N14 Celect Plus Misfire and Gray Smoke

Discussion in 'Heavy Duty Diesel Truck Mechanics Forum' started by SpeedyGonzalez, Aug 4, 2019.

  1. andrewp

    andrewp Bobtail Member

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    I have both .
    Since I bought the truck it was like this and I'll list what I did so far to try to fix it , unsuccesfully tho .
    1 : replaced the sensors harness and injector harness
    2 : replaced the filter on top of the fuel pump
    3 : replaced the water separator fuel filter housing (it was sucking some air)
    4 : replaced air compressor (not related)
    5 : replaced the fuel shutoff solenoid and engine position sensor .
    6 : performed an overhead adjusent
    HOWEVER , when I went to the shop to change the harnesses , they did find a "broken push rod" , which they replaced .
    After I took it from the shop , it was running really good , it was not smoking at all .
    In the shop they did the harnesses , fuel filter housing , overhead and push rod .
    After a little while it was starting to smoke and miss again , slowly but surely it went to the same problem like before .
    I do have A LOT of algae in my tanks , did not manage to drop and clean them yet , but the thing is , even with new filters it smokes and misses .
    It does it especially when I'm pushing the pedal halfway or so , wjen you floor it , it does not miss at all
     
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  3. SpeedyGonzalez

    SpeedyGonzalez Light Load Member

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    Almost sounds electrical, you said you replaced the injector harness, but did you also replace the pass-throughs in the rocker boxes? Best to check resistance but that means pulling the Jake's to isolate the solenoid from the internal harness.

    Lastly, have you ever replaced injectors? They might just be worn out and not delivering enough fuel without the higher rail pressure that a few hundred rpms due to internal leaks.
     
  4. andrewp

    andrewp Bobtail Member

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    Yes , the pass thru were replaced at the same time . The injectors checked good on insite and the miss is random , not only on specifit injectors . I did not replace any injectors since I bought the truck (748k original miles , yup , a good ole' N14 with low miles lol)
    However , after digging further , I probably figured what's the problem and it is indeed electric . The TPS is worn out and when I push the pedal constantly by hand and wiggle the sensor , you can clearly hear a difference , fingers crossed this will do it , I'll keep you posted once I replace the TPS and hopefuly the harness from TPS to ECM .
     
  5. SpeedyGonzalez

    SpeedyGonzalez Light Load Member

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    That should not be the case, the ECM very carefully monitors TPS input, any misgivings will put in limp mode. The KW mentioned in this thread currently has this issue, the PO cut and used butt end splices and going over a heavy bump will immediately put the truck in limp mode. It may be possible that the sensor is loose and wiggling is just increasing commanded throttle, but a bad TPS will most likely set a fault. The N14s were notorious for injector issues, they are pricey at 300ish a piece, but a random misfire sounds more like injectors to me.
     
  6. andrewp

    andrewp Bobtail Member

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    I totally aggree , I just think that before I go get a six pack in it I'd change the cheaper parts first , can't hurt it anyway . What makes me think this is the issue is that it does not miss at all on cruise , even if it would give it the same ammount of fuel as with the pedal . Also , it will not miss at all on full throttle or little throttle . I'm not an engineer or mechanic , but I believe if an injector is going south , it would miss on cruise as well .
     
  7. andrewp

    andrewp Bobtail Member

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    Alright guys , I'm about to give up on this ...
    Changed TPS - nothing .
    Changed all 6 injectors today - nothing .
    At this point I'm completely lost .
    I have no idea what the hell is going on with it , but it drives me crazy , literally .
     
  8. SpeedyGonzalez

    SpeedyGonzalez Light Load Member

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    How many times have you replaced your fuel filter? We went through 5 fuel filters and 2 fill ups with dropping the last 10 or so gallons out of the saddles before it cleaned up for us. Still running a biocide and have 2 fuel filters in the box just in case. Have you checked your check valve as well? Those are known to get clogged with algae as they are pre fuel filter, clean it up and put it back in. Measuring your fuel suction will tell you if you have a restriction somewhere else.
    The fact that it disappears on cruise has me a bit dazzled, I'm not too familiar with the N14 calibration but it has me wondering if its possible that there's a separate fueling table for cruise control and someone messed with the standard calibration. On the gassers you have a lean cruise table that's completely independent of the normal operation table that is only used when cruise is enabled. But like I said, I've got no experience with diesel ECM tuning. If you're friendly with your local cummins dealer parts person they might be willing to check your calibration ID without charging you, never hurts to ask. But assuming all the new parts were not faulty out of the box, and the overhead is within spec that's the last logical thing to check.
     
    andrewp Thanks this.
  9. andrewp

    andrewp Bobtail Member

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    I left the truck at the shop for further diagnostics because it's really cold outside up here in IL so I can't do almost anything on it .
    The fuel filter is brand new , after an oil change . Like I mentioned before , I do have a lot of algae in the tanks , the truck sat like a year or so before I bought it from the guy . I did treat the fuel with Killem , wich did help , but I guess it's just too much sludge in there to take it out with Killem . Not sure if all N14's use the same setup , but mine has 2 filters . From the tanks , fuel goes to water separator and then to the cooling plate , comes out of the cooling plate and goes to the fuel filter mounted by the engine . The guys from the shop will bypass the cooling plate and filter housings tomorrow to see if it runs finefrom a bucket . Also told them to check and change the check valve , I heard sometimes the spring inside it is weak and it's not working as it should . At this point we have 2 options :
    1 : it's sucking air badly from somewhere (cooling plate likely)
    2 : bad ECM (they have a test ECM to check if it'll with their ECM)
    And lastly , I'll tell them to check the fuel pickup tube , heard a lot of horror stories with those too .
    What did you do to yours to fix it ? You did have basicaly the same issues , right ?
     
  10. SpeedyGonzalez

    SpeedyGonzalez Light Load Member

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    Same issues, the truck still sounds like it misses at idle on a cylinder but it makes great power and out pulls most trucks on some mountain passes according to the driver, hes got a pretty light foot too, and will religiously pull off at 900EGT.

    We did everything driveway mechanic style because we dont have insite... yet. For us we ended up removing the check valve and running an extremely heavy initial dose of a biocide in both tanks and let the truck high idle for a few hours a day, and swapped fuel filters every other day till we stopped seeing jelly in the filters. Then we started doing 50 mile trips bobtail and checking the filters after every trip for about a week. Once we ran fuel level down far enough we pulled the saddle drains and drained the remaining fuel and washed the sides of the tank with alcohol biocide mix and let them air out for a day. Same day we had the saddles airing out we reran the overhead (no difference), inspected the camshaft with a camera. I'm still not 100% sure that the truck is in full working order, but it's been OTR continuously for a couple months now with no issues (knock on wood). The combination of the bad overhead, alage, and injectors had me going between electrical and mechanical issues, but the misfire was constant regardless of cruise or no. Basically, the algae was clogging the filter so it would run great until it drained the fuel in the filter and then it would only idle. The injectors fixed the smoking issue, and the push tubes fixed the miss at idle, although the miss at speed was most likely fuel starvation.


    We checked for pin holes by pressurizing the saddles through the vent tubes to 40PSI and left if over night (unvented caps), came back the next morning and there weren't any puddles and it was at 33PSI so we assumed no holes. It being winter I'd doubt you'd see those kinds of results so I'd honestly just look for a puddle.
    Then we checked fuel suction and pump pressure, both should be stable at idle, if you're sucking air you'll most likely see some fluctuation in the needle pressure side, you'd want to see about 115-130ish PSI pressure side at idle.

    Our largest concern was cleaning the pick up tube screens but thankfully some engineer at KW but the saddle drain bolt directly below the pickup tubes so we were able to get them cleaned out easily, I'd imagine a pin hole in a pickup would be masked with a full tank though.
     
    andrewp Thanks this.
  11. stayinback

    stayinback Road Train Member

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    Sir-Im gonna put my life on the line its the Infamous cooling plate on those N-14's........
    I had a 97 9300 with an N-14- Replace the Cooling Plate- Should run like a top
     
    andrewp Thanks this.
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