Negotiating a used truck

Hello everyone, I have had a CDL for 5 years but I work for the government so I am not a real commercial driver. I am looking to buy a used Class-8 to pull an RV. I am looking at probably a 2006/2007 Volvo with a Cummins ISX with an ultrashift trans (my wife will feel comfortable and she needs to pull her weight driving too!) I have looked high and low on negotiating on a class 8 tractor but have come up snake eyes. I am looking at 700,000 to 1 mil mile range and have seen them from 16k to 27k. How much or what % off do you think I will be able to negotiate and what are some pro tips I should look for? I have done alot of research and think I am fairly prepared but if you experts can give some pointers I will take them kindly. The main thing is how much I can realistically talk them down. Thank you for taking the time to help me out!

 

Cash is king. Private seller or dealership makes a huge difference. Find out how long it's been for sell. Like if it's been a couple months low ball them and say you wanna take it off their hands. They prob won't bite on the low ball offer but start their and work towards your bottom dollar. Good luck

 

Just a quick note on my own experience: if you can find a Volvo with an iShift, I think you be amazed at the difference between the clunky EF Ultrashift.

Having driven both, I can also say we had far fewer problems with the iShift (none) vs the Ultrashift (entire tranny ended up being replaced when shop after shop could not figure out why it was getting stuck in low range, only when warm) It was a 10 sp Eaton fuller vs a 12 sp iShift but the difference was night and day. My company had about 75 EF autos and 25 Ishifts and those of us in Volvos didn't even have to try to get our fuel bonuses each month while the guys running EF struggled. Ultrashift would go up ad down through each and every gear, even while bobtailing where the Volvo may use 3-4 gears to do the same. Same deal downshifting.

 

Seriously how big&heavy is this RV?

 

1. Didnt know if class 8 dealers are like any other used car salesman or what their normal margins are to negotiate.
2. Thank you for your replies. I would definitely consider an Ishift but there doesn't seem to be many in my price range.
3. The RV is a 43' toy hauler with a max gross of 19,900lbs. I have a 2001 1 ton which I will not sell because I'm giving it to my son for graduation. It is not the truck for this job and I cannot justify having two one tons especially when even a used newer pickup will be 40k to 60k. Why would I pay that when I can get a truck that will pull that trailer like nobody's business, stop it MUCH better compared to a pickup and the miles I put on it in years wont be what is normally put on it in a month....and under 20k? No brainer for me.

Again thanks for the replies, actual numbers of what I can expect to whittle off would be great (then maybe I can afford one with an ishift!)

 

If you can find an Arrow dealer near enough to you, they usually have pretty impressive inventory for Volvos. They deal in a lot of trade ins and lease returns etc from Volvo North America so they also have an extensive network of dealerships to source trucks.

- finding a unit that hasn't been smoked in might be a challenge if that's an issue. You may be able to talk the salesperson down some in price on that point.

- the interior of a 10 year old truck will likely be imperfect, and doesn't typically get much attention on used truck websites. You might be able to point out some of the flaws and knock the price back a bit, since you are using it as a family wagon and not a money maker.

- bear in mind that trucks with a Volvo VED 12 or similar Volvo engine are usually going to end up being serviced by Volvo, at a dealership. Whereas an older Detroit or Cummins can be worked on by most anyone

- pre-2002 and you can skip a lot of headaches with EGR and emissions that came into effect that year. Pre-EGR trucks are the simplest to work on and tend to get the same or better fuel mileage as newer trucks. I have no clue how the California emissions laws do/don't apply to recreational diesels, if you're going to California, probably best to find out before you buy a non-compliant vehicle

- the Volvo comes in a couple of configurations, day cab, flat top with a small sleeper, mid rise with a medium sleep, midrise with a huge sleeper, and high rise with both the medium and large sleeper. From experience, the Volvo 780 (high rise, big bunk) is a high demand truck and they are snapped up quickly. US Express ran these trucks with automatics in the era you are looking at, so they are out there. With close to a million miles, you are most likely looking in the $30k range.

- Volvo 670 is a high rise with a smaller bunk, price would be a little bit cheaper, maybe $25k range.

- If it's a daycab you're after, I don't know how prevalent the automatics were in the mid 2000s for that application, but have seen daycabs approaching 1m miles going for a little under $20k.

- it sounds silly, but blue trucks are the easiest to sell and sell for a bit more than any other colour. So depending on whether resale or purchase price is the bigger issue; beware that blue is how they get ya.

- the condition of the rubber is a huge factor when buying used, new virgin rubber all around can cost upwards of $7000. Low rolling resistance tires are an added bonus, but cast an eye toward the rubber - any bulging, splitting or cracks if the truck has been sitting should come straight off the price, also if tires are recaps (michelin pattern on BF Goodrich casings or similarly mismatching tires) should be setting off alarm bells.

- aluminum wheels over steel have value in that they are lighter and polish up nice, not much uglier than painted steel wheels

Large HP motor will cost you a lot of fuel unnecessarily if you're hauling a light camper, and depending on where you're planning to park it, it may be worth looking at converting a tandem axle to a single axle. Donating the tires, rims, wheels, jackshaft, axle and differential might save you half the cost of the work or more to remove the rear axle. There are plenty of LTL companies that run single axle day cabs, but I have never really looked for this set up since it's not practical for me.

- pull an oil sample and spend the money to send it to a lab. There is really no other way to truly know the condition of the motor. I don't recommend bench testing at a dealership, and the volume of trucks moving off lots isn't usually such that if you had to wait a week or two on an oil sample, the truck would be gone. If they pressure you to pay a deposit, I would resist until the oil sample comes back at least.

My final piece of advice would be to read up on your state's laws about converting a former commercial vehicle into a pleasure craft: of course it can be done because people have done it, but the process may be extensive to change it's classification in state computers to a non-commercial vehicle. Find out what the laws are for scale houses too, some jurisdictions require all vehicles above a certain gross weight to pull in, some only require commercial vehicles!

 

Try an offer of at least 20% below what they are asking for, go from there. Whatever you do manage to settle on, regarding purchase price, try and see what type of warranty it has, and is it good any where in the country. Also, I think to avoid DOT scale houses, you have to register it as a camper? It'll be fun passing by scale houses, they can chase you too if they wish, but once they see the camper plate, they will just wish you a good trip.

You will get plenty of advice as to where to buy something, it would be good (I think), if it is a nationally know "store", so any warranty will be taken care of at another location.

 

First things first. I assume you know about escapees site >>>> http://www.rvnetwork.com and their HDT forum section. I also assume that you know about >>> http://www.jackdanmayer.com

Both of those sites are really good to get a lot of info if you haven't been there.

second let's start with how to look at a truck. I'll make this simple for me, I just woke up and trying to shake the sleep off.

I have the advice that I've used for years but no one seems to listen to it.

SO I will post it again -

1 - don't treat a truck like you would treat a car. It is a tool, and only a tool.

2 - be prepared to spend money on getting it looked at, buying tools sometimes takes money - I spent $1100 on just looking for a truck that cost me under $25k and hasn't failed me yet.

3 - start with the questions -

a - how long have you owned this truck? some people will be the original owners while other trucks are fleet trucks so if they are fleet trucks don't ask the question.
b - when was the last oil change? very important for one reason, if it had its oil changed and then put up for sale the OA will not tell a lot so ...
c - why are you getting rid of it? I started to ask this question because one truck I looked at last year was going into repo and the owner was trying to sell it to get out of the loan.
d - are there any maintenance records? Of course you have to take this with a grain of salt, a lot of companies and owners alike will have what I call receipt records, just enough for the taxes but that's it.
e - who does your PM work? I found out why this is important when one owner said he got his PM work done at any T/A that the truck was near, figure that it meant no consistent service was done.

4 - if the questions are answered to my satisfaction, then I ask for a road test and to be allowed to have a dyno done, a OA done and some sort of inspection from an independent mechanic. I would even do this with fleet trucks.
a - if it passes the dyno, then I have the OA done and off to an inspector to see what problems they can find and I tell them to tell me about everything they find.
b - if it passes the OA and inspection, then I look for repairs that need to be made from the inspection. I figure that into the offer I will make, sometimes people are insulted when I break down the list of things that the truck needs, had one guy get mad at me to even infer his truck was actually junk because of the brake work it needed - about $2000 worth of work which I mentioned in my offer.

5 - I do this for three trucks, picking out the best one and offering to buy that one. I never gave an asking price for a truck, I always offered less than 75% minus the repairs as a general rule. <<< I got to add ... this is negotiation, which means you have to be willing to go up to and not down from the asking price. It sometimes gets frustrating but I don't push the issue with a few nos and ask for counter offers. If the guy/gal sits on a firm price, I walk unless it is a great deal.

Hope this helps and enjoy the truck, it is a good decision to haul rvs.

 

All great advice for any vehicle purchase, and equipment.

 

Great advice folks. I have looked into the laws for my state and quite a few other states, I will avoid California mainly because I have been there many times and dont feel opening myself to their DOT while on vacation is the way to spend a vacation! In my state it will have to have a fridge, an inverter and I will have to remove the air lines for the trailer. They also say they want the commercial hitch removed but some have gotten away with keeping it so I will cross that bridge when I come to it, I am prepared either way. The 780s are nice, I like the work station too but I'm trying to keep the wheelbase down. The 670s I see at least the newer ones have the workstation, do the older ones? Do most 670's have a fridge? My top choices are the 780 with a shorter wheelbase or a 670 with a workstation if I could find it. A good deal on a 630 would be acceptable. I think 430/450 is plenty but common are 450/465/485hp so again the deal will determine what I end up with, any of those are plenty for my situation. Also, I am familiar with the websites listed, they do have a lot of useful information, think you have to be a paid member for the really good stuff, I guess it would be a small price to pay to glean some useful info, I'll take another look at them.
Greatly appreciate all the things to watch out for, I will shoot for the 20% mark, any other haggling do's/donts or examples of what % you knocked off is still appreciated!