Two axle Jeep with short neck RGN- will it be practical?

Discussion in 'Heavy Haul Trucking Forum' started by ETMF 58 White, Mar 22, 2021.

  1. ETMF 58 White

    ETMF 58 White Light Load Member

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    I’ve posted in this forum before about wanting a single axle jeep for my tandem tractor. But several of you have said that it probably wouldn’t do exactly what I was looking to do. So, I’m wondering if a two axle jeep would be any better. What I’m up against is that on 6 axles I just can’t scale these 350 class excavators for my construction company unless I remove the buckets. And, I can’t haul a Cat D8 when we rent one of those occasionally. My state will permit 46k on my tandems, but I just can’t position those excavators to get less than 48k on the drives, plus I’m about 122k total anyway, which is almost 3k overweight. My truck has 46K rear suspension and 13.2K front axle, but I don’t want to add a pusher because of the weight penalty when pulling a dump trailer.

    Anyway, I’ve found this nice late model two axle 26 ft jeep, but to make it work with my 95 inch swing RGN, I would have to move the jeep fifth wheel back on the frame so that the RGN kingpin would ride almost directly on top of the forward jeep axle. So my question is, does this do anything to help me? I suppose that I could permit 13.2k+46k+46k+60k with this setup, but I don’t imagine that the truck drives or steer axle could ever get anywhere close to maximum weights with the RGN kingpin so far back on the jeep.

    Although the setup might possibly work for the excavator and maybe even the D8 in this state, what about in my neighboring state that will only permit 40k on either of the 2+2? In other words, I don’t want to spend all this money on a jeep and still not be able to haul the excavator in that state because enough weight on the drives to reduce the jeep to 40k max.

    Also, another downside is would I have to get a permit for over length even when I’m empty, unless I stack the jeep which would be a PITA for moving a couple of excavators and a dozer 50 miles to a different job site? Any thoughts on this whole brainstorm? Or is it just a brain fart?
     

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  3. shooter19802003

    shooter19802003 Medium Load Member

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    What about putting a 20k steer up front and skipping the jeep? Cheaper cost without a huge weight penalty. Just a crap ride.
     
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  4. Rontonio

    Rontonio Road Train Member

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    it will not work....long story short
     
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  5. cke

    cke Road Train Member

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    If you move the fifth wheel back like you want, you’ll have virtually no weight transfer to the truck. Is it not possible to get a flip neck for your trailer ??
     
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  6. AModelCat

    AModelCat Road Train Member

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    Just out of curiousity why would a single axle jeep not work?
     
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  7. ETMF 58 White

    ETMF 58 White Light Load Member

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    This is a Kaufman trailer, a lower price point trailer that is perfectly adequate for my needs if I had a triaxle truck. They do not offer a flip neck. The fact of the matter is that I’m trying to use my 565 hp 18 speed 3.90 truck for more than just a lowboy truck, such as pulling a dump trailer and a flatbed, since I don’t really need it to be a lowboy truck more than a few days a month and it’s got expensive license and insurance. It’s like everything else in business, though, and that is a person needs the right tools for the job. I probably should just add a pusher axle and take the weight penalty but then I couldn’t haul 48000 lb flatbed loads in the off-season.
     
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  8. beastr123

    beastr123 Road Train Member

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    You may try loading forward facing and put the counterweight further back. It may involve a height permit as you may not be able to get the boom as low as you can with it in the boom trough.
    I spent some time moving JD 350s and less across town on off days and I found that scaling the 350s was possible in this way but the boom was at 14' high. I was lucky that I could get an annual permit to cover these loads.
     
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  9. old iron

    old iron Road Train Member

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    I use a single axle jeep for much the same reasons as you are mentioning. It's a pain in the ### but it works. IMG_20191126_140001059_HDR.jpg
    An old antique close coupled tandem jeep might somewhat split the weight with your short neck trailer. But then you loose the ability to jump it on the tractor frame or chain it to the neck to get out of job sites like a single axle can.
    If you can get away loading a hoe backwards it's a whole lot easier not messing with a jeep doing short job site moves! IMG_20200819_122020238_HDR.jpg
     
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  10. Rontonio

    Rontonio Road Train Member

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    Ok

    here is the basics of the long story - I. Order to move weight forward from one axle group to another you must move the kp of the “big” trailer past the halfway point from the center of the Jeep axle group to Jeep kingpin.

    this is the same concept as moving the CG of the load forward or backward in the well to load either the kp or the trailer axles.

    if you do not get to at least the center point (Jeep kp to Jeep axle group center) you will actually take weight off of the drive axles.

    my guess is you have experienced this on a tractor by moving the fifth wheel behind center of the drive axles ...if not give it try (go to far and you will not be able to steer well)

    so, in order to get to that point on a Jeep you need a very long neck on the “big” trailer. If you look at where and how long the slider on a Jeep is - short slide and very far forward - this is why.

    generally you will need at least 16-18’ of neck on the big trailer. So a typical 55 ton has 11-12’ and even with a flip neck you might get 14’. You won’t even be able to hook that neck with a short neck trailer.

    If you have a long flip neck on a 55 ton - you might be able to run a 2 axle jo dog. This setup is not legal in every jurisdiction as most state will consider it close coupled. It may work where you are I don’t know.

    all this being said - surgeons don’t use chainsaws and lumberjacks don’t use scalpels.

    I do heavy haul and have the equipment to do that job - I can’t haul lumber or dry vans or tankers. My tractor weigh 30k bobtail but it is spec’d to run 260k gross.

    Jeeps are expensive and we haven’t even talked about length and pilot cars. They also make it difficult to get into tight spaces without hassle.

    hope this helps clarify my short post from earlier
     
  11. ETMF 58 White

    ETMF 58 White Light Load Member

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    How long is the swing clearance on your trailer? Your single axle jeep looks like it might work for me if the scale house guys or, more worrisome, the portable DOT guys, consider that a triaxle group and let me permit it up to 60K. Because several on here have said that the single axle jeep will over-axle pretty quickly if you have to weigh it alone. (Some states have a rule about each axle in a tri group must be certain percentage of the total, but the heavy guys I’ve talked to here say our DOT is okay with whatever as long as the group is not overweight.)

    I think Rontonio is right, a long jeep with a short neck RGN is a bad idea and does nothing except make it hard to get into the job sites. And that’s one reason I have a daycab instead of a long large car, is so I can get into some of these sites with a lowboy and a dump trailer.

    If I want to keep a shorter truck with no pusher axle for these reasons, then I suppose I need to hire the excavator moved if I need to go over to the adjoining 40,000 lb. tandem limit state. And keep paying the Cat dealer to deliver and retrieve the rental D8.
     
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