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What to do in a riot?

Discussion in 'Questions From New Drivers' started by wyldhorses, Nov 26, 2014.

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stabob Heavy Load Member

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jbee said: ↑

It's great that everyone who has never suited up in Blue has the answer for everything. I usually agree with a lot of your posts pattyj, but this is one I'll have to go in the other direction based on personal knowledge and experience.

Big Don made mention of this earlier. I'm going to throw in my .02 and change.

Officers are taught and train in the "Escalation of Force" and "Use Of Force Continuum." Anytime any kind of force is used, whether it be O/C, Taser, Baton, Strong Hand etc, you have to fill out (At least most, if not all departments) a "Use Of Force" form and explain/articulate "Why."

Officers are also trained in the use of Deadly Force as well, learn it early on and continue to.

We are also trained in what's known as "Weapons Retention." The last thing an officer needs is to have their own service weapon used against them. And yes, many a LE Officer has died at the hands of their own gun. You go after my weapon and all bets are off. Period.

One night when I was on patrol, a drop yard sent a silent alarm signal to the Central Station and I was dispatched on it as I was closest and other units were tied up with a traffic accident. I was familiar with this location as Hi Value items were being stolen from the containers and no one as of yet had been caught. (This later turned out to be an inside job)

I made my approach, blacked out without any backup, and asked if the Central Station had received any more alarm trips. I was told they were still receiving motion in the yard. I got out of my unit and made entry into the yard. I stopped for a few minutes in the dark, looking and listening. I then heard metal to metal contact, looked in that direction and saw a vague outline in the shadows of someone that appeared to be moving. I made a wide flanking approach to the rear of one row of the containers, and observed a large male climbing down from the back of one several containers away. I made contact with my dispatch, notified them what I had and re -requested backup.

I stayed where I was at and he then began to move in my direction. I had no choice at that point and lit him up with my maglite, announced who I was, not to make any sudden moves, and keep his hands where I could see him. As I could now see him better, I knew who this individual was and his background. He was about 6' 8" and weighed in excess of 300 lbs. Now, I'm no small guy. I'm 6' At the time, I weighed 210, and was ripped like a brick "s" house. Even with that, I knew I had my hands full. He had been O/C'd in the past and tasered, with little to no effect. It took several officers to take him down the last time he was arrested. He continued to walk towards me. I then drew down on him and told him "Stop now or I'll drop you right where you stand." "As big as you are, there's no jury in the world that will convict me based on your size and mine." I think he knew by the sound of my voice that I mean't business. I held him at gunpoint until I finally got my backup.

Moral? The only recourse I knew I had with this man was deadly force. If he had gotten my weapon, I have no doubt he would have used it against me. And chances are I would have been in the fight for my life. I ain't scared of dying. What I am scared of is dying for no good reason when I would have had another choice.

And as an officer, we don't use warning shots like you see in the movies. We are also taught when using deadly force, you don't shoot to wound, you shoot to stop the threat until they are no longer a threat.

Summation. How does this apply to Officer Wilson?

Simple. As big as Michael Brown was and based on the size of Wilson, Wilson learned first hand:

How big Brown was and how strong Brown was. He also learned he was willing to try and make a grab of Wilsons service piece.

He (Brown) was able to get it out of the holster, but Wilson was able to maintain retention of it and it then went off as they struggled. According to a Grand Jury witness and Wilson's own testimony, Brown began walking away. Wilson then knew he couldn't just let him go and did what most police officers do and tried to get him to stop. Instead, Brown turns around, looks at Wilson with his weapon aimed at him and says words to the effect of "What, you think I'm scared of that?" and begins walking back towards Wilson and then begins to bum rush him.

At that point, Wilson made what he thought was the only choice he had, using what he already summed up so far by his encounter, and that was deadly force. Had it been me, I most likely would have done the exact same thing. Most service weapons that are department issue are Glock 22's, .40 cal semi automatic pistols. They have a capacity of 14 and one. 14 in the magazine and 1 in the chamber. Wilson used 6 and then stopped. Could he have used more? yes. But I believe he stopped just like he was taught....shoot until the threat is no longer a threat. Had Mr. Brown just complied with Officer Wilson's requests, he'd still be here today and none of this mob mentality would have surfaced. Instead, Brown did exactly what he did to the store owner (When he committed the strong arm robbery) to Officer Wilson and used his size as an intimidating factor. And if in fact, he had gotten to Officer Wilson, I know this for a fact. He would have gotten his gun and used it against him and killed him with it. AND NO ONE WOULD HAVE GIVEN THAT KIND OF OUTCOME A SECOND THOUGHT. NOT AL SHARPTON, ERIC HOLDER OR THE PRESIDENT. He thought it would work a second time and it didn't.

The jury agreed. Those are the armchair quarterbacks I'll listen to and it's a shame there are some in this world that won't or still wouldn't care otherwise once their mind is made up from rumors, lies, innuendos, and mistruths and not facts.

Below - Me on the right.
Click to expand...

Best post on this thread hands down.

stabob, Nov 26, 2014

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jbee Medium Load Member

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pattyj said: ↑

Why do you think thousands are protesting?
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Did everything I wrote in the post before this one, just go right over your head?

jbee, Nov 26, 2014

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bubbagumpshrimp Medium Load Member

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Cat sdp said: ↑

Cop cams would show what really happened......all officers should be equipped with them , no excuses .
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I agree. If I were a police chief...I'd want every officer in my department to have one. Why? They'd be a great way to weed out bad apples...and they'd be a great way to cover the officers *** in the event that something like this happened.

In this case, it wouldn't have made a difference though. If there was a UAV overhead filming the entire altercation, the officer had a video camera on him (i.e. Glasses cam), multiple individuals filmed the event from different angles and uploaded it online immediately, people would have still had the same reaction.

bubbagumpshrimp, Nov 26, 2014

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stabob Heavy Load Member

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bubbagumpshrimp said: ↑

I agree. If I were a police chief...I'd want every officer in my department to have one. Why? They'd be a great way to weed out bad apples...and they'd be a great way to cover the officers *** in the event that something like this happened.

In this case, it wouldn't have made a difference though. If there was a UAV overhead filming the entire altercation, the officer had a video camera on him (i.e. Glasses cam), multiple individuals filmed the event from different angles and uploaded it online immediately, people would have still had the same reaction.
Click to expand...

I think a glasses cam would have been knocked off by a 300lb backed punch

stabob, Nov 26, 2014

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Joetro Road Train Member

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pattyj said: ↑

Why do you think thousands are protesting?
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You've lost me, here, Patty. Are you saying Wilson went to work that day with that question in his head? You seem bent on crucifying the officer regardless of the evidence presented.

Joetro, Nov 26, 2014

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stabob said: ↑

I think a glasses cam would have been knocked off by a 300lb backed punch
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I'm sure it would have. My point was only that in this situation...there's no amount of evidence that would have satisfied the opposing side.

bubbagumpshrimp, Nov 26, 2014

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I can't believe that cell phone video of the incident isn't all over the intranet ......

Cat sdp, Nov 26, 2014

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pattyj Road Train Member

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It sure did.You're too long winded just make it a paragraph at most.

jbee said: ↑

Did everything I wrote in the post before this one, just go right over your head?
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pattyj, Nov 26, 2014

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DrFlush Road Train Member

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pattyj said: ↑

How unfailr our justice system is.Tired of we the little ppl get convicted before trial when if a person of the law does something they get away with it.Law needs to be fair and work for EVERYONE not just a selected few.People are fed up, tired and very angry.Unfortunately it took a dead man for everyone to finally come together.I hope no one caves until laws are changed.
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I guess you don't remember the Tawana Brialey circus then, when the black teenage girl cried rape against a white cop in Poughkeepsie NY, Al Sharpton came in spouting his racist bs, long story short, she admitted to lying about the whole thing, Sharpton went slithering back to his hideout, but not before the cops life was ruined. I have no idea why anyone listens to anything Sharpton says. You really need to get better educated on these matters. Obama, Holder, Sharpton and the rest of the racists are dividing the country.

DrFlush, Nov 26, 2014

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pattyj said: ↑

It sure did.You're too long winded just make it a paragraph at most.
Click to expand...

So, you admit to ignoring an informative post because it was too long for you to read?

See, this is the reason the rioters and protesters are doing what they're doing. They are too busy - strike that - too lazy to read up on the facts and blindly follow what the media and the interwebz tell them. Same reason we have the administration we do today.

Joetro, Nov 26, 2014

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