Vehicle combination weights & keeping it under the Non CDL weight

Discussion in 'Expediter and Hot Shot Trucking Forum' started by The3SomeTrailer, Dec 26, 2018.

  1. weirdpuckett

    weirdpuckett Road Train Member

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    Pretty simple folks.........focus on the idea of "combination vehicle" .......and non- " combination vehicle"........count number of axles.......even though it would "appear" that law enforcement are seemingly ONLY focused on your trailer, they are not......they see a combination vehicle........rated for a specific , FOR-HIRE weight.......period.....when you dry van , flatbed, tanker drivers get pulled over while empty, do you somehow become exempt from being a combination vehicle? No.....
     
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  3. weirdpuckett

    weirdpuckett Road Train Member

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    If you have a 2 axle vehicle but are carrying a certain amount of passengers ......you must have a CDL "c" class.......just read the specifics in the FMCSR.......that will tell you whether you should get the proper licensing for the set up you rig up....
     
  4. 24kHotshot

    24kHotshot Medium Load Member

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    I did a lot of research and i think I can answer this question for you as I have also looked at this setup.
    Your truck gcvw is 26,000 minus the truck and trailer curb weight your payload is 12,880 lbs. One thing you need to keep in mind is that 15-20% of the weight is being transferred to the truck via the hitch.
    So payload + trailer curb weight is 18,000 lb. 2,800 - 3,600 gooseneck hitch weight.
    Can your truck handle a 3,500 lb payload over the rear axle?
    What ever is left is (18000-3500= 14,500) carried by the trailer axles.The take 3 ultra lite has 2 7k dexter axles. You will be a couple hundred lbs over weight on each assuming split evenly.

    I have no experience, never been in a dot weigh station and all I just wrote is from reading and math. Feel free to correct me if I am wrong about something.
    After writing this I realized your truck is rated for 11,400 and not 12,000. Either adjust the math or you can ask Take 3 to rate your trailer to 14,600 lbs, if they can't just find a 15k trailer and they can derate it to what you need.
     
  5. Land

    Land Bobtail Member

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    He was driving a 23,500# truck with a 14k trailer that had an actual weight of 11k (5k empty weight and 6k tractor). Whether 37,500 registered weight, or 34,500 actual weight, he was well over 26,001, inclusive of a 10k+ trailer. CDL A all day long.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2020
  6. ZVar

    ZVar Road Train Member

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    Read everything before resurrecting a year old thread....
    The Combined rating was 23,500.and that's what my post was going off of. I've posted all the proof in this thread already so I'm not going to go back and repost for people that can't read.

    If the combined rating was a lie, well that's outside the scope of the post. I can only give information based on what I'm told.
     
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  7. Theokranz

    Theokranz Bobtail Member

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    I have a question to add to this, let's say my trucks gvwr is 14k, my trailer is derated to 12k so I'm at 26k, let's say my fully loaded truck weighs 11k, can I put 8k lbs on my trailer legally if the trailer weighs 7k? That would keep my total weight at or under 26k although my trailer would technically be over the derated weight.
     
  8. Bdog

    Bdog Road Train Member

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    You would be overweight on your trailer. You might be able to get away with it if you have combination plates where your registered weight is all tied to the truck. In most states if you have regular plates you pay for and have a registered weight for your truck and a separate registered weight for your trailer. The DOT will weigh each independently and if you are over on either out comes their ticket book. It has been quite a few years ago but I once received a ticket like this where I had a truck registered for 10k and a trailer for 14k. My gross combined actual weight was 22k. They ran me across the scales and I had about 11k on the truck and 11k on the trailer. I got a ticket for being overweight on the truck.

    With a 14k GVWR you must have a dually. Get a CDL and a more appropriate sized trailer for it or if you want to pull a smaller trailer ditch the dually and get a 3/4 ton.
     
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  9. Slay

    Slay Light Load Member

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    The GCVWR of 11,400 on the truck plus 14,600 pounds on the trailer equals 26,000 pounds. No CDL required. Weight of my truck and trailer is nearly 15,000 total. This gives me a payload of 11,000 pounds. Now you must look at the weight distribution. How much does the front truck axle support? How much does the rear truck axle support? How much does the trailer axles combined support? Look on the stickers of the truck and trailer. Now look at the weight ratings of the tires on each axle. The lesser of the tire ratings or the axle ratings will determine how much weight can be on the axles. You must look at total weight of the loaded truck and trailer along with the weight of each axle of the truck or the weight on the combined axles of the trailer. My truck GVWR= 11,400 pounds, front axle 4800 pounds, rear axle 8200 pounds and the trailer axles 14,500 pounds. However you can not add 4800+8200+14,500 = 27,500 pounds since the GCVWR on the truck and trailer equals 25,900 pounds that is all I can carry.

    My GCVWR 25,900 minus the truck and trailer weight of 14,820 pounds gives me a pay load of 11,080 if everything is spread out on the trailer correctly. In practice I stop at 10,000 pounds.

    I do not run with a CDL and after being stopped several times by the DOT I have never been question about having a CDL except by one DOT cop. When I pointed to the weight stickers of the truck and the trailer, which, showed that I was under 26,000 pounds he spent over 40 minutes trying to violate me. He gave me an OOS for hooking the brakeaway cable to the safety chain hook instead of the D ring itself. I corrected the problem in front of him and he acknowledged that the problem was corrected. Then the SOB wrote up the OOS ticket anyway.
     
  10. Ichabod

    Ichabod Bobtail Member

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    Hi everyone,
    I've read through the thread here and everywhere else on the internet. I have a question, and please excuse my ignorance beforehand.
    I have some property in 2 states, hunting land, and I am looking to purchase a backhoe that I'd need to move from one to the other on occasion. All personal/private, not hotshotting or any of that or leased land to someone else, all mine. I was looking at new 3500 SRW trucks to have the payload, and was looking at 10k backhoes until I ran into all of this class A nightmare. Class A is out for me, I have medical issues that I couldn't pass. So, my questions:

    1. The new GM 1 ton SRW trucks have a GVWR of 12,100 but the door sticker lists their GCWR at like 29k (for the Duramax). Even the 3/4 ton GCWR on the door sticker for the Duramax is 27,500. So, am I reading the rules correctly that the GCWR the DOT is concerned about is the one on the STICKER, and NOT the GVWR of truck + GVWR of trailer? IE, even a 3/4 diesel (GVWR 11,500) + 14k trailer < 26k, however since the door stick says 27.5k you're in class A territory?

    2. Assuming the GCWR on the door sticker is what they want, if you get the gasser the GCWR drops to 24k. Would it be possible to cross state lines with no class A with a gasser and a 14k trailer(assuming I'm not overweight with the backhoe on it)? Seems like yes from Slay's example above and the flow charts. Still might get harassed but seems legal?

    3. Sounds like really the least-hassle legal option is to get the lightest 10k trailer I can get to max payload, and get a smaller excavator instead of a backhoe. Also legal-wise the gasser would at least have the GCWR door sticker < 26k, so there's no confusion there.

    Really would rather have the dirtymax though. Just something about that clatter. Anyhow, apologies for not letting the dead rest in piece, but this really is a murky area for those of us who just want to be legal, private, and don't want to have Johnny Law beating us on the side of the road with his ticket book.
     
  11. Accidental Trucker

    Accidental Trucker Road Train Member

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    How far apart are these two properties? If they are less than 150 miles apart, and the states have reciprocity, the easiest work around would be to run as agriculture exempt. In many rural states, no CDL is required, and many states offer reciprocity, meaning they accept your home state exemption. Some states prefer a farm tag on the truck. Worth checking out. My 16 year old son used to drive our 88K gross semi between the farms, easy, peasy.
     
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