

Dude, look, I'm not arguing whether or not fudging your logs is morally right or wrong. Since I don't know you, I can make any judgements as to whether or not you're doing it smartly.

There's a decent possibility that you're one of the smart ones that fudges his logs to maximize his efficiency, and you might be smart enough to know when you're safe to drive and when you're not. I know as well as everyone else here does that there are many days when I could drive for way more than 11 hours and still be safe.

The problem is not with those who actually use their brains and stop when they're not safe to drive. The problem comes into play when you've got the idiot that insists on falsifying his logs and continuing on down the road even though he's falling asleep at the wheel. If all drivers could be trusted to shut the hell down when they're not safe, there wouldn't be a need for logs or regulations at all.

Probably 95% of the drivers out there, if the regulations were revoked tomorrow, would continue to operate their trucks in a safe manner. Some might drive 15 hours in a day, and then sleep when they get tired, and some might only drive only 9 hours because they didn't sleep well the night before.

It's the other 5% that insists on being stupid and taking unnecessary risks that forces all of us to run under regulations. Most likely, you're not part of that 5%.

But the fact of the matter is that we DO have regulations, and if you want to drive a truck, you have to follow them. It has nothing to do with propaganda. It's the truth, plain and simple. There really is no logical reason to hate e-logs if you're following the current laws.

Who knows, maybe in the future someone could come up with some kind of device that can measure how tired you actually are, and that device would allow you to drive until you're not safe to do so anymore. That would be the perfect solution, since they will NEVER be able to design regulations that are perfect for everyone, because every person is different.

 

Yeah, you're right. I didn't think about that, the companies can edit anything they want. But I'm willing to bet that as soon as that becomes a widespread problem, they'll find a way to put a stop to it. E-logs are still relatively new, and I'm sure they'll close the loopholes at some point.

 

I just drive til the clock runs out.