Trucker in Road Rage Incident

Discussion in 'Trucking Accidents' started by Puppage, Jun 27, 2015.

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  1. Tonitos

    Tonitos Light Load Member

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    And a simple "Only in a legal self-defense situation." would've did just fine.
     
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  3. nofreetime

    nofreetime Road Train Member

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    Isn't that just what I said below or is it too hard for you "to connect the dots" on that? Now will you quit nit picking me and go back to the childish conversation you were in about the the favorites guns of Rambo, the Navy S.EA.L.'s or of 007 and attempting to impress everyone with your "firearms knowledge".
     
  4. Tonitos

    Tonitos Light Load Member

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    You know it's actually legal to open carry assault rifles in some states, right? But there's a clause in some states that will allow them to arrest you if the force used to stop your attacker is greater than the actual threat. Like for example:
    Speaking of which...Rambo? Impress? Says the guy who needlessly posts a pic of an assault rifle.

    Also you being the person who keeps an assault rifle because "everyone has" handguns makes me understand why you were the first to respond to my bigger guns = bigger coward. Did I touch a nerve?

    Lastly, I'm entitled to my opinion like everyone else here. I just happen to have more experts agreeing with my opinion on the subject/personal preference. So accept it and enjoy the rest of your holiday weekend.
     
  5. nofreetime

    nofreetime Road Train Member

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    First of all if you really are a gun owner and youre not just claiming to be one then don't ever call that an assault rifle. That is a semi auto sporting rifle, assault rifles are fully auto. Dont miss label a sporting rifle an assault rifle even if its to prove a point. Second, I am aware of the laws in my state and by legal definition pertaining to lawful defensive use of a firearm any firearm regardless of type quantifies the same level of force. Third I never claimed to be rambo and I do not have what I have to act as rambo in some fantasy world. This reminds me of some recent news events, like the guy in my hometown that was shot in the head in a homedepot parking lot by a road rager, died on the helicopter in transit to the hospital, left behind a wife and two kids. Or the cereal killer still at large whose shot several drivers on I25 killing a couple, from his vehicle. I could go on. These are real events, real peoples lives, and they had real families, its real human life and its not some fantasy world. So if you're trying to portray me as some rambo wannabe that's not true. Road rage is a huge problem and statistically it has historically gotten worse I believe it will continue to get worse. So when I see post on TTR about a violent road rage attack on another you bet I'm gonna post a pick of my rifle. I want those who would intently follow another vehicle then arm themselves with a weapon of any type and approach that vehicle with the intent of doing bodily harm or taking a life over a minor traffic altercation to know that there are people like me out there. I want them to feel like they don't know who they are about to attack or whose watching because if I witnessed a violent attack on another I would get involved. Its not a game or fantasy to me at all. I take my respect for human life very seriously and I have what I have to protect it from those that don't.



    No you didn't touch a nerve though its clear that that's what you were looking to do ever since someone else called your caliber of choice too small and a girls caliber you've talking down to others and seeking an argument.
    More "experts"? Agreeing with you're opinion about what? I never insulted your caliber so not part of this debate, even though its clear that you want it to be. Now will you stop nit picking me and go back to your super cool "internet tacticool expert" conversation about the favorite guns of rambo and the navy seals.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2015
  6. Rockin&Rollin

    Rockin&Rollin Heavy Load Member

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    Yes we can legally shoot in a case like this even if they are retreating ... from the story ...

    "Officials say the tractor-trailer driver then got out of his truck and ran up to the driver’s side of the car while it was stopped at the traffic light at the end of the exit ramp. The truck driver allegedly struck the driver of the car with an unknown object, causing a cut to the car driver’s face, according to a press release from state police.

    As the truck driver tried to return to his truck, the driver of the car got out and chased after the truck driver. While pursuing the truck driver, the car driver withdrew a 9-millimeter semi-automatic pistol (for which he had a valid pistol permit), and fired several rounds."

    ... Since the truck driver viciously attacked the car driver all the car driver needed to do is say he was afraid and trying to "prevent death or great bodily harm" knowing the assailant could turn around and attack him again, get a weapon from his truck, run him over with his truck, whatever.

    The Florida law is a self-defense, self-protection law. It has four key components:

    • It establishes that law-abiding residents and visitors may legally presume the threat of bodily harm or death from anyone who breaks into a residence or occupied vehicle and may use defensive force, including deadly force, against the intruder.
    • In any other place where a person “has a right to be,” that person has “no duty to retreat” if attacked and may “meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.”
    • In either case, a person using any force permitted by the law is immune from criminal prosecution or civil action and cannot be arrested unless a law enforcement agency determines there is probable cause that the force used was unlawful.
    • If a civil action is brought and the court finds the defendant to be immune based on the parameters of the law, the defendant will be awarded all costs of defense.
     
  7. nofreetime

    nofreetime Road Train Member

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    The story makes it sound like he chased the guy down and shot him in possibly the back while retreating. Personally I couldn't bring myself to do that. If you say that's legal then well you know your states laws better than I do. He could still have a prosecutor decide to press charges anyway. I'm sure it wouldn't be the first time a state prosecutor tried for a conviction they shouldn't get, if that is in fact the law there. He'll still have to convince the prosecutor that it was possible that the trucker was going to come back and attack him and if cant then the prosecutor may decide that they can convince a jury otherwise. Either way I wouldn't want to he in his shoes right now that's a little too close to the fire for me. Are you aware of any case history on any similar events in Florida? Of corse the Zimmerman case was well known but this isn't exactly the same since as I recall Trevon was on top of Zimmerman when he shot, right.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2015
  8. Pedigreed Bulldog

    Pedigreed Bulldog Road Train Member

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    "If attacked" you have the right to stand your ground with no duty to retreat. However, once the attack has ceased and the attacker is in retreat, YOU DO NOT have the right to pursue, go on the offensive, and try to kill your attacker. The Florida law allows you to defend your lawful position with whatever force is necessary. Once the attacker retreats, you should call the police, and if you fear the attacker will return, either leave or take up a defensive position somewhere nearby (i.e. find cover) and wait for the police to arrive. The Florida law does NOT allow for vigilante justice...only self defense. Once you go on offense, YOU are the attacker, and criminal charges CAN AND WILL BE pursued against you.
     
  9. Rockin&Rollin

    Rockin&Rollin Heavy Load Member

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    Uh ... no ... the truck driver viciously attacked the car driver and all the car driver needs to do is say he was in fear of great bodily harm or death whether the truck driver was retreating of not ... the burden isn't on the car driver to play Miss Cleo and figure out if he was gonna get attacked a second time or not, our law says if you attack somebody they can shoot you and it doesn't specify anything else.
     
  10. Rockin&Rollin

    Rockin&Rollin Heavy Load Member

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    The Zimmerman case wasn't prosecuted under the Stand Your Ground Law so it doesn't apply to anything here (Zimmerman was railroaded in a witch-hunt imo but that's another story).


    Man Retreating From Fight Shot In Back Of Head, 2007
    Michael Palmer and Timothy McTigue got into a fight in Rivera Beach, during which McTigue claimed Palmer tried to drown him. McTigue then fatally shot Palmer in the back of the head while Palmer was climbing out of the water.

    McTigue was acquitted.

    Man Kills Robber Who Stole Car Radios, Then Sells Radios, 2012
    Greyston Garcia saw Pedro Roteta stealing a stereo from his truck in Miami. He pursued Roteta, who swung a bag of car stereos at Garcia, according to surveillance video. Garcia chased, then fatally stabbed Roteta, went home, hid the knife, and sold two of the stolen stereos.

    A Miami-Dade judge cited the Stand Your Ground law in dismissing the case against Garcia.

    Man Kills Lover Having Sex With Wife, 2012
    In Brandon, 70-year-old Ralph Wald walked in on former neighbor Walter Conley having sex with Wald's wife. After fatally shooting Conley, Wald claimed that although Conley had lived nearby, he did not recognize him and thought a stranger was raping his wife.

    Wald was acquitted after a two-hour deliberation.

    His defense team invoked Stand Your Ground, according to the Tampa Bay Times, and noted that "Wald had 'no duty to retreat' when facing perceived danger within his own home."

    Trash Bags, 2006
    Kenneth Allen was upset that Clearwater neighbor Jason Rosenbloom had placed eight rather than the allowed six trash bags on their curb. The two men got into a verbal dispute. As Rosenbloom approached, Allen shot him once in the stomach and once in the chest, claiming Rosenbloom had tried to enter his home.

    Allen was not charged, police believing his self-defense claims. "Had it been a year and a half ago, he could have been arrested for attempted murder,” Rosenbloom said of how the then-new Stand Your Ground law affected the case.

    Rival Drug Dealer Killed, 2009
    Jackson Fleurimon shot and killed Lucus Termitus, claiming that Termitus had shown up at his Orlando apartment brandishing a gun. Fleurimon's girlfriend told police that Fleurimon shot Termitus because he told him not to "sell dope on my side of the complex."

    Fleurimon was granted immunity under Stand Your Ground.

    Newspaper Delivery Man Kills Stranger, 2008
    Tony Hayward was delivering newspapers in West Palm Beach when, he said, Jyron Miles approached him. Hayward claimed he thought Miles was reaching for a gun so he shot him.

    Hayward was acquitted.

    Man Claims He Had to Shoot Because Of Arthritis, 2008
    In Hudson, Anthony Boglino, 64, was in an argument with Haigh Frank Kopain, 36, when he said he felt threatened. He claimed his arthritis prevented him from otherwise defending himself, so he shot his pistol, wounding Kopain.

    Boglino was acquitted under the Stand Your Ground law.

    Neighbor Kills Man In Front Of His Children In Dog Dispute, 2009
    A neighborhood dispute over dogs in Homosassa turned deadly when Oscar Delbono shot Shane Huse as Huse's two young children watched from his truck. Witnesses say that Huse had turned to walk away when Delbono fire his gun.

    Delbono was not charged with a crime.

    Man Kills Door-to-Door Adventist, 2009
    Tampa neighbors said that Carlos Ibanez, a Seventh Day Adventist, had been acting out, pounding on car windows and apartment doors when Marcos A. Trujillo shot and killed him.

    Trujillo was not charged.

    Teen Kills Deaf Wave Runner Robber, 2011
    A Miami mother told her 14-year-old son, Jack Davis, to "get the gun" when they spotted a man trying to steal their waverunner from the dock, according to 911 calls. Davis shot and killed Reynaldo Munoz, who the family claimed had threatened them. A former teacher of Munoz said that was impossible because Monuz was deaf and could not speak clearly.

    Davis was not charged.

    Marijuana Deal Turns Deadly, 2009
    Anthony Gonzalez Jr. fatally shot Sujaye Henry in a Miami marijuana deal dispute that led to a car chase and shootout.

    Gonzalez pleaded guilty to manslaughter and was sentenced to three years in prison.

    "The limitations imposed on us by the 'stand your ground' law made it impossible for any prosecutor to pursue murder charges," said a spokesman for the Miami-Dade prosecutor's office.

    Gang Shootout Kills Teen, 2008
    A gang shootout in Tallahassee left 15-year-old Michael Jackson dead. Two rival gang members were granted immunity under Stand Your Ground.

    "A spokeswoman for Florida's Attorney General says in this case, the court made a decision about whether the defendants had a right to defend themselves regardless of whether they were gang members," according to WCTV.

    Man Fires At Utility Workers Collecting Unpaid Bills, 2009
    Miami's Ernesto Che Vino fired at two Florida Power & Light workers who had entered his yard to cut power due to unpaid bills.

    A judge tossed out two counts of armed assault and one count of improper exhibition of a firearm, saying that under Stand Your Ground, Vino had a reasonable fear for his life.

    Deadly Road Rage, 2012
    Seth Browning, a 23-year-old security guard in Palm Harbor, was concerned about Brandon Baker's driving and followed him to get his tag number. Baker pulled over and confronted Browning, who police say sprayed Baker with pepper spray.

    Browning said Baker then reached in and punched him, prompting Browning to pull out his company-issued gun and fatally shoot Baker.

    Browning was not charged.

    "The bottom line is, this was justifiable use of deadly force," Assistant State Attorney Bill Loughery told Palm Harbor Patch.

    Bar Fight Shooting Spree Leaves One Injured, 2010
    Tyrone Anthony Jackson was in an altercation with Etti Miezan at a Tampa birthday party. Jackson reportedly went to his car to get his gun and came back to start randomly shooting into the street. Miezan was injured while trying to evade his shots.

    Jackson was acquitted on the grounds of self-defense.
     
  11. Pedigreed Bulldog

    Pedigreed Bulldog Road Train Member

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    Keep believing that, and see how it works out for you. "Stand your ground" does NOT mean "advance your position". Lethal force is allowed to STOP a threat, not prolong the engagement by pursuing a fleeing attacker. Once you initiate pursuit, the "stand your ground" laws no longer apply to your situation, because you have become the aggressor.
     
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