What the Prime recruiter told me today.

Dunno about the actual CDL test, but when I started at CRE 11 years ago, you had two chances to pass their pre employment road test / obstacle course,
and if you didn't make after the second try, you were disqualified.

 

Like most training carriers, CRE does not limit you to, nor guarantee that you will get, two tries. It's case-by-case. If you suck, and you aren't improving, you're out. If you suck, but you are trying, and showing some improvement, it's a judgement call that will likely be made by your instructors. If they like you, you'll probably get more leeway than if they don't. Attitude (and sometimes butt-kissing) count for a lot, in this grey space. I watched one fellow take his CDL test nine times, while I was in orientation at CRE. I don't know if he ever passed, but he sure tried like holy heck. I'm not sure I'd want to team with him, but you had to give him credit for caring.

Most carriers handle this similarly. Booting someone out because of a hard number is bad policy, especially when a lot of the test relies upon how strict or laid back your examiner turns out to be, or what kinds of things they feel are important, and therefore focus on. Getting the boot usually has more to do with how well you are handling training, overall, and whether you are fitting in well. If you just can't drive a truck... well... I've seen them hire ladies in this situation to drive the shuttle, carrying students between the hotel and school. I thought that ill-advised, but I don't know the whole story, and they didn't ask my opinion...

Try not to focus on how much failure you are allowed. Just do your best. You can't do any better than that, anyway.

 

If you fail the CDL knowledge test 6 times within a 12-month period, you will not be allowed to take the 7th test until 12 months after you fail the 1st test... also, for the skills test, if you fail you have to wait at least 7 days before you can test again.. and you only get 3 tries.. if you fail the 3rd time you will have to wait and start all over again..
most companies do not want to have to keep wasting time and money on a driver that just isn't getting it.. if they are struggling that hard to just learn the basics, then there is a lot of reason for concern and how they will actually develope into a safe driver.. let alone be successful.

The bonus, is incentive to want to do your best and pass the first time.. and it is also a little reward for doing so..

Which, is really kind of funny.. the clean inspection bonus also cracks me up... getting bonuses for doing your job the way your are supposed to... the guy making your burger doesn't get a bonus when he makes your burger right.. carpenters don't get bonuses when they don't bend the nail..
If you want to be a truck driver you need a CDL.. why should you get a bonus just for getting it the first time.. so, this shouldn't be the deal breaker for you...

Before CDL schools.. and if you wanted to get your license you had to find someone to teach you and let you use the truck for the test.. and sure maybe there was a pat on the back and maybe a high five.. but, it would be funny to see the truck drivers response when you asked where your bonus for passing is...

Alright.. just a rant about the silliness of the trucking industry these days...

 

If you don't wreck my truck, I won't beat your arse...?

In fairness, a lot of the industry bonuses are for things that drivers have little influence over. The fuel bonus is almost always unreachable, unless they give you a shiny new truck and have you hauling popped popcorn, or Styrofoam. Safety bonuses are back-to-back against on-time performance and production bonuses; if they schedule you to have a shot at one, chances are that your logbook won't allow you to get the other.

It's true, you shouldn't need bonuses to pass your test, conserve fuel, or move freight on time and safely, but the company target is almost always higher than what can reasonably be achieved - so they apply the carrot and the stick, as though this had some power to change reality.

Transportation carriers of all kinds have been doing this ever since mules and horses were domesticated, and it has always been far less effective from the standpoint of the animal doing the hauling, than the guy holding the carrot and the stick thinks that it should be...

The carrier probably has trouble getting people through the test, and instead of looking for a deficiency in the training material or process, they are waving a carrot at the recruits. If you get it, you get it. Don't worry about it if you don't. They don't know why people don't pass the first time, so you can hardly expect to be able to identify, much less compensate for whatever the training deficiency is.

 

I get all that.. however, there are a lot of resources.. you can go to the DMV and get the CDL booklet.. there are tons of resources online... including here on TTR, they have those practice test you can utilize.. so, there is no reason that a recruit should fail the knowledge test.. they should do their part, study and take the practice test till they wiz through them....
but the reality is.. some show up and havent even looked at the booklet or taken the practice test.. especially at the schools or companies where you don't need a permit first, they will talk you through it and drive you to the DMV to get one..

 

I got the impression that he was talking about the drive test, not the knowledge test... and "DMV" is state-specific. I know California has a DMV; in Pennsylvania they refer to it as the state Department of Transportation. Some schools have been granted authority by some states, to perform the testing in-house, and that has a drastic impact on quality standards, and sometimes also on the material that is covered. You point out some good resources, one and all, but not necessarily sufficient to pass at his carrier. Frankly, some carriers teach classroom and written material that doesn't even offer the correct answers to their own tests.

He can only do his best. If he does his best, and still does not pass on the first try, no need to shame him. His carrier clearly has problems getting people through, or they would not feel the need to offer the incentive. And if he's not the first to have this problem, then there is a good chance that there is a problem with the training program... or perhaps they aren't selective enough about their recruiting. Either way, it's above his pay grade. All he can do is his best.

 

They don't use Crowder in neosho anymore?

 

I don't know about other carriers, but I do know at Prime the bonuses are very much achievable and the driver has more influence over getting them than you think. The fuel bonus at Prime is paid weekly and is one of the big focuses of the company (I refer you to all "Prime drives to slow" threads on this forum). If you get better than 8mpg, which is very achievable in how the trucks are spec'd, you'll get the fuel bonus. Right now the Fleet average company wide is well above 9mpg. Safety is paid out every week you are safe and it's not linked to on time performance, that's a completely separate bonus that's paid out weekly. On time bonus is simple, be on time for your pickups and deliveries and if you're late because of something out of your control like Tyson taking 6 hours past the appt window to load, that doesn't count against you. Theven 3 bonuses the driver has a lot of control over every week.

Actually Prime doesn't have issues with getting students to pass on the first try. They offer an incentive to both the student and the trainer to pass on the first try, we call it getting a trifecta. The idea is the trainer doesn't send you out to test until you both think you're ready. Prime's training program is very good but also very long compared to the other programs out there.

I'm sure that is the case at other companies, Prime doesn't belive in setting targets at that can't be reached by everyone. The fuel bonus is there way of paying you for saving the company money, which in turn means you get paid more and allows for the regular cpm increases Prime does. The owner of Prime believes in you the driver having some skin in the game and a way to control how much you make.

I agree! The recruits are told to study before they get to orientation, they are offered ample time and resources during orientation to study before they go test. It's up to the recruit to decide if they will take part in those resources or pretend it's a paid vacation and they can skate through it.

The driving test is correct. If you fail the driving portion 3 times, you're out. Missouri won't allow you to get a cdl or take the test in Missouri ever again. Now you can fall the backing test and pretrip test many times and prime will work with you if there is shown improvement between each attempt.

Yes Prime has been granted the authority to administer the 3 tests, pretrip, backing and driving, but the state Isiah usually had 2 to 4 officials watching and or administoring the tests all day long so it's hard to cut corners and have subpar standards when you're under the microscope all the time. I agree, there are other schools out there that don't have that kind of over sight for testing and just push the students through. Usually the only oversight those programs have is the state will select 10% at random to retest and see how they do.

The training team is constantly updating and making sure what is taught is actually correct. When I went through crst, there packet for hazmat certification wasn't correct so the answers didn't match the material, instead the instructor just told everyone the answers to all the questions and then had us turn the test back in. Now there was a subpar program!

Again, prime doesn't have issues getting drivers through on the first try because it's up to the trainer and the driver to decide when they are ready to test. It doesn't benefit the trainer at all to just rush students through, that's why thy Trainer is given an incentive for there student to pass the first time.

I will agree that I have noticed a drop in quality of recruits, but I was told that was being addressed this year. Something to do with an over zealous head of recruiting.

I hope that helps clear up about Prime and there program. I know there are programs out there like you described, I was unlucky enough to go through crst and that was definitely a subpar program. I wish I had known about Prime when I started driving, all I got in searches was crst, swift, Pam, and Schneider. None of those has anything close to Prime's level of training.

 

RedOctober83... wow that was a very good and informative post.. thanks for taking the time to share all that...

I am not against bonuses, incentives and rewards .. they are are a very useful way for employers to try and get the best from their employees...

When I was with Werner I was able to get their fuel bonuses often.. and some others..

From a recruiting stand point it can be frustrating.. because they pay, bonus and incentives are all so intertwined...

 

^^^ what he said. Very informative, and addresses all of the points raised in the thread. You should work in Prime's Public Relations or Recruiting departments, @redoctober83 !