Coconino County, AZ "bans" CB and Ham Radio!

Discussion in 'CB Radio Forum' started by Gadfly, May 5, 2014.

  1. Guntoter

    Guntoter Road Train Member

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    As I stated, there is standing to file with only a citation issued but the only thing you can try to recuperate is the amount of the fine. Why spend $10,000 trying to get a few hundred dollars back? If you can prove that you were injured or your life was adversely effected then you may want to do it. But, you can't claim that you were financially harmed in a business because that means you had a license to conduct that business over the air.
     
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  3. BigBearNY

    BigBearNY Light Load Member

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    I am replying to several posts here. Obviously the FCC supports Amateur radio. And it makes sense. However a Federal rule does not trump a local law... EVER. The feds say I can legally own and possess a fully automatic weapon (aka machine gun) when it is properly licensed and registered. There are federal rules to be followed, tax stamps etc. Where I live in NYC they might just arrest you for even asking about it. Nowhere in New York state can you own a fully automatic firearm. In neighboring Connecticut it's OK. Likewise if you cross the border into Pa. it's OK. As long as you follow the Federal guidelines it's all legal. Cross through NY going from Pa. to Connecticut with your legal fully automatic weapon and get discovered; you will face HEAVY jail time.

    FCC support is no substitute for a law. A federal law that protects your right to legally operate your ham or CB is the only real protection. FCC support is probably a good basis to get such a law passed.
     
  4. 6 Speed

    6 Speed Heavy Load Member

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    Heard today that CB's are now against the law in parts of Arizona. Any truth to this?
     
  5. Gadfly

    Gadfly Medium Load Member

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    I'm sorry, but you are wrong where it concerns radio. While states may control some aspects of the legal arena, they can NOT regulate, control or enforce Amateur, CB, or commercial two way radio. For proof, just look at the license documents at your local police department. It states "Federal Communications Commission". Locals can NOT enforce interference or operations of two way radio, OR your CB station. With certain exceptions AUTHORIZED by FCC, they can NOT come and "inspect" your station, tell you to STOP using your station or fine you for its use. This is due to the Communications Act of 1934, which authorized and created FCC, AND centralized the operations of radio stations. This was because of the nature of radio waves' abilities to cross state and national boundaries. It was ONE legal aspect, due the nature of radio, that had to be centralized under ONE set of rules---NOT under a hodge podge of local rules, authorizations, restrictions and conflicting rules that would vary from state to state, city to city. These regulations put forth by local jurisdictions would defeat the purpose of the Communications Act of 1934 and place two way radio operators, once again, under a plethora of confusing, conflicting and arbitrary rules that purport to stop "distracted driving", but do not achieve that desired result. IOW, it is, as the Federal law now stands, against the law to do this. FCC's control of two way radio is historic, deemed necessary many years ago, its support of Amateur radio and, by proxy, CB and all other forms of two way, is needed now more than ever to protect and facilitate such use! Therefore, I believe that amateurs need to ask for a clarification and renewed statement of support to stem the tide of busybody little legislators who would, on the one hand, give us tickets on Monday for using our radios, then ask us to help on Tuesday during a forest fire. Maybe my reaction is vengeful, but I would be noticibly absent when asked to show up while I have a ticket fresh in my hand from Bubba Cop for doing what has historically been encouraged by the law for 70 years!

    Anyway, I will present a Petition for Proposed Rulemaking to FCC in the near future. I don't think it will TAKE a court case to get this rectified because I firmly believe that the Federal law is on our side due to precedent and the way the laws are now written! IOW, they can't DO that!!!!! Remember: Your CB station IS "licensed" by FCC. It doesn't matter that you don't have to have a paper license in hand, you are STILL licensed by the Federal government! And those historic rules that permitted the use of YOUR radio since 1958 STILL apply!:biggrin_25525: They can't TELL you you can't use your radio!:biggrin_25511:
     
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  6. Ridgeline

    Ridgeline Road Train Member

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    just to mess with everyone


    I mentioned the cell phone ban as possibly being an illegal problem for states and cities, so I asked a couple people who work in communications law and they seem to think the same thing as I do because if I was to subscribe to a radio service, had a radio installed in my truck to communicate to my office, it is off limits for those local and state people to tell me anything about it. An additional question came up about the use of land lines to facilitate long distance communication with trunked/repeater systems which seems to be exempted by states. So I contend that the same holds true for a cell phone, even if land lines are regulated with the states but the connection to the cell phone to that land line is regulated by the feds and being a subscriber is the same as being a subscriber to the radio service.

    They also said that states can't really make a decision what services that a cell phone service can offer - I feel if texting is so dangerous for society, the feds can just tell the cell phone companies to turn off the feature, problem solved. BUT having the ban on texting doesn't do much other than raise revenue.
     
  7. BigBearNY

    BigBearNY Light Load Member

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    Nope.... Go back and check your facts. States cannot change the Federal law but can and have enacted legislation that is more restrictive than Federal law. Case in point in Maryland several "planned communities" enacted restricting antennas, well beyond the limitations of Federal regulations. It was fought by local hams and they LOST. If your facts were accurate law in Arizona would be void. It's called states rights. Try to fight it... Another example of State vs. Federal is the various Marijuana laws. Several states provide for the legal use of Marijuana. You can follow the laws to the letter but the Feds can still come in and bust you for breaking their laws. Usually they won't but they have persecuted individuals inn California at their whim. I am not a recreational or medicinal user of Marijuana but as a cancer survivor I think it's a #### shame that people who are suffering from chemotherapy sickness are often reduced to illegally purchasing weed from a local dealer. I don't reallt give a rat's ##### about recxreational use as iot is no better or worse than alcohol to me... I don't drink myself but don't pass judgement on drinkers or pot smokers.

    No one was saying you can't transmit into the county but transmitting from it is another story. It is a quagmire at best.

    Your petition has a great deal of merit... Count me in...
     
  8. Big_m

    Big_m Heavy Load Member

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    I think that this is dead!
    http://www.arnewsline.org/

    RADIO LAW: FLAGSTAFF CITY COUNCIL REJECTS COCONINO COUNTY
    MOBILE TWO-WAY RADIO BAN

    The city of Flagstaff, Arizona, says that it will not
    enforce the recently enacted Coconino County hands-free
    cellular telephone phone ordinance. One that also bans the
    use of any push-to-talk microphones.
    Amateur Radio Newlines
    Bill Pasternak, WA6ITF, has the details:

    --

    During a recent working session of the Flagstaff Arizona
    City Council, its members rejected the newly enacted
    Coconino County ordinance as being too broad. City
    officials paid particular attention to its ban on the use of
    push-to-talk microphones with two-way radios.

    As previously reported, the Coconino County law not only
    prohibits the use of hand-held cell phones and texting in
    motor vehicles, but also specifically prohibited the use of
    two-way radio using hand held microphones. This includes
    amateur radio, C-B radio and any other form of two-way
    communications that is not hands free. There is a very
    limited exemption for radio amateurs, but only while
    relaying a message between first responders in an emergency.

    In making its decision to opt out, the Flagstaff City
    Council agreed with member Celia Barotz's assessment that
    the ordinance would interfere with an amateur radio
    operators' ability to provide volunteer services and with
    truckers who rely on 11 meter CB radio as a part of their
    jobs. Barotz suggested that the city allow the use of two-
    way radios and focus solely on the issue of texting while
    driving.

    For the Amateur Radio Newsline, I'm Bill Pasternak, WA6ITF,
    in the newsroom in Los Angeles.

    --

    In most states a county ordinance would trump one enacted by
    a city, but under Arizona state law, Flagstaff has the
    option to exclude their community from the new county
    regulation if it chooses to do so. (Nevada Amateur Radio
    Newswire)
     
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  9. Gadfly

    Gadfly Medium Load Member

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    No!:biggrin_255: Still wrong! You are talking about Homeowner Association rules. HOA's are voluntary contracts that are entered into between private parties. Those hams did not have to sign such an agreement by simply not moving into that subdivision. It has nothing to DO with state or federal law. An HOA--which I loathe------(and don't get me started about snot-nosed little busybody HOA nazis) CAN restrict many things--including antennas. What happened there is, hams already lived there, and applied to erect antennas beyond that which the HOA allowed. The HOA turned them down. The hams sued...and lost. :(-----NOT because of a state's law, but because of existing private contract laws. FCC is very reluctant to get too involved in abrogating, or breaking, private contracts. As much as I HATE it, the HOA IS legally right here when you stand strictly upon the law. After all, Ya's didn't have to MOVE in there, and now you want to put up "ugly" antennas (according to the HOA people who think it reduces property values, etc, etc).

    WRT radio, FCC is still the SOLE regulating authority when it comes to two way radio (and other) electronic media such as TV). As to cell phones, these are consumer appliances (under the law) with which one essentially "rents" service from a provider. Since the provider holds any "license", and YOU are simply a user with NO such license, any legal issues accrue to YOU (on the local level) because of the device that facilitates that use. It is clear that the thing that is creating "distracted driving" is the cellphone. So, as an unlicensed appliance user, the local yokels can restrict that use. With the two way radio, YOU as an amateur operator or CB user HAVE a "license" issued to you: a paper document for Amateurs which says you can use your radio under implicit laws or implied encouragement, CBers have a "license" by proxy that says that you have authorization to operate your CB station--so long as you OBEY Part 95, US Code of regulations. Same with commercial two way users. These users, amateur and commercial, especially these two, with their paper documents in hand, are legally able to USE two way radios because of 1) traditional authority, 2) encouragement from FCC 3) Legal precedent (amicus curia brief). It is CLEAR that the problem is caused by CELLPHONE use because of the duplex nature, NOT the two way radio. I want legal clarification because I am sure that local authorities are overstepping their bounds!

    GF
     
  10. Ridgeline

    Ridgeline Road Train Member

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    Michigan
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    OK I guess I will make this simple, outside of HOA (which are unamerican as far as I'm concern) that are a congressionally sanctioned thing, the FCC and the feds derive their power from a treaty made over radio. This is why states can't license radios or have control over them. NYC tried in the 40's and got their hands slapped pretty hard.

    I would agree with you but the cell phone service is just like any other leased or rented radio service where you may own the equipment but you lease the use of the radio frequency (channel) under someone's license. Trunked radio services are one such area where this happens, so they too are a appliance used, not a license holder. I worked for a couple companies that just did that, they leased a channel or two from a company that had multiple repeaters and these companies purchased the radios, had the service program them and just paid a monthly fee.
     
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