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BW 171702 VS BW 172743 waste gated in 12.7 Series 60 Detroit

Discussion in 'Trucks [ Eighteen Wheelers ]' started by allisonisatranny, Apr 2, 2017.

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  1. Apr 2, 2017 #1
    allisonisatranny

    allisonisatranny Light Load Member

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    Oct 6, 2014
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    I'm looking for some input here. I have the stock turbo, its a non waste gated model that only puts out about 20 pounds of boost, with a 430 HP setting mated to an Allison automatic. It's a DDEC 4 model.

    I keep reading that the waste gate kills efficiency upend, but from what I'm reading, the 172743 with waste gate gets better fuel economy and performance. I'm not concerned about fuel economy, I want power when I mash the pedal. I also plan on getting a tune when I'm done. The stock turbo just has too much lag, and takes too long to spool up.

    Here's a website for the 172743:

    https://www.citydiesel.net/hot-rod-...-p-216.html?osCsid=fdkhn665k4c7rjbma3cf49pf52

    Summit has the 171702 here:

    https://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/bww-171702/overview/

    Thoughts? Each of these I'm reading differently, with the non-waste gate generating 40 PSI of boost, and the 171702 generating up to 70 PSI of boost. I don't even know what a safe boost level is on a Series 60 GK engine. Thanks.
     
    allisonisatranny, Apr 2, 2017
    allisonisatranny, Apr 2, 2017
    #1
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  3. Apr 2, 2017 #2
    benjamin260_6

    benjamin260_6 Medium Load Member

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    Aug 8, 2012
    Ontario, Canada
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    I've never used the 172743 so I don't know anything about it. I can tell you this though: If the waste gate opens at 40psi, that means that engine will never be able to produce more than about 650hp. Those 12.7s produce somewhere around 16hp per pound of boost so if you want power, you want boost. The 171702 is a great turbo upgrade for the 12.7. You'll get a little more lag but more top end boost. If you don't want the added lag, upgrade to a high flow manifold/mufflers at the same time. Keep in mind that a turbo rated for up to 70psi isn't going to get you 70psi without a lot of other upgrades. As far as what a Series 60 can take for boost, it all depends on who built it and how the overhead is set. If the liners are on the low end of spec, goodbye head gasket. Much over 50psi and the valve on a lot of them will start to float
     
    benjamin260_6, Apr 2, 2017
    benjamin260_6, Apr 2, 2017
    #2
    rayrojas, 4rdtruck, Ruthless and 3 others Thank this.
  4. Apr 4, 2017 #3
    Peterbiltt

    Peterbiltt Light Load Member

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    Aug 21, 2014
    Ontario Canada
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    benjamin i see you from ontario too, what is your whole setup?
     
    Peterbiltt, Apr 4, 2017
    Peterbiltt, Apr 4, 2017
    #3
  5. Apr 4, 2017 #4
    benjamin260_6

    benjamin260_6 Medium Load Member

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    Aug 8, 2012
    Ontario, Canada
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    2000 Western Star, 14L Series 60, marine injectors/cam, high flow manifold, 177287 Borg Warner turbo, high flow mufflers, fleet air filters, Diesel Spec tuned. It's putting about 875hp to the ground.
     
    benjamin260_6, Apr 4, 2017
    benjamin260_6, Apr 4, 2017
    #4
    dustinbrock, JPenn, MoneyCat and 1 other person Thank this.
  7. Apr 4, 2017 #5
    Redimix

    Redimix Light Load Member

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    Feb 26, 2011
    Dallas
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    Lots of folks post just to post. BUT this fellow knows what he is talking about!! I run the 60 and your answer is spot on correct.
     
    Redimix, Apr 4, 2017
    Redimix, Apr 4, 2017
    #5
    Ruthless, allisonisatranny, MoneyCat and 1 other person Thank this.
  8. Apr 4, 2017 #6
    little cat 500

    little cat 500 Road Train Member

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    Abbottstown PA
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    171701 might work better on 430 hp
     
    little cat 500, Apr 4, 2017
    little cat 500, Apr 4, 2017
    #6
    allisonisatranny Thanks this.
  9. Apr 6, 2017 #7
    allisonisatranny

    allisonisatranny Light Load Member

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    Oct 6, 2014
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    Please explain the differences, I don't know anything about turbo's. Having the Allison 6 speed automatic, I wont weigh more than 45k, I don't care about fuel economy too much. I just want the performance. The most horsepower I plan to do with this engine, is probably 500-550 max, since it's not made to handle high horse power. The turbo lag down low and off the line is a real disappointment, which is why I'm looking at the wastegated turbo.

    I see another part number someone posted up, I don't want to deal with the same issue of turbo lag. That K31 turbo, I'm hoping it puts out more boost as well over my stock non-waste gate.
     
    allisonisatranny, Apr 6, 2017
    allisonisatranny, Apr 6, 2017
    #7
  10. Apr 7, 2017 #8
    catwrench55

    catwrench55 Light Load Member

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    Jan 5, 2015
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    If you want to be peppy off the lime the ecm has to be adjusted to give fuel b4 7 psi boost. Turbo might help a little but not the real issue.
     
    catwrench55, Apr 7, 2017
    catwrench55, Apr 7, 2017
    #8
    allisonisatranny Thanks this.
  11. Apr 8, 2017 #9
    little cat 500

    little cat 500 Road Train Member

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    Abbottstown PA
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    leon can make it run
     
    little cat 500, Apr 8, 2017
    little cat 500, Apr 8, 2017
    #9
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  12. Apr 8, 2017 #10
    benjamin260_6

    benjamin260_6 Medium Load Member

    433
    484
    Aug 8, 2012
    Ontario, Canada
    0
    Are you sure that you have a stock turbo on there now and that it's a DDEC 4? DDEC 4s have waste gates. The fact that your 430 is only making 20psi of boost is a little concerning too. It should be up around 26. Are you sure the gauge is working correctly and that you don't have any leaks? I would check into that before changing your turbo. From what I've been able to find on the 172743, it's similar in size to a stock turbo but it has a more aggressive inducer so it spools a little faster. The 171701 mentioned is like that except it doesn't have the waste gate. In my opinion, the 171702 with the manifold, mufflers and a good quality tune (you usually get what you pay for) is the way to go
     
    benjamin260_6, Apr 8, 2017
    benjamin260_6, Apr 8, 2017
    #10
    allisonisatranny Thanks this.
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