My time with CR England as a lease operator.

EZX1100 · Oct 25, 2012

Snowlyon said: ↑

Both.

I got hounded about it, but I told my DM that under no circumstances would I become a trainer. I ran solo and my girlfriend and my dog road with me. It was my home and I didn't want some person I didn't know in my truck. Since I would not train, they starved me for miles until Horizon cancelled my contract because I was so far behind. My last week I ran 3400 miles! It was awesome! I was getting excited that all my begging for more miles had finally worked and things were turning around. Then I spent a whole weekend sitting at a TS trying to get a load and being ignored by everyone. Finally found out that I had to go to Burns Harbor to turn in my truck. Then had to figure out how to get us 1200 miles home with no money.

They want you to train. If you don't they WILL get rid of you. They make it sound so good and show you lots of good numbers, but its all smoke and mirrors.
Click to expand...

did you know in your lease you could have stopped working for England and leased on to another carrier. they cannot stop you from doing it, because the lease company is "separate" from CREngland

you can even get your own authority and run that truck as you wish

they took the truck from you because you didnt realize that you had full autonomy of that truck as a lessor, to run under any company you wanted to

same contract clause is with prime, most guys dont read the contract

at orientation they tell you to put it away because you wont need it, but truth be told, they dont want you to read it

The Snowman · Nov 14, 2012

Well said. Ever time I was back in SLC or Burns Harbor I tried to talk the kids out of leases, but time after time I was picking up there trucks weeks later. I bought diner for many a staving CRE solo Lease drivers. It's sad how greedy the England Family is they are a disgrace to the Mormon Church.

I was lucky during training I was given some great advice to go in to the relief and recovery fleet at England. I made as much as 900 solo a week and some 300 weeks, but on average 600. It's the only way to make money at England. and I got a lot of frequent flyer miles to boot.

The Snowman · Nov 14, 2012

.................Delete

The Snowman · Nov 14, 2012

Infomad said: ↑

Having quit CR England a few months ago, I do know a bit how the lease program works. And no, they don't force you to lease. But they will push you to lease after your 30 days of training with an on the road trainer. If you don't lease they will require longer training. Even being quite shifty about it, like having you come in for their training upgrade program knowing they are going to refuse to upgrade you because of you being 1 day short of having a full 60 days training. An then they will tell you that you have to either go back out with a trainer, which may take a few more weeks before you can get routed back to upgrade, or you could just lease. Dirty....
Now it doesn't matter what the recruiter told you. Everything the recruiter told you is empty promises. This I feel I can guarantee with a certainty.

My first lease was a 6 month demo that I did with a friend. When it was up, he went his way I stayed with CR England for more "experience", by leasing a truck that had 9 months left on the lease. I had plans to purchase it at that point.

I started the second lease solo, but I still had my same DM and had proved that I was reliable, with no late loads, accidents, or problems with customers. During my first lease we were typically giving really tightly scheduled runs or were asked to swap loads that were going to be late. So when I started the new lease I was given plenty of miles but after a month I realized there was no way to make money. I could see that I was gonna average about 900 to 1200 a month before tax. Their lease is just designed that way, it is to cause you the need to have a student or partner, if you want to make better money. But if you listen to a solo lease operator for CR england they will say how they made 1500 last week... Maybe they did but they didn't make anything for the prior 3 weeks and is not going to make anything for the next few either.

So I became a phase 1 trainer at that point, I hated it. But it is the only way to make money with the lease program. Typically as a phase 1 trainer, which isn't possible until you have 6 month experience, my bring home was 1,000 to 2,000 per week before tax, average most weeks 1500.
But as a trainer you have to work with students. Which is the draw back to the money you make when using a student. So as you can imagine you get little sleep. Real little. The quality of students coming from the school is ridiculous. The school does little to teach navigation or finding where you are if you make a wrong turn and maps seem to be an impossibility to some students. But as a phase 1 trainer, it is all to be expected. Some grind bad, some can't back up to save their life, some never can understand the qualcomm or logging, and trip planning is usually well beyond most of their capabilities. I always loved asking where we were? What road are we on? What was that bridge height? How do you get back to the interstate from this truck stop? (Should be simple, but...)

But on to the lease pay.
Basically as stated by CE England for a lease operator it is .90 per mile. But it is actually .76 per mile.
CR england, or rather Horizon the leasing company (Which is basically a sister company of CR England). Taxes you .14 per mile. They call this the "variable mileage fee". They will tell you it is actually .13, since they put .01 into an account for you while you are leasing as a down payment on the purchase of your leased truck, if you want to buy it at the end of your lease. Just to note, when you turn in a lease and are not planning to buy the truck, they will find 3 to 4 thousand dollars worth a repairs and maintenance that needs to be done to the truck to either get it ready to be re-leased or to turn back into the leasing company after the third year of the lease is up. So don't expect to see that .01 cent since they will use that to cover that cost.
But this .14 fee is costly. .14 x 5000 miles = $700.

Then they have equinox, basically they are a book keeping and tax preparation and they will cost $36 a week if I recall correctly. Then you get charged to use a student which is 261.52 per week.
Then there are other things
Around 500.00 per week truck payment
.07 to a maintenance account. Which will be taken to help cover the 3 to 4 thousand for repairs at the end of the lease.
182.00 per week Truck insurance
47.00 per week license and permits.
.015 per mile for fuel tax.
Don't waste fuel, you pay for it. Even as a lease, you can chose your own route. But don't be dumb about it. An idling will really tap into your money.
England has 2 fuel programs. one is a standard rebate, which I used, the other is a fixed cost for fuel 1.25 last time I was on that program.

There are people that say CR England took their last check. If your maintenance account and the .01 from the Variable mileage fee doesn't cover the 3 to 4 thousand when you turn in a lease they will take your last check to cover that cost. It just feels wrong.

Basically it is a business and you have to run it like it is. The student is your employee. If they are a bad employee you notify the TC (training coordinator) and your DM. I never left a trainee anywhere. But I did have to be routed through the burns harbor facility to dump one on the TC's there to deal with.

I never hid anything from the student concerning how to operate the lease. I showed them all my statements went through the math with them showed them pitfalls. Only a couple was even willing to learn it. The rest were unwilling to learn it or unable. I told those not to lease a truck. Stick around in training and become a company driver. Sadly 3 of the worst ones took took on 3 year leases! Not 6 month demo leases but full 3 year leases. None of them last more than 2 months and it was always CR Englands fault. CR Englands fault they got stuck on the toll road in OK with no money. The companies fault they they weren't getting miles, even though they couldn't route or navigate US highways, CR England's fault for charging them for all that fuel they use to idle, CR Englands fault that they got caught by DOT for bad logging or obviously not doing inspections.

I wouldn't recommend CR England to anyone unless they were just desperate for a job. An then only those that I think have the desire/ability to actually learn.
While CR England is a shifty company that works to make money off of its own employees. A great many of the failed employees should never have been hired to begin with.

Just a collection of thoughts I want to though out there.
Click to expand...

Well said. Ever time I was back in SLC or Burns Harbor I tried to talk the kids out of leases, but time after time I was picking up there trucks weeks later. I bought diner for many a staving CRE solo Lease drivers. It's sad how greedy the England Family is they are a disgrace to the Mormon Church.

I was lucky during training I was given some great advice to go in to the relief and recovery fleet at England. I made as much as 900 solo a week and some 300 weeks, but on average 600. It's the only way to make money at England. and I got a lot of frequent flyer miles to boot.

Truckermoonpie · Mar 3, 2019

I had to leave CR England Smithfield Tarheel regional run. I never once grossed 1200-1500 pay. One time I did gross 707 with 3 days of Orientation paid and short haul pay.
They assigned me a old damaged western star with a broken apu bunk heater, the passenger side window was down and would not go up. I called the Tarheel shop. I was told. #### dude put a trash bag in the window and roll.
I refused. They got me another truck that was a newer truck but it was beaten up and trashed on the inside. And after 3 days with this truck, the obc stopped working. I turned the truck in this past Wednesday night.
Never got the 3 days layover pay as promised. Never got the cleaning pay.
I have Been in trucking for 28 years. Simply not my kind of trucking.

drvrtech77 · Mar 11, 2019

Truckermoonpie said: ↑

I had to leave CR England Smithfield Tarheel regional run. I never once grossed 1200-1500 pay. One time I did gross 707 with 3 days of Orientation paid and short haul pay.
They assigned me a old damaged western star with a broken apu bunk heater, the passenger side window was down and would not go up. I called the Tarheel shop. I was told. #### dude put a trash bag in the window and roll.
I refused. They got me another truck that was a newer truck but it was beaten up and trashed on the inside. And after 3 days with this truck, the obc stopped working. I turned the truck in this past Wednesday night.
Never got the 3 days layover pay as promised. Never got the cleaning pay.
I have Been in trucking for 28 years. Simply not my kind of trucking.
Click to expand...

28 years and you went to England?

B12ride · Jul 7, 2019

Infomad said: ↑

Having quit CR England a few months ago, I do know a bit how the lease program works. And no, they don't force you to lease. But they will push you to lease after your 30 days of training with an on the road trainer. If you don't lease they will require longer training. Even being quite shifty about it, like having you come in for their training upgrade program knowing they are going to refuse to upgrade you because of you being 1 day short of having a full 60 days training. An then they will tell you that you have to either go back out with a trainer, which may take a few more weeks before you can get routed back to upgrade, or you could just lease. Dirty....
Now it doesn't matter what the recruiter told you. Everything the recruiter told you is empty promises. This I feel I can guarantee with a certainty.

My first lease was a 6 month demo that I did with a friend. When it was up, he went his way I stayed with CR England for more "experience", by leasing a truck that had 9 months left on the lease. I had plans to purchase it at that point.

I started the second lease solo, but I still had my same DM and had proved that I was reliable, with no late loads, accidents, or problems with customers. During my first lease we were typically giving really tightly scheduled runs or were asked to swap loads that were going to be late. So when I started the new lease I was given plenty of miles but after a month I realized there was no way to make money. I could see that I was gonna average about 900 to 1200 a month before tax. Their lease is just designed that way, it is to cause you the need to have a student or partner, if you want to make better money. But if you listen to a solo lease operator for CR england they will say how they made 1500 last week... Maybe they did but they didn't make anything for the prior 3 weeks and is not going to make anything for the next few either.

So I became a phase 1 trainer at that point, I hated it. But it is the only way to make money with the lease program. Typically as a phase 1 trainer, which isn't possible until you have 6 month experience, my bring home was 1,000 to 2,000 per week before tax, average most weeks 1500.
But as a trainer you have to work with students. Which is the draw back to the money you make when using a student. So as you can imagine you get little sleep. Real little. The quality of students coming from the school is ridiculous. The school does little to teach navigation or finding where you are if you make a wrong turn and maps seem to be an impossibility to some students. But as a phase 1 trainer, it is all to be expected. Some grind bad, some can't back up to save their life, some never can understand the qualcomm or logging, and trip planning is usually well beyond most of their capabilities. I always loved asking where we were? What road are we on? What was that bridge height? How do you get back to the interstate from this truck stop? (Should be simple, but...)

But on to the lease pay.
Basically as stated by CE England for a lease operator it is .90 per mile. But it is actually .76 per mile.
CR england, or rather Horizon the leasing company (Which is basically a sister company of CR England). Taxes you .14 per mile. They call this the "variable mileage fee". They will tell you it is actually .13, since they put .01 into an account for you while you are leasing as a down payment on the purchase of your leased truck, if you want to buy it at the end of your lease. Just to note, when you turn in a lease and are not planning to buy the truck, they will find 3 to 4 thousand dollars worth a repairs and maintenance that needs to be done to the truck to either get it ready to be re-leased or to turn back into the leasing company after the third year of the lease is up. So don't expect to see that .01 cent since they will use that to cover that cost.
But this .14 fee is costly. .14 x 5000 miles = $700.

Then they have equinox, basically they are a book keeping and tax preparation and they will cost $36 a week if I recall correctly. Then you get charged to use a student which is 261.52 per week.
Then there are other things
Around 500.00 per week truck payment
.07 to a maintenance account. Which will be taken to help cover the 3 to 4 thousand for repairs at the end of the lease.
182.00 per week Truck insurance
47.00 per week license and permits.
.015 per mile for fuel tax.
Don't waste fuel, you pay for it. Even as a lease, you can chose your own route. But don't be dumb about it. An idling will really tap into your money.
England has 2 fuel programs. one is a standard rebate, which I used, the other is a fixed cost for fuel 1.25 last time I was on that program.

There are people that say CR England took their last check. If your maintenance account and the .01 from the Variable mileage fee doesn't cover the 3 to 4 thousand when you turn in a lease they will take your last check to cover that cost. It just feels wrong.

Basically it is a business and you have to run it like it is. The student is your employee. If they are a bad employee you notify the TC (training coordinator) and your DM. I never left a trainee anywhere. But I did have to be routed through the burns harbor facility to dump one on the TC's there to deal with.

I never hid anything from the student concerning how to operate the lease. I showed them all my statements went through the math with them showed them pitfalls. Only a couple was even willing to learn it. The rest were unwilling to learn it or unable. I told those not to lease a truck. Stick around in training and become a company driver. Sadly 3 of the worst ones took took on 3 year leases! Not 6 month demo leases but full 3 year leases. None of them last more than 2 months and it was always CR Englands fault. CR Englands fault they got stuck on the toll road in OK with no money. The companies fault they they weren't getting miles, even though they couldn't route or navigate US highways, CR England's fault for charging them for all that fuel they use to idle, CR Englands fault that they got caught by DOT for bad logging or obviously not doing inspections.

I wouldn't recommend CR England to anyone unless they were just desperate for a job. An then only those that I think have the desire/ability to actually learn.
While CR England is a shifty company that works to make money off of its own employees. A great many of the failed employees should never have been hired to begin with.

Just a collection of thoughts I want to though out there.
Click to expand...

I've been with CRE for three months now, new driver, and everything I've learned so far about CRE you put it in the statement above. Everything you said it's true.

TheBlue · Oct 15, 2019

Hello,

I am a current Cre Employee. I was looking for lease-program information. This post was helpful.

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My time with CR England as a lease operator.

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My time with CR England as a lease operator.

EZX1100 Road Train Member

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The Snowman <b> Master of Confusion</b>

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