Recently landed a national account. Seems like the best way to work it would be with dedicated equipment, as the customer has astronomical amounts of freight (like 1000 loads a day nationwide) and is mostly setup to deal with larger asset based operations.
A lot of the people in this industry I look up to run blended trucking and brokerage operations with lots of leased on owner ops. I'm exploring going this direction.
Please tell me where my numbers are off:
Revenue-
4950 in gross revenue per week per truck. Will actually be 5200 first week and 4700 second week and so on running flexible pickup/drop loads around the midwest.
2100 miles driven
Costs:
My company: 990 at 20%. We'd be settling up for the previous week every friday.
Driver: 1485 at 30%
Leaving 2475 to the truck owner
Fuel at .29 per mile (this week... main customer pays FSC so our rates should move with this) 609 dollars
Truck & Trailer at .24 per mile 504 dollars
Insurance at 375 per week. This is intentionally high, my company has a very old MC and should be able to get fair market insurance. It's also based on the truck only moving 48 weeks a year. I could also theoretically lower the cargo insurance level to 50k assuming the back hauls are compatible.
Maintenance at .20 per mile 420 dollars
Permits and tolls at .02 per mile 42 dollars. I realize that this is probably really high or really low. I can't really get an accurate number from you guys without talking about my routes and my customer and I can't do that.
Stuff happens at .02 per mile 42 dollars per week in random BS happening. Probably low... But I know my model is already cracked out because of the insurance.
When that's all over assuming the owner contributed 65.5k in capital his gross profit is 20k a year for a ~32% ROI. Not too shabby. If the driver is an owner operator he's right under 100k a year depending on how many weeks he drove. At the same time me and my brokerage are cutting out the office staff of the truck we're dealing with. Their cut becomes our cut and it gives us the ability to sell bigger blocks of trucks to our customer.
I'm guessing this math is exactly why so many of you are leased on. What am I missing?
@BoyWander , @rollin coal , @wichris I know you're all involved in this game to one degree or another. Help a guy out?
I think this is what a good leasing on opportunity looks like... but educate me.
Discussion in 'Ask An Owner Operator' started by boredsocial, Dec 26, 2017.
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Wow never been on il,in,oh toll roads before in 18 wheels have you.. 4950 to truck a week is low I am in a van and I expect 6000 min a week ,then it also depends on equipment van,flat,reffer, rgn .
I consider maitanace and or new truck payment to be the same amount about 2500 month.
so driver makes out well .
4950- 1485 driver =3465 - fuel 1000 = 2465 - 650 payment tractor only = 1850- insurance 375 = 1475- your cUT at 20% -990 = 485 profit for the truck owner ,if nothing happens like stuck in snow tow 600 ,nothing happens the reward for the risk is too low to consider. You should buy your on truck and trailer hire your own driver. Pay your own insurance breakdown ,tolls,, I would not accept such a low reward / risk low % but some eastern euro
opens and ,other will .
This is my. And this is my opinion and no one else's living in a truck 5,6,7 days a week is no fun you need to try it sometime ,then your opinion how cheap a truck and a driver would be to you.
but in the same token that's $2.35 a mile for a van that's OK but for a flat that's poor and a reefer that's poor.Pieter78 Thanks this. -
Truck and trailer expense you show is 1998 cost. A modern truck is closer to $200k and trailers can be closer to $50k plus.
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An important thing to note here is that I'm basing my revenue numbers on reality for the long term. Obviously under current market conditions I wouldn't even haul this customers freight... But current market conditions are temporary. This customers freight can be setup on contract at rates that are very favorable for years to come because of today's market. I think that locking that up is the smart play. Some may disagree.
I'm getting 1900 from the customer on a 700 mile front haul (this rate is stable and constant going forward) and then taking whatever I need to take to get back. I'm building it into the numbers at 2 bucks a mile, but the current market rate is closer to 2.50. Obviously we'll make more when making more is possible, but I wanted to build the model around what I can be sure of. -
ok just so I get this right.
You 'landed' a national account without these numbers in place?
Also it isn't clear to me what you are really doing, maybe it is the lack of business speak I share with the rest of you.
First who is going to own the trucks, you or an owner?
You mentioned an owner a couple times but to me and maybe it is my training to rip these things apart that is causing my rude take on it but honestly, as an owner I wouldn't consider your proposal as valid if I needed to put some trucks somewhere because, I don't see the distinction in your first post.
The same thing goes for drivers. I mean are you employing drivers for the owner's trucks so they are providing the assets to get the job done and getting a return in exchange?
Then you listed the numbers, whose are those numbers, an owners or yours?
ALSO cargo insurance is a liability insurance, you did say $50k, not a typo, right? don't be cheap because you may be sued by the receiver of the product and as a carrier you're on the hook so if you are hauling $30k worth of product and your truck takes a nosedive off a cliff and they have to stop production or screw up delivery times, that can be on you and cost way more than the $20k you have left. What I'm surprised about is this national company not putting a requirement to maintain something like $250k or $500k in the contract - with my dedicated routes I have a million in cargo liability.
To me an owner is not going to have you concern with his breakdown of his costs of running his business, which is why I'm confused. I sure the hell won't discuss that with those who are my customers, my only concern is these two things - the base rate to the truck for each load and the accessorial fees that are worked out between the contracted shipper and the broker/carrier for the owner to be compensated, like for example lift gate use or hand unloading. My contract with you is for 100% of those fees no matter what. FSC is something else but not as important as those other fees because FSC is a given.
I never ever bank on long term anything, that's dumb to do. YOU don't have an exclusive contract with any national shipper, they would never allow that to happen for anyone without the assets in place so the best I can see is that you need to assume this will be an annual review with that company and to be prepared to renegotiate the terms at that time. I go through this with all the dedicated work, it is normal for it to happen.TripleSix, Oldironfan and Justrucking2 Thank this. -
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I landed the account as a broker. It's good for 20-30 loads a week for me currently. But if I want to do more than pick up the crumbs that fall off the table I need regular trucks. Leasing on owner ops is what I'm exploring.
I'm consciously choosing to divide the revenue to the owner op into two categories 'driving' and 'owning'. I think that most owner ops would be much better off if they split the two things when figuring out whether owning the equipment is even worth doing. I also suspect that this freight is good enough for fleet owners... So figuring out what their numbers look like was important to model as well.Last edited: Dec 26, 2017
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EDIT: Now all I have to do is sell my brokerage on it. But I really truly want to be 100% certain I'm not going to look stupid proposing this. This is not a small change in how the company operates. This is a BIG move. The first of my career really. But I have a sneaking suspicion that the whole reason this job fell to me is that they knew where it was going. Smart people my brokerage.Last edited: Dec 26, 2017
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I was making sure the numbers are close to right because I'm looking to lease on owner operators. I care quite a lot about whether or not it's a good business decision for them or not. Happy drivers don't turn over. Unhappy drivers turn over and cause service disruptions that I have to paper over with the brokerage. Doable, but annoying.
You're certainly right that the contract would get renegotiated every year. That's fine with me. I'm used to negotiating the price on every single load both ways. This would be a wonderful change. The customer isn't going to be going cheap in the future. Cheaper perhaps but they have a long way to go before they are anything approximating cheap freight.
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