ELD question!

Discussion in 'Questions From New Drivers' started by Kspin6, Jun 13, 2021.

  1. ZVar

    ZVar Road Train Member

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    The moment you go on-duty you draw the line from the start time to the end time of driving. This isn't rocket surgery you know. I also gave another indication. simply put a dot at the start time, or even a small vertical dash, or any other mark that isn't a horizontal line.

    Not by regulations, no. Only up to the last duty change.

    P.S. You seem to think paper logs aren't still legal. They are (in some cases) and the regulations for them are still in effect. Most not having a change in decades.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2021
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  3. Moose1958

    Moose1958 Road Train Member

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    Yes, having something in line 3 like a dot of a short dash would 100% satisfy 395.8 (f)(1), and that I can agree with. That first part I am choosing to ignore simply in my view pre-drawing a horizontal line is foolish I would never do that.

    No, not hung up just stating that general OTR drivers driving 18 wheelers no longer use paper logs by routine. Yes, some exceptions.

    Now I am done, I have a T-Bone and a large baked tater calling out to me! :downtown:
     
  4. dibstr

    dibstr Road Train Member

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    Actually I see Moose’s concern, in fact about 40 years or so ago I had the same concern, but if something is not a reg, it’s not a reg and can’t be enforced. If an officer does cite it, he made a mistake.
     
  5. ZVar

    ZVar Road Train Member

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    Which is why I always try to point to the actual regulation. 2 main reasons.

    1. How can you tell how close to a violation if you don't even know what the regulation is?
    2. Way too many officers simply don't know the law. The burned out light light example is a common one. It makes it so much easier to show the officer 393.9(a) doesn't allow them to write a citation for a chicken light out. Of course you have to be respectable and the officer has to be willing to learn, but it's better to try that than fight it in court.
     
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  6. Moose1958

    Moose1958 Road Train Member

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    I was not violated for not drawing a line! I was violated because I was in violation of 395.8 (f)(1). I was NOT violated for violating 395.8 (h). I did NOT change my duty status when I left Dallas. As @ZVar has correctly pointed out a dot or a small dash would have satisfied 395.8 (f)(1) as well as 395.8 (h). Another point. From my earliest days of trucking, I was taught to keep my logs neat and legible. I used a small ruler and drew both vertical and horizontal lines. Since I had a vertical line going all the way to the remarks section that flagged Dallas, Texas with nothing in line 3 after my pretrip I was showing NO change of duty and was violated for that. If I were NOT using vertical lines and had that flagged Dallas with a dot/dash in line 3 THEN that officer would have been wrong. As it was I am just thankful I did not also get a logbook ticket that day, I only got a violation that went into CSA/PSP.
     
  7. dibstr

    dibstr Road Train Member

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    Then that kind of explains things. I initially took what you stated “I forgot to draw a line from line 4 to line 3” as the truth. Sorry for the confusion. If you want to put a dot or a frowning face emoji to show you are driving that’s fine, but not required.
     
  8. brian991219

    brian991219 Road Train Member

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    Thanks M.

    The reasonable officer would agree with your assessment however some will still write the citation or note the violation on the inspection report even when it is a few days old. They can't place you outnof service but can still haslle you. With good notes in the remarks section most will let it slide.

    As for form and manner, yes they still happen with an ELD. The driver still must manually input some info such as load or trailer number so there are still form and manner violations I deal with daily.

    And yes, always submit a true and accurate log, even if it reflects a violation, as the penalties and consequences for a violation are far lower than a flase log issue should a severe crash or other major incident occur.
     
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  9. brian991219

    brian991219 Road Train Member

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    Unlike the non-required lamp issue with mudflaps if they are installed, even when not required, they must be installed and maintained correctly. The theory with the reflective tape is that when you turn the mudflap can extend outward beyond your trailer and cause a hazard therefore the reflectors must be installed even when the flap itself is otherwise not required.

    While these reflex reflectors and conspicuity tape is required is not spelled out in black and white per se but rather it is found in Table 1 of 393.11 when you look at the images of the rear of a tractor you will see note 8 and 14 which require these reflectors to be installed if there are mudflaps.
    Electronic Code of Federal Regulations (eCFR)
    Screenshot_20210615-092725_Samsung Internet.jpg
    Screenshot_20210615-092725_Samsung Internet.jpg Screenshot_20210615-092741_Samsung Internet.jpg
     
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  10. Moose1958

    Moose1958 Road Train Member

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    Thank you. I did speak to a safety critter early this morning about everything in this thread. He told me that even back in the days when they used paper he told new hires to log as per company policy. The system they used actually would reject paper logs that did not have both vertical or horizontal lines and almost every other form and manner mistake. The same with things like mudflaps, the company had a policy. I think this is my position on all these issues. If you are a company driver do it as per company policy. This also applies to OOs that are leased. If you are an OO running your own numbers you can play roadside attorney with the DOT.
     
  11. Shanebklyn

    Shanebklyn Bobtail Member

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    Lol so true
     
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