HOS new rules

Discussion in 'Ask An Owner Operator' started by Beaver9, Sep 21, 2020.

  1. TallJoe

    TallJoe Road Train Member

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    Not sure, I'd have to check and test it when I see something in red but some officers don't care about the output files and they just want to scroll through the active screen. I had a random road side inspection and the cop just asked "Can I have your tablet for a minute? Then he just scrolled a few pages and said "OK. I don't see anything in red, all looking good..." then he handed the tablet back to me.
     
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  3. mathematrucker

    mathematrucker Medium Load Member

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    OK now I'm optimistic that we're going to agree in the end, because you've hit on the ridiculous aspect of the new rule: since 10-hour breaks fulfill the break requirement all by themselves, they cannot be combined with some other break to form a split sleeper berth break. Therefore the new rule has nothing to say about them and doesn't extend the 14 if you start your work shift after a 10+ break.

    Like I said earlier, I think the FMCSA got so mired in mountains of stupid stuff, they evidently failed to observe that their new rule about the split sleeper berth break has implications for the ordinary 10-hour break as well. I have no other explanation, because I can't imagine they'd put forth the new rule as-is if they ever noticed that it creates a logical inconsistency whereby less-rested drivers get rewarded with an extension of their 14 when better-rested drivers don't.
     
  4. Long FLD

    Long FLD Road Train Member

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    I’ve been off since Friday afternoon. When I leave in the morning there’s nothing stopping me from utilizing a split sleeper when it comes to my log. I don’t have to log 7 or 8 hours in the sleeper tonight just in case I want to split sleeper tomorrow. At some point you have to go from regular logging to split. Call me simple minded or whatever, but I’m not falsifying my current logs just in case I want to split it.

    Anyway, I don’t have a dog in this fight so you guys keep on battling it out over what you think the rule means versus what it says. I think I’m going on 7 weeks of zero on duty time thanks to the Covid extension. Logging is simple when you PC all week.
     
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  5. TallJoe

    TallJoe Road Train Member

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    Not so quick! My mind is essentially set on this already and I don't nesesery want to convince anyone to this or that. Actually, from a competitive point of view, the less people do it, the better for me. Yeah...you guys better stay on a safe side and stick to the older rules about split breaking and 14 hour clock! After all, I might be wrong...

    I am going to haul essential goods next week too. So I am not that worse off from you either. How about running down to Miami 1400 miles straight on coffee breaks only....kidding of course
     
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  6. Cattleman84

    Cattleman84 Road Train Member

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    This is incorrect... You can pair a split berth with a 10 hour IF at least 7 hours (or 8 hours if shorter break was 2 hours) of that 10 hour break is done in the sleeper berth. This was a question I specifically asked on a confrence call with a gentleman from the FMCSA and my compliance guy.
     
  7. mathematrucker

    mathematrucker Medium Load Member

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    Alright, after looking back at that I can't expect anyone including you TallJoe to accept what I am saying here about the 10-hour break to be self-evidently true. I need to explain my reasoning.

    I have two reasons, one more compelling than the other, for accepting that as not only how the rule was meant to be interpreted, but also how it is being interpreted (by at least one ELD manufacturer, namely Peoplenet).

    The less-compelling reason is what I just wrote---that's how my Peoplenet tablet is interpreting the rule.

    The more-compelling reason is very compelling and makes total sense: if a 10+ break could be used as the first 7+ break in a split sleeper berth break, then the new rule would effectively just be "the first 2+ break during any work shift does not count against the 14" (assuming the previous break is long enough to complete the 10 hours). But that's not what it says, and thus I don't think that's how the FMCSA meant for it to be interpreted. If they did, then why did they bother tying the language of it to a split break?

    I see that as strong evidence that no extension of the 14 occurs from your first 2+ break when your work shift starts after a 10+ break.

    With that said, let's forget I said it, because a 10+ break technically does contain a 7+ break in it, so in the final analysis (an analysis that I already know you agree with TallJoe), a precise reading of the HOS rules would lead one to conclude it's simply not true that the split sleeper berth scenario is not present when you take a 2+ break after a 10+ break. I mean, it's sitting right there---there's obviously a 7+ break contained in that 10+ break, followed by a 2+, so you technically do have a split sleeper berth break no matter what the FMCSA tries to tell you.

    In the very final analysis, the FMCSA is a complete joke of an organization that should be abolished.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2020
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  8. mathematrucker

    mathematrucker Medium Load Member

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    OK I have no problem with accepting this. It only makes sense. It means my ELD isn't applying the new rule correctly, but hey, what else is new. The FMCSA shouldn't be relying on individual conference calls to explain their rules. If they can't write them into the law well enough to cover something as basic as this they should get a new job.
     
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  9. mathematrucker

    mathematrucker Medium Load Member

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    It's worth pointing out, this does not refute what I have been saying about there being no scenario in which the legality of driving during any given minute depends on some future break being taken or not. All it says is that assuming you used line 2 for the last however-long of your 10+ to make your first 2+ break suffice for a full 10-hour split, then you get to extend your 14 by that 2+ break. "The ELD doesn't know yet" is still a bogus argument that indicates a driver doesn't understand the new rule. To be more specific, it's because they overlook that the 14-hour clock corresponding to a split break begins after the first break in the split.
     
  10. Cattleman84

    Cattleman84 Road Train Member

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    I agree that the eld doesnt know yet is a bogus excuse... And in some logging scenarios just shows that eld programmers have ZERO understanding of HOS.
     
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  11. Lucky12

    Lucky12 Medium Load Member

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    FWIW I will offer the following:

    I use Omnitracs on a Qualcomm for a mega. Assuming a driver took a minimum 2 hour break then returned to driving, the ELD does not yet perceive the desire to do a split. When the 7+ hour sleeper berth is taken, the Omnitracs has a box that the driver must check that says "Pair with prior **** for split sleeper" (paraphrasing). When that box is checked it is a split, if that box is not checked it's not. I don't think the minute break would do anything on Omnitracs, it's all about whether or not that box is checked. I think the reverse scenario would also be the same, assuming the 7+ in sleeper was taken first, there would be a check box on the 2+ off duty (or sleeper). It's all a matter of selecting that box. While still in the selected duty status of the second half of the split the driver can check or uncheck that box and go through the other screens and view how it effects their clock and available hours. The point about what to do if inspected by the DOT prior to 2nd half is very valid imo. My presumption is that the driver will need to be prepared to explain their intent and the DOT will need to understand how the new HOS works. Short of that on either end could likely be problematic.
     
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