Logbook Trick..and its legal

Discussion in 'PAM' started by Peterbeatinit, Mar 9, 2012.

  1. Peterbeatinit

    Peterbeatinit Medium Load Member

    340
    119
    Mar 8, 2012
    San Antonio Tx
    0
    HOS states: You are allowed a total of 70 hrs of on duty time including driving for an 8 day period right?

    Now..if you take 70 and divide by 8 you get 8.75 hrs

    Most load planners that know what they are doing plan loads if and at all possible based on that 8.75 hr on duty time and if the driver stocks to it as close as he can and stays off duty exactly 10 hrs and not a minute more he'll deliver on time, pick up on time, and it will be easier for his fm and load planners to keep him under a load, and he will become a popular driver because he doesn't have to sit through a 34 hr restart..now..rules may have changed a bit since 06 but not enough to prevent that..

    If he sticks to it..he'll be safer, always be well rested and always be on time..even DOT won't fault him for it..they may question it a bit and double check him if his total on duty time is always 8.75 hrs in his log but as long as his fuel stops match, his Bills of lading time stamps match, then they can't do anything about it.

    It is the fully legal way to keep rolling..

    Now lets put it down monetarily shall we?

    Lets say his company pays him .25 cpm His truck is governed at 65 mph..that means at most he can legally log at a speed average of 55 mph which gives you a maximum travelled distance of 550 miles in an 11 hr drive time but in doing so means that in just over six days..hes out of hours forcing a 34 hr restart before day 8 of his time in the truck ok..

    550x6 is 3300 miles at 55 mph as long as he is under one load and moving the whole time..not facturing in stops at shippers/consignees/unload times etc so at day six he's facing out of hours and 34 hr restart which means hours won't fall off for one and a half days or reset to 70 so in either case he's parked..so for day 7..no miles..he's sitting, eating, and losing money

    now..lets do scenario 2..perfect world conditions like above...one load, no stops etc..

    55s8.75=481 miles for the day x7 for the week 3368 miles and he's still rolling and will always hae 8.75 hrs avail to drive..never has to park the truck for more than ten hours per day

    so..lets put it to money....25x3300x52=42900 gross for the year
    .25x3368x52=43784 gross for the year

    :biggrin_2558:

    Now..if you are driving team..how does that work..I'll show you..

    driver one drives 8.75 hrs..stops the truck..wakes up partner..they go have breakfast, shower, etc for a hour and 15 minutes..partner has now been off duty for ten hours..he hops in driver seat..drives 8.75 hours while driver one sleeps..there is still 6 and a half hours left in the day when he stops..again..shower/eat/laundry for hour and 15 min..which leaves 5.25 hours left before end of 24 hr period right?..right..but you don't want to move the truck before the end of the 24 hr period or you screw up the system..

    lets do the same match..the truck has rolled for 17 and a half hours at 55 mph average...

    17.5x55=962 miles x 7=6734 miles over 7 days..no 34 hr restart..both drivers well rested..laundry done..ate well..safe so able to do those miles for a full two or three weeks..able to do..reember..this is a perfect world talking here. 1683.50 to the truck x 52=87542.00 to the truck for the year devided by 2 for the yar per driver

    Now its not a perfect world..some days you might have to drive 9 hours to get to someplace to have breakfast or whatever..somedays 8..the point is..bank your hours..never use the full 11/14 in the course of a day and try to stay close to the 8.75..You'll avoid losing a day and a half waiting on your logs to reset...keep a running tally of over or under that mark as you go s you an try to adjut it out with your partner during the week...you drive 9 one day..next day you drive 8.5 so you gain back that fifteen minutes in the bank..

    If you sit down on your next load thats on the money on its delivery time..(3 day trip and delivers in 3 days sort of thing) and you figure out the exact miles from shipper to consignee and devide it up based on 8.75 hours driving etc you can figure your cycles through on duty and off duty and you'll realize you should make it with time to spare.

    Petey
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2012
    NEWEST NEWBY and DocFrank Thank this.
  2. Truckers Report Jobs

    Trucking Jobs in 30 seconds

    Every month 400 people find a job with the help of TruckersReport.

  3. MNdriver

    MNdriver Road Train Member

    7,985
    4,354
    Feb 24, 2012
    0
    numbers are fun ain't they....

    All for $900 over the course of the year.

    Our company I am told likes us to push it and take a 34 hour reset at home on the weekend. The guy who helped me get the job has only been doing that for 9 years.
     
  4. Peterbeatinit

    Peterbeatinit Medium Load Member

    340
    119
    Mar 8, 2012
    San Antonio Tx
    0
    If you are home very weekend great...you can do that

    Pam likes folks to stay out between 2 and three weeks..thats potentially 3 days parked out on the road waiting on your logbook to reset..with me?

    if you stick to the numbers as close as you can..you don't lose tose three days over the three weeks....ov course they want you to push hard..its three days they don't have to pay you..what they don't think about at the dispatch level is its also three days (2 34 hr restarts) that the company isn't getting paid too...

    Those were figured at .25 cpm..now figure it at crete at .34 cpm..or an owner op at 1.25 cpm plus fuel surcharge per mile as well...That 900 bucks turns into much bigger numbers quick...for an owner operator..its a tractor payment extra each year if not more.....

    I'm not a rookie mind you.In 05 I finished a lease with central refrig, traded that tractor for a brand new 05 pete and went ad pulled for john christner out of sepulpa ok until I got hurt..I was doing quite well and my truck was never out of hours..I didn't have ba logs in safety department and I was always loaded...yeah I would do 34's at home..but didn't have to and I never sat unless I was home...and when I say never I mean never..barring truck break down because my dispatcher and planners knew I had at least 8 hrs to run each day..I never had a late delivery either..they figured their loads at 55 mph at 8.75 miles per day

    If they don't run it like that..then they shouldn't be load planning..When a call for a load comes in to dispatch for any ompany they have to give a REALISTIC delivery date..a truck can't fly 2000 miles in 24 hrs unless something illegal is going on..by doing this..you become easier for a load planner to dispath loads on you because you are doing your best to match up to the formula they use to set delivery times...since you are easier to dispatch for them they are going to dispatch your truck faster...they don't have to sit there and look and figure out how many hours you have falling off or if you are going to have to do a 34 hr restart while on the load etc..they'll come to know you have the hours falling off because you stock t the formula..you're happy because you are always loaded, dispatcher is happy because the truck is always loaded and you aren't yelling at him..wifey is happy because you are consistently getting paid...

    Go ahead and burn your hours up in 6.5 days or less..I've seen guys burn through 70 hrs in five days...they sat for 34 hrs..thats almost 900 miles they lose...

    Petey
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2012
    NEWEST NEWBY Thanks this.
  5. MNdriver

    MNdriver Road Train Member

    7,985
    4,354
    Feb 24, 2012
    0
    I have a spread sheet set up to run these numbers. Takes longer to type it than to run it.

    I have put these scenario's into the spread sheet ad nausem these last two weeks.

    In the grand scheme of these things, it's a pretty decent wash. O/O, lease or company driver. you may not be earning $1.25 / miles as an o/o, but you sure aren't spending the money to run it either.

    Where I see the savings is not paying to be bored for a 34 hour shut down. Paying as in, going in and wasting money on video games, food etc.

    the really benefit for an O/O is you can try to plan your downtime where you WANT to shut down some place like Deadwood or Grand Canyon and go play tourist.

    It's what you really make of it in the end.
     
  6. Noggin

    Noggin Road Train Member

    2,494
    976
    Apr 10, 2011
    Houston, TX
    0
    That's all fine and dandy, except for a couple things. A lot of loads at PAM don't give you the luxury of running 8.75 hours a day. The appointment schedules are often screwed up because of overbooking, not able to get trucks there, yadda yadda. Now, seeing as PAM requires you to log minimum half hour load/unload, and a 15 minute PTI every day, there goes more time out of your driving that you'll have to pick up. And fueling too...another half hour per load seeing as you'll more than likely get 2 fuel stops...
     
  7. Peterbeatinit

    Peterbeatinit Medium Load Member

    340
    119
    Mar 8, 2012
    San Antonio Tx
    0
    So Noggin..lemme get this straight..

    PAM says it takes a half hour to walk into an office sign in, get a door number, walk ou and back a truck in? ...their safety folks haven't ever timed this have they?

    per DOT..it used to be if it takes between 7 and 15 minutes you logged it as 15 no matter what. e log or not..under that time just drop a line and label it.except with e log back then I think the minimum you could set was 15 minutes..

    Is this an automatic thing in the e log? or is something that you do manually they say is the correct way?

    I had a company try to do that with our paper logs..we drivers fought them and went to DOT over it..DOT went to the company and stated they were only allowed to verify HOS violations and unless they could otherwise prove that a task took longer than 15 minutes that they could not force a driver to log it as longer and I hate to say it but if the e log is registering that the truck isn't in motion then either I'm in of duty or on duty not driving and if I'm in the sleeper or not on the truck goofin off then its going to be off duty..and I will fight em on it through DOT

    Petey
     
  8. dancnoone

    dancnoone "Village Idiot"

    9,922
    3,707
    May 6, 2007
    Mississippi
    0
    Wow ! I just run the numbers through the calculator.

    And realized it could be done. If I never had to load or unload my wagon more than once a week.

    Like that's gonna happen.
     
  9. Peterbeatinit

    Peterbeatinit Medium Load Member

    340
    119
    Mar 8, 2012
    San Antonio Tx
    0
    If you have to load or unload more its still possible..

    If you are on duty for 9.5 hrs one day..just drive 8 the next if you can..adjust out and even out..some days you will drive less because you get to a shipper or reciever and wait and wait and wait and you then have to take a ten hour because you are up against your 14 for the day..those extras are "banked" and you can use them to cover those long days when you need to..It all boils down to timing..how you time your on duty/drive vs pick ups and offloads..plan the load out by distance as well as drive time and figure out what the timing will be for that load

    Petey
     
    DocFrank Thanks this.
  10. MNdriver

    MNdriver Road Train Member

    7,985
    4,354
    Feb 24, 2012
    0
    as was stated earlier...

    not all dispatchers see it that way.

    They know you can drive 11 hours legally...
    They expect you to drive 11 hours...

    If it puts you at a point out of town you need to have a 34 hour reset, they just say you should have managed your time better.

    No need to argue amongst ourselves.

    Both systems work. Over a 365 day year, it's pretty much a wash who made more money.

    If you are pushing, it's likely, you could cost a safety bonus.
    That right there over the course of a year can make up the $900 difference.
     
  11. dancnoone

    dancnoone "Village Idiot"

    9,922
    3,707
    May 6, 2007
    Mississippi
    0
    I only work 240 days a year. I expect a reset, so I run as hard as allowed by the planners, to maximize miles during my 14 day rotation.

    On average, I get 5600 miles over 14 days. Some weeks are better, some worse.

    My minimum target, is 385 miles a day while out. With a 450 average being the goal, for every day actually worked. It's generally a wash.
     
  • Truckers Report Jobs

    Trucking Jobs in 30 seconds

    Every month 400 people find a job with the help of TruckersReport.

  • Draft saved Draft deleted