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Off duty status question

Discussion in 'Trucking Industry Regulations' started by gravdigr, Jul 12, 2011.

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CondoCruiser The Legend

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Wash your hands before you post in this thread lostNfound!

LogsRus, sounds like that DOT officer is getting carried away. The guy answered the question honestly. Evidently he wasn't that smart. But really, offduty is offduty, slap the guy on his hand, don't take his paycheck. Some of these rules versus penalty are BS. It's not like he was breaking the critical rules. That DOT officer needs to get busy and write about a million more tickets for offduty on the wrong line.

CondoCruiser, Jul 17, 2011

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ronin Road Train Member

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LogsRus said: ↑

Wow! some things haven't changed, the mean remarks will never change huh..
Let me just explain that I have seen two inspections on my desk from DOT and the driver was fined for this. These are just the one's I actually seen and was not years and years ago and I have been doing logs for 21 years.
One driver shows in the sleeper for "x" amount of hours, the officer ask the driver, "you was in the sleeper" here, driver "no sir, I was at my sisters", then why are you logging sleeper, that's a false log. The driver called me saying, why didn't they tell us there is a difference on lines 1 & 2? I said was you sleeping in orientation during logs, well maybe a little.. Ok.. There is your answer, I clearly explain this and always have prior to drivers getting wrote up for it.
Driver 2 showed off duty for "x" amt of hours, officer asked where was you,? driver said sleeper, officer said false log. There is a reason for line 1,2,3 & 4.

Off duty means you are relieved from all responsibility, when under dispatch the company must allow you to log off duty for meal breaks/personal time or it's on-duty when eating etc. This permission must be given to you prior to dispatch,most companies do this by giving you a card when you hire on. Look on the back of your medical/qualification card, that's where most put it.
If you are not under dispatch and you are away from the truck, this can be logged as off duty, however if your body is in the sleeper you must log sleeper.

(1) Off duty. Except for time spent resting in a sleeper berth, a continuous line shall be drawn between the appropriate time markers to record the period(s) of time when the driver is not on duty, is not required to be in readiness to work, or is not under any responsibility for performing work.

(2) Sleeper berth. A continuous line shall be drawn between the appropriate time markers to record the period(s) of time off duty resting in a sleeper berth, as defined in §395.2. (If a non-sleeper berth operation, sleeper berth need not be shown on the grid.)

http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regu...fmcsr/fmcsrruletext.aspx?reg=395.1&guidence=Y

Regulation Q&A
Question 26: May a driver record sleeper berth time as off-duty time on line one of the record of duty status?

Guidance: No. The drivers record of duty status must accurately reflect the drivers activities.

Question 1: How should a change of duty status for a short period of time be shown on the drivers record of duty status?

Guidance: Short periods of time (less than 15 minutes) may be identified by drawing a line from the appropriate on-duty (not driving) or driving line to the remarks section and entering the amount of time, such as 6 minutes, and the geographic location of the duty status change.

If you are doing anything work related it must be logged on line 3 or 4, if you "flag" something work related while showing sleeper, you can be written up for false log. It's saying you can notate on your log that you stopped for 7 minutes but not actually change your status to on-duty, in that scenario you are not saving time on your 70 hour because lines 3 & 4 count against your 60/70 hr.

Lets say you show a break of 10 hours in the sleeper, many officers (not all) will say, you never once got out of the truck to do anything, driver say's sure sir I went to the bathroom, the officer could write him up, once again for a "false" log unless he noted a change of status on his log.

Going from sleeper to restroom is a duty status change.
Is it kind of crazy, maybe but just trying to save each of you a possible fine down the road. Many officers will say, lines 1 & 2 is the same, it doesn't matter. Then you have many other officers that know, this is an easy way to get a driver. If you don't know how to answer if asked, you could cause your own self to get a ticket, no watching needed.
There is nothing against the regs from allowing a driver going from line 1/2 on their 10 hour break so why not log it as you do it If you are taking only an 8 hour sleeper break, you must be in the sleeper for the 8 hours.

If you are driving and stop and use the restroom for 5 minutes you can leave it logged as driving and note the 5 minutes on your log and not subtract that 5 minutes off your "11" hour rule (the book still needs to change the 10 to 11 on many cases)
See below:
Question 22: If a driver logs his/her duty status as driving but makes multiple short stops (each less than 15 minutes) for on-duty or off-duty activities, marks a vertical line on the grid for each stop, and records the elapsed time for each in the remarks section of the grid, would the aggregate time spent on those non-driving activities be counted against the 10-hour driving limit?

Guidance: No. On-duty not driving time or off-duty time is not counted against the 10-hour driving limit.

What you chose to do is your choice,however for those doing it correctly should not be criticized because they are the one's that won't have to worry about DOT writing them up and the driver giving his hard earned money to the state he/she was written up in Keep up the good work to those that listen and or are doing it correctly already.
Slam me all you want, probably won't read it for a while anyhow l.o.l.
for the old one's here that know me, I
keep trying to visit daily but darn farm town has me whipped.. l.o.l.
Click to expand...

Reminds me of a "story" I heard in a Flying J not long ago.... how the guy got a ticket for being at his sister's house instead of in his sleeper... please.

ronin, Jul 17, 2011

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SuperLiner Light Load Member

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LogsRus said: ↑

<<<<<< Snip >>>>>>>>>

Off duty means you are relieved from all responsibility, when under dispatch the company must allow you to log off duty for meal breaks/personal time or it's on-duty when eating etc. This permission must be given to you prior to dispatch,most companies do this by giving you a card when you hire on. Look on the back of your medical/qualification card, that's where most put it.
If you are not under dispatch and you are away from the truck, this can be logged as off duty, however if your body is in the sleeper you must log sleeper.

(1) Off duty. Except for time spent resting in a sleeper berth, a continuous line shall be drawn between the appropriate time markers to record the period(s) of time when the driver is not on duty, is not required to be in readiness to work, or is not under any responsibility for performing work.

(2) Sleeper berth. A continuous line shall be drawn between the appropriate time markers to record the period(s) of time off duty resting in a sleeper berth, as defined in §395.2. (If a non-sleeper berth operation, sleeper berth need not be shown on the grid.)

http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regu...fmcsr/fmcsrruletext.aspx?reg=395.1&guidence=Y

Regulation Q&A
Question 26: May a driver record sleeper berth time as off-duty time on line one of the record of duty status?

Guidance: No. The drivers record of duty status must accurately reflect the drivers activities. <<<<< Snip >>>>>>

.
Click to expand...

Then I would have screwed up... According to what is written above. I can't pull into a truck stop at night after running my 11, or running out of my 14, shut down, go off duty and sleep in the truck ?? how about a 34 Hr. Restart on the road? I can't sleep in the truck for any of the 34 Hrs.?
That must be tough for OO's whose truck is also their home.

I must be missing something here "and yes it may well be my own lack of knowledge and understanding". "Currently I run 100 air mile max. dist, 12 Hr. max duty, start / stop where you started... no log required" But am looking to change that and go OTR again.

So I either have to rent a motel room to sleep in, or stay awake while off duty if there is nowhere else to sleep besides the truck?

Hmmmm. I'd better hit the books I guess

SuperLiner, Jul 18, 2011

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LogsRus said: ↑

Question 1: How should a change of duty status for a short period of time be shown on the drivers record of duty status?

Guidance: Short periods of time (less than 15 minutes) may be identified by drawing a line from the appropriate on-duty (not driving) or driving line to the remarks section and entering the amount of time, such as 6 minutes, and the geographic location of the duty status change.

If you are doing anything work related it must be logged on line 3 or 4, if you "flag" something work related while showing sleeper, you can be written up for false log. It's saying you can notate on your log that you stopped for 7 minutes but not actually change your status to on-duty, in that scenario you are not saving time on your 70 hour because lines 3 & 4 count against your 60/70 hr.
Click to expand...

Actually, it is still a change of duty status, just like it says in "question 1". If it is less than 15 minutes you just show it differently. You do not have to draw the line on the graph grid, because all it has is 15-minute increments.

You do not just "flag" it, you enter the location and amount of time in the remarks section. For instance, "Denver, CO, PTI 8 minutes". This still adds to your On-duty/not driving time. The time does not go away just because it is less than 15 minutes.

And it does "actually change your status".

Scalemaster, Jul 18, 2011

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Pedigreed Bulldog Road Train Member

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SuperLiner said: ↑

Then I would have screwed up... According to what is written above. I can't pull into a truck stop at night after running my 11, or running out of my 14, shut down, go off duty and sleep in the truck ?? how about a 34 Hr. Restart on the road? I can't sleep in the truck for any of the 34 Hrs.?
That must be tough for OO's whose truck is also their home.

I must be missing something here "and yes it may well be my own lack of knowledge and understanding". "Currently I run 100 air mile max. dist, 12 Hr. max duty, start / stop where you started... no log required" But am looking to change that and go OTR again.

So I either have to rent a motel room to sleep in, or stay awake while off duty if there is nowhere else to sleep besides the truck?

Hmmmm. I'd better hit the books I guess
Click to expand...

You cannot be "off duty" while in the truck. If you have a sleeper berth, that's what line 2 is for....it allows you to be in the truck while not "on duty". If you do not have a sleeper berth, you cannot take a legal break in the truck, and you certainly cannot take a 34 hour restart in the truck because you must be "on duty" any time you are in the truck unless you are in a sleeper berth.

So, if you run the road in a day cab, you must either get a motel room, or do like I have on occasion and catch some shut-eye on a blanket spread out under a shade tree...or on a park bench...either of which is easier to do if you've got an 85+ pound dog on a leash around your wrist who will alert you to any ne'er-do-well's that start heading over in your direction. As long as you are not in the truck, and not doing anything work related, you can be off duty.

Pedigreed Bulldog, Jul 18, 2011

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ronin Road Train Member

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How can you not be off-duty in the truck? If you're not under a load, not waiting for dispatch, and you're off until you tell your people otherwise...?

I'm not asking you, as if I'd need permission, I'm just commenting rhetorically - all this nitpicking and hair splitting over something so meaningless is a sure cause for headaches. Unneeded ones, at that.

ronin, Jul 18, 2011

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123456, American-Trucker, Onetruckpony and 1 other person Thank this.
lostNfound Road Train Member

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ronin said: ↑

How can you not be off-duty in the truck? If you're not under a load, not waiting for dispatch, and you're off until you tell your people otherwise...?

I'm not asking you, as if I'd need permission, I'm just commenting rhetorically - all this nitpicking and hair splitting over something so meaningless is a sure cause for headaches. Unneeded ones, at that.
Click to expand...

It is dumb, but that is the way the current regulations are written. I have posted all the appropriate regs in this thread (I think ). Anyhow, the FMCSA has seen the error of their ways and has seen fit to propose this part of the regs are made more sensible in the next change of the HOS (which I have also posted).

In real-life though, I can't imagine it being any concern... unless you're sleeping with the wife of the trooper that pulls you over.

lostNfound, Jul 18, 2011

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ronin Road Train Member

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I agree.... I mean I guess we could all conjure up these insane "what if" scenarios if a serial killer was involved in a traffic accident in a truckstop, and used your truck to kill his last victim... and you ended up testifying in COURT (God forbid... COURT) and your logs were checked... and the barometric pressure at the time of the crime was...

I digress.

Why do so many truck drivers use some wicked court-related scenario to justify their otherwise unjustifiable fears, usually involving regulations they either (a) don't understand or (b) will never use?

Sorry for the rant, I'm practicing for my first real comedy gig tomorrow night here in San Antonio.

ronin, Jul 19, 2011

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lostNfound Road Train Member

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ronin said: ↑

Why do so many truck drivers use some wicked court-related scenario to justify their otherwise unjustifiable fears, usually involving regulations they either (a) don't understand or (b) will never use?
Click to expand...

You ever driven I-80 across Nevada? The mind delves into some dark places.

lostNfound, Jul 19, 2011

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KD5AXG Thanks this.
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ronin said: ↑

How can you not be off-duty in the truck? If you're not under a load, not waiting for dispatch, and you're off until you tell your people otherwise...?

I'm not asking you, as if I'd need permission, I'm just commenting rhetorically - all this nitpicking and hair splitting over something so meaningless is a sure cause for headaches. Unneeded ones, at that.
Click to expand...

Not that I agree with the FMCSA, but it is in there for them to enforce.

http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regulations/administration/fmcsr/fmcsrruletext.aspx?reg=395.2

395.2

(4) All time, other than driving time, in or upon any commercial motor vehicle except time spent resting in a sleeper berth;

Roadmedic, Jul 19, 2011

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