Non CDL logbook requirement....??

Discussion in 'Trucking Industry Regulations' started by Accidental Trucker, Apr 22, 2022.

  1. Accidental Trucker

    Accidental Trucker Road Train Member

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    Scenario: customer meets our truck in Portland, OR in the evening, trans loads several pallets to his U26,000 box truck and heads home to Olympia,WA.

    commercial truck over 10K lbs crossing state lines, driver needs logbook, medical, yada, yada, yada. No question there. 150 mile driver, so no ELD, time card app on his phone.

    Next morning, driver heads out for local deliveries.

    Question: Is he exempt from HOS regulations at that point as a local, U26,000 driver, or does interstate freight change that? @Moose1958?
     
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  3. Moose1958

    Moose1958 Road Train Member

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    Why don't you ask @ZVar or @brian991219 ? Right now I am not feeling well and rather not get too deeply involved!
     
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  4. blairandgretchen

    blairandgretchen Road Train Member

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    You doing Ok? What's up with your old Arse?
     
  5. Accidental Trucker

    Accidental Trucker Road Train Member

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    Hey now! I’m not that old! Actually feeling pretty frisky!

    We internalized distribution from an independent distributor to an in house company to control product quality all the way to the retailer. This came up in a training session, and I just don’t know the answer. And given there’ll be a new entrant audit coming up within the year, we better get it right.
     
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  6. Accidental Trucker

    Accidental Trucker Road Train Member

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    Sorry to hear you’re under the weather. Thanks for letting us know. Sending positive thoughts your way.
     
  7. ZVar

    ZVar Road Train Member

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    I'm, going to assume the morning trip is delivering what he picked up in OR the previous evening.
    He would not be intrastate no. It's the load that matters, not the specific trip. He is still under the same load until it's delivered, either to a warehouse or 100 customers or whatever.

    How does one distinguish between intra- and interstate commerce for the purposes of applicability of the FMCSRs? | FMCSA
    How does one distinguish between intra- and interstate commerce for the purposes of applicability of the FMCSRs?

    Guidance: Interstate commerce is determined by the essential character of the movement, manifested by the shipper’s fixed and persistent intent at the time of shipment, and is ascertained from all of the facts and circumstances surrounding the transportation. When the intent of the transportation being performed is interstate in nature, even when the route is within the boundaries of a single State, the driver and CMV are subject to the FMCSRs.
     
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  8. Accidental Trucker

    Accidental Trucker Road Train Member

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    That’s how I read it, too, but the U26,000 truck made me double check.

    Ok, second scenario. Driver drops at warehouse, product goes into inventory, and is then delivered in multiple trips over the next couple of weeks

    The product originated out of state, but the delivery trips are strictly local.
     
  9. ZVar

    ZVar Road Train Member

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    That would be local, as the load is delivered to the warehouse and that ends the trip. Every shipment from the warehouse would be a new load and thus a new trip and likely even a new BOL
    At least that's how I read the regs. I'm getting ready to go to work so I don't have time to look for specific cites, but I'll try and remember to look in the morning when I get off work.
     
  10. brian991219

    brian991219 Road Train Member

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    You have it correct. If the final delivery is unknown the interstate ends upon warehousing. If known then the intent rule applies.

    For the OP, as for the under 26k, FMCSA defines a commerical vehicle as any vehicle in excess of 10,000 pounds used in furtherance of interstate commerce so as far as the interstate work, yes hours of service would apply even under 26k. To further break that down the driver could switch back to short haul as soon as they have returned to their normal work reporting location and have had 10 hours off to reset.

    On a side note, I advise my clients that switch between inter and intrastate often to just qualify everyone to the interstate standard and there will never be an hours of service problem.

    I'm sorry for no links as it has been a long day at a trade show in Orlando and I'm exhausted.
     
  11. Moose1958

    Moose1958 Road Train Member

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    I'm awake and enjoying a cup of hot (decaf) Coffee( yuck)! State lines really don't define HOS rules. This is a common mistake. The thing is you can't just use a logbook on Monday and leave it in the office on Tuesday. For example. If a driver leaves Atlanta on Sunday and picks up a load in Charlotte and returns that driver MUST be using a logbook (ELD)! Then say the same driver makes local deliveries Monday but goes back to Charlotte on Tuesday. If they get stopped by DOT they had better have Monday in that logbook EVEN if it is only offduty that day still has to be accounted for with a logbook or ELD.

    If I am operating a business that does both long and short-haul I am either forcing ALL my drivers to use a logbook (ELD) or separating the long haul from the short-haul. This is a way to get some serious sanctions from the FMCSA!
     
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