Want Truckers opinion

>>Well, that's not exactly what I had in mind when I asked that question, but more on that later....................

>>Perhaps the key word here is "erratically". But the fact remains that you DID pull in front of a speeding big rig. By your own admission. You may have misjudged the Big truck's speed, or the Big truck driver may have been accelerating to make it through the stale green light. Where as your lane change might not have been "erratic", it may have been unexpected by the Big truck driver.

>>Congratulations on your clean driving record.
I too, have a spotless driving record. The last citation I received was in the 1970's and in a 4-wheeler and before I became a Big truck driver. After becoming a Big truck driver, I averaged around 125,000 miles a year, whereas the *average* 4-wheeler driver puts about 12 to 15 thousand miles on an odometer. I have driven in all 48 lower United States in all kinds of weather, both loaded and empty. I figure I too, must be doing something right.

I have received numerous safety awards, and was a driver trainer for a large Big truck trucking company and was in demand by trainees because of my record and the way I trained. I was known as the *mellowest* trainer. During that time and the many years thereafter, I learned that there is usually more to a situation than meets the eye. And there are at least three sides to most stories. Of those three sides to a story, I'm most interested in the truth.

>>Did YOU not know that also?
Knowing the light was stale green, you STILL elected to make a lane change in front of a speeding Big rig that, by your estimation, was traveling in excess of 70 MPH, knowing that YOU might decide to stop if the light turned YELLOW?

>>Excuse me?!
At 70 MPH, I sincerely doubt that a Big truck would have ANY gear that a Big truck driver could "down shift" into. Nor would a Big truck driver necessarily have the TIME to do so. Big trucks AREN'T like gasoline powered engines in an automobile. Maximum RPM in many Big trucks is 2,100 RPM, and some as low as 1,800 RPM -- not 5,000 RPM, or more, like gasoline powered vehicles. Were you aware of that fact?

>>I couldn't agree more with that statement. But I sure wouldn't allow that to lull me into a false security. Always be aware of what's happening around you on the highways. Mistakes are made everyday out here. Unfortunately, one mistake can be the last mistake one makes.

>>It was I who made that observation due to your first post comments, which were as follows:
"It appeared the truck was 200 to 300 feet behind me.

I put on my left turn signal, got in the left lane. Light turned YELLOW BEFORE I ENTERED THE INTERSECTION. I STOPPED at a red light.

To my surprise that semi truck went in the left turn lane and blew through that red light doing 70 - 75 mph."

From that I gathered that you had the opportunity to continue through the intersection under a yellow light, rather than stopping in front of a speeding Big truck. Call it an *evasive* action if you will.

However, to remain stopped at a red light when a Big truck CAN'T stop, and you're in the same lane, --- by golly, I think the better choice would be to run the red light rather than have a Big truck slam into you at a high rate of speed. Again, call it an *evasive* action if you will. IMO, that would have been a wiser choice. I doubt that would be considered an illegal maneuver under the circumstances.

If my comments suggest to you that "this is a common occurrence in the trucking industry" it makes me wonder where common SENSE enters the picture. I think instead, you've made an assumption.

>>If you're looking for "logic",.......... "Logically" it isn't wise to STOP in front of a speeding Big truck. Where's the "logic" in that?
The Big truck was in the wrong. And it was wrong to STOP in front of a speeding Big truck. Two wrongs don't make a right. And in this case, who do you suppose would *win*? Right OR wrong.

>>BINGO!
And that's a TWO way street. A person operating a Big truck IS different than a person driving a car. Are automobile drivers aware of the "capabilities" of a Big truck driver?
In my experience, the answer to that is NO, they aren't. And your suggestion that a Big truck driver has time to downshift at over 70 MPH is a good indicator.

>>Armed with that "knowledge", you still elect to use that highway? And when you do, you choose to stop in front of one of those many speeding Big trucks being driven "like the rules don't apply to them"?
What were YOU thinking?
Hmmmmmmmmm

>>One can only hope that's the case. But until then, it's up to ALL of us to AVOID mishaps on the highways. If that means being prepared to take evasive actions, so be it. Seems to be just another fact of life. WATCH OUT! And do what's necessary to avoid collisions.
Safety is NO accident.

Consider this; that Big truck DIDN'T ram into you, did it?
Not to imply what that Big truck did was "safe". But what that Big truck driver actually did to rectify at least ONE mistake, seems to have been the right thing to do, --- at that time and under those circumstances.
Again, I'm NOT CONDONING the previous actions on the part of the Big truck driver.

Big truck drivers are taught to anticipate the actions of other drivers, often referred to as driving their vehicle for them. Not all Big truck drivers follow that rule. As a smaller vehicle sharing the highways with Big trucks, I would think it prudent to incorporate the same attitude of anticipation. It's in YOUR best interest.

Statistics have proven that in over 70% of the Big truck vs automobile crashes, the automobile is at fault. Those are hard statistics to swallow for some folks. And the accident rate per miles driven for Big trucks is superior to those of automobiles.
Imagine that and go figure.

>>Again, congratulations!
And again, with over one million mile markers in my back pocket, I too have no points on my license in the last 30+ years. Not in an automobile or a Big truck. So, I guess I can figure I must be doing SOMEthing right as well.

>>Thanx!
You too!

I hope you don't think I'm condoning what that Big truck behind you did, because I don't. But I also think there may arise a time when YOU, as a driver of an automobile, have certain criteria to employ. If, and when, a situation like you described occurs, be prepared to take evasive action to avoid a disaster. Don't ASSUME a Big truck driver can "downshift" or stop as you might expect. Fact is, unless YOU have experience driving a Big truck, YOU probably don't know or realize what a Big truck driver's "capabilities" are. You can only imagine or assume that you do. And THAT'S a DANGEROUS frame of mind to be in.

Bottom line, and by your own admission, you pulled in front of a speeding Big truck --- and stopped. No matter who was right or who was wrong, YOU would have come out on the bottom had a collision occurred.

When I asked, knowing what you know now, would YOU have done ANYthing differently, I was kinda hoping you'd say, "yes, I wouldn't have pulled in front of a speeding Big truck, and stopped."
Instead, you said you'd have taken a different route.
Whereas that wasn't the answer I had hoped for, it IS another solution. Especially if it's WELL KNOWN that Big trucks regularly speed on the route you decided to take instead of the safer route.

I also hope you don't feel like I'm picking on you, because I'm not. What I'm trying to do is cause you to reflect upon your situation to determine if there would have been a way to AVOID what happened to you.
From your description, the Big truck was totally at fault for speeding and running a red light, after swinging into the left turn lane to avoid hitting YOU.
My thoughts are, under the circumstances the way you described them, that you made a mistake as well. Your mistake wasn't illegal, per se, and under most circumstances would be no big thing. But, if you're telling us that you checked your mirrors and didn't notice that the Big truck you saw back there was comin' on fast, you made a mistake. How many times did you check your mirror? If you'd have checked it TWICE, you SHOULD have noticed how much CLOSER those Big truck headlights were to you in relation to just a few seconds prior. That would indicate the Big truck's speed was far greater than your's.

Decision time. Stay on? Or get off?
*I threw that in because I like Sandra Bullock. Remember her in the movie SPEED? Where she was driving a bus with a bomb on it. And the freeway was comin' to an end. Kinda thought it fit here, .....but I digress.........................

Knowing that a Big truck was approaching from behind at a much greater speed than your's, and coming upon a stale green light to boot, would you STILL elect to pull out in front of it?
I'm thinking you wouldn't.

You see,......... checking your mirrors to know what's back there is only HALF the information you should be in possession of before making a move, like changing lanes. You should ALSO be aware of differences in road speed. That's very important.

If you say you DID, in fact, realize the difference in speed and the stale green light, and STILL elected to make your, otherwise unnecessary, lane change. You made a mistake.

If you DIDN'T realize the speed difference and stale green light. You made a mistake.
Albeit a rather small mistake -- as mistakes go, --MOST of the time, ---- THIS time, it wasn't a small mistake. That's why some crashes are called "accidents".
SOMEtimes an "OOppps" will getcha a horn blowing from other motorists.
And SOMEtimes it'll getcha killed.
I'd rather NOT see either. Especially the latter.

All I ask for you to do, --- OBJECTIVELY --- is THINK about the BIGGER picture here. Is there ANY possibility that what YOU did, was also a mistake? Only YOU can answer that. We weren't there to witness what happened. We only hear your side of the story.

Factoid: In the Big truck trucking industry, we, as drivers, have folks call in about our driving and what we supposedly did that they witnessed. Usually, when a good driver receives these complaints, the complainer's version of what transpired doesn't match the recollections of said driver. And often the recollection is "WHAT?! That person owes their life to me for avoiding running them over!"

Example, During rush hour traffic in the Hollyweird area of California, a woman dressed in a pink flowing dress and driving a Cadillac convertible with the top down --- merging from an on ramp, she proceeds to try to drive under my trailer, moving about 10 or 15 mph, with PLENTY of room in front of me for her to SAFELY merge onto the freeway. I wasn't tailgating. Just moving with the flow of traffic in the far right lane.

If not for the belly boxes under my trailer, she might have been successful. But luckily, she swerved right just in time to avoid impacting ME. It's as though she finally realized I was even there.

She called it in as "I purposely RAN her OFF the road for NO reason"
Imagine that and go figure.

Keeping that in mind, I'm trying to keep an OPEN mind here.
One thing a Big truck driver has is plenty of time to think and observe whiling away the hours. One of the things I liked to do was observe the driving habits of other drivers. Even thought about writing a book based on those many hours of observations.

Doing that has helped me be one of the better Big truck drivers by trying NOT to do that which I observed being done wrong. SOMEtimes, I had to admit I was screwing up too, and adjust for that thereafter. If I WOULDN'T admit my mistakes to MYSELF, how would I EVER become one of the BETTER drivers. And by "better" I include above ALL else, SAFE. SAFE.
Did I mention SAFE?
I know I mentioned that SAFETY is NO accident.

I've had none in OVER 35 years.
I figure I AM doing SOMEthing right.
And THAT was/is my ultimate goal.
Well, that and the truth of any given matter.
What else really matters?

At any rate, I am enjoying our conversation, and thank you for your input. I consider it to be very educational and a should read for those interested in being or becoming the best of the best Big truck drivers, as well as those interested in SAFELY sharing the roads with us.
Yes!
We CAN all get along.

Dialog betwixt Big truck drivers and automobile drivers is a great thing. It helps us understand each other and where we're coming from, and maybe even where we're going. I appreciate that you're concerned enough to "vent" here. There's something to be learned here as a direct result.
Thanx again!:smt039

 

In my opinion, both of you created a near disasterous scene. If he was
speeding, that is unsafe and shouldn't be doing that. And for you, I wouldn't suggest assuming that changing lanes and pulling in front of a semi when you said you knew he was going faster than you. It's easier to just wait that extra 2 seconds and be on the safe side. That's what I do when driving my car. You have to assume that the other guy is not going to yeild to you (90% of the time they won't). In this situation, there's no use in testing the waters to find out, when it comes to your life.

 

>> So you say.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

>>I beg to differ. And I explained how that's accomplished in my previous post.
The correct answer is YES. One CAN judge that person's speed.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

>>Yup!
Unless the said lane change is absolutely necessary, why take the chance? Your description of your lane change sounded more like a lane change for convenience. Granted, there's no law against that.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

>> So you say.
However, I think the most IMPORTANT thing here is
He DIDN'T.
Did he?
Coulda, Woulda, Shoulda.
But DIDN'T.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

>>Also consider, maybe he just didn't care. I don't, in fact, KNOW the fact of what condition his condition was in at the time.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

>>Yup.
Or drugs.
Anger.
The list goes on,...............
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

>>And I agree as well.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

>>And the Big truck behind you didn't/couldn't stop.
Right?
The one that probably wasn't paying attention, ... or was asleep.
Right?
STALE green light.
Right?

At 70 MPH, I sincerely doubt that a Big truck would have ANY gear that a Big truck driver could "down shift" into. Nor would a Big truck driver necessarily have the TIME to do so.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

>>Not necessarily so.
But, he WASN'T driving the speed limit.
Was he?

Big trucks AREN'T like gasoline powered engines in an automobile. Maximum RPM in many Big trucks is 2,100 RPM, and some as low as 1,800 RPM -- not 5,000 RPM, or more, like gasoline powered vehicles. Were you aware of that fact?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

>>I don't know what the "facts" are.
I can only speculate as to the Big truck's driver's condition.
What he/she actually was experiencing, only they know, for sure.

From that I gathered that you had the opportunity to continue through the intersection under a yellow light, rather than stopping in front of a speeding Big truck. Call it an *evasive* action if you will.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~

>>IF YOU CAN!!!
Question is, CAN/SHOULD you run a red light to avoid being rear-ended?
Could be another car, or a Big truck.
Does The Florida Driver's Handbook state statistics as to the number of smaller vehicles that legally change lanes in front of a speeding Big truck, and get squashed as a result of their, otherwise, "legal" action?

Gravestones cheer the living, dear,.........
they're no use to the dead.
*Nitty Gritty Dirt Band*
Buy For Me The Rain.

Not to imply what that Big truck did was "safe". But what that Big truck driver actually did to rectify at least ONE mistake, seems to have been the right thing to do, --- at that time and under those circumstances.
Again, I'm NOT CONDONING the previous actions on the part of the Big truck driver.
~~~~~~~~~~~~

>>Hmmmmmmm
Define "normal".

See, I don't view what you described as being a "normal driving situation."
It's what CAN and DOES happen out there though. But to my knowledge, Big trucks blowing through stoplights is still considered ABnormal.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~

>>I've done nothing of the sort!
I SUGGESTED that MIGHT have been the case.
Exactly HOW you changed lanes in the path of a semi going 70 miles an hour, only YOU know for sure.

Actually, "why" and/or "how" you did that is a moot point. Only that you DID it.
~~~~~~~~~~~~

>>I'm not sure I did.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

>>Did you come here to learn? Or just blame?
Are you willing to see that YOU COULD HAVE possibly prevented what happened just as well as the Big truck driver could have? But neither one of you apparently did that.
Did you?

Here's what the Department Of Transportation (D.O.T.), which reviews Big truck crashes says about "accidents":
"ALL ACCIDENTS ARE PREVENTABLE."

Yup!
A L L !
D.O.T. PREVENTABLE ACCIDENTS.
Even when it was CLEARLY the other vehicle that was at fault.
Repeat: EVEN WHEN IT WAS THE OTHER VEHICLE"S FAULT. Or, rather the DRIVER of said vehicle, a Big truck CAN, and very often IS, charged with a preventable accident.
And that COULD end their Big truck driving career.
MOST drivers, I suspect, aren't anxious for that to happen.
And the paperwork that follows!
And the drug/alcohol tests.
Good Grief!
It's worth avoiding incidents just to avoid the paperwork involved post "accident".

ANYtime a Big truck driver is involved in ANY incident, the review board usually reaches that conclusion. "PREVENTABLE". Over 90% of the time, as I redcall. And they just might be right. Big truck drivers have to account for their actions, and they DO, one way or the other. Automobile drivers, I think, should be held to an equally stringent set of standards. And taught HOW to share the highways with Big trucks as part of their driving lessons.

If "accidents" are "preventable" for Big trucks, and they ARE --- by golly, it stands to reason that would/should apply to the general motoring public as well, with the same results.
Crash PREVENTION.
Would you agree with that?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

>>Too true.
Thank God nobody was killed or injured.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[/quote]I suppose that would of been their fault as well?[/quote]

>>Now I know you're pulling my leg.
I don't really think our conversation is about "fault" so much as it is making a MISTAKE. Under the circumstances.
And preventing making mistakes.
As well as two wrongs don't make a right.

However, to remain stopped at a red light when a Big truck CAN'T stop, and you're in the same lane, --- by golly, I think the better choice would be to run the red light rather than have a Big truck slam into you at a high rate of speed. Again, call it an *evasive* action if you will. IMO, that would have been a wiser choice. I doubt that would be considered an illegal maneuver under the circumstances.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~

>>Yes you did. Several times.
Coulda been.
But I'm guessing not drunk. If he were drunk, I question whether he could have maneuvered the truck around you like you described. Believe me, it was an "E" coupon ride for that Big truck driver.
But, you might be correct.
And you're making my point.
YOU didn't know what condition his condition was in,.......
Either.
Did you?
~~~~~~~~~~~~

>>Now, that's an assumption on your part. A truck driver stone sober, and in a big hurry, could be described in the same way. And could just as easily have found it impossible to stop.

If you're looking for "logic",.......... "Logically" it isn't wise to STOP in front of a speeding Big truck. Where's the "logic" in that?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~

>>There's also a law that states that a motorist CAN be found at fault IF they had the LAST CLEAR CHANCE to AVOID an incident.
Look it up.
Are you saying you WOULDN'T run a red light, even if it COULD mean the difference between (your) life and (your) death? Or at least your well being?
How about others?
How about your passenger that night? Which do you reckon he'd choose to do? Run it or get rammed from behind by a speeding Big truck?
Hail!
For all YOU knew, that Big truck driver mighta had a heart attack while driving and wasn't even conscious.
Did you consider that prior to your lane change?
And stop?

And while we're on the subject of "credentials", and I'm glad you brought that up, ....s a result of my attendance of several DEFENSIVE DRIVING courses,........I LEARNED that DEFENSIVE DRIVING isn't so much designed to teach a driver how to get OUT of a bad situation, it teaches a driver how to AVOID a bad situation all together.
Big difference.
And MY personal favorite.

Have YOU attended a DEFENSIVE DRIVING course?
They're VERY educational.
And could save your life. As well as other's lives.

It's a course I recommend EVERYone take periodically.
Very eye-opening. Especially when you recognize your own mistakes, and learn how to correct them.

A person operating a Big truck IS different than a person driving a car. Are automobile drivers aware of the "capabilities" of a Big truck driver?
In my experience, the answer to that is NO, they aren't. And your suggestion that a Big truck driver has time to downshift at over 70 MPH is a good indicator.
~~~~~~~~~~

>>But WAS he?
Regardless of his coherency, he DIDN'T slow down.
Did he?
This is no lol matter.
~~~~~~~~~~

>>Which "people"?
The Big truck drivers or the general motoring public?
Again, you assume when you speculate that it's "not rocket science".
Believe me, from the caliber of Big truck drivers I've been noticing out there lately, it just might BE rocket science for some.

One can only hope that's the case. But until then, it's up to ALL of us to AVOID mishaps on the highways. If that means being prepared to take evasive actions, so be it. Seems to be just another fact of life. WATCH OUT! And do what's necessary to avoid collisions.
Safety is NO accident.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

>>YUP!
Absolutely!
That's correct.
(Have I mentioned what SEEMS a safe distance, may not BE safe?)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

>>You're pulling my leg again, ain'tcha?
Well, that COULD be true. All depends.
Are you really all that concerned with who was at "FAULT"??
You could be TOTALLY NOT AT FAULT, and still wind up dead, or injured.
Why take the chance?
Is it REALLY worth it?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

>>Think about it.

Not to imply what that Big truck did was "safe". But what that Big truck driver actually did to rectify at least ONE mistake, seems to have been the right thing to do, --- at that time and under those circumstances.

He/She DIDN'T ram into you.
That's a fact.
Right?
Whomever was driving that Big truck, did SOMEthing right to prevent that from happening. Albeit, it was their neglect in the first place that got the ball rolling. Nonetheless, a collision WAS avoided through the actions of the driver in the wrong, finally doing something right --- by steering around you, rather than climbing on the binders and skidding into you.

Again, I'm NOT CONDONING the previous actions on the part of the Big truck driver. Just pointing out what MIGHT have been.
And hope you can realize how close you probably came to being involved physically.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

>>I don't recall answering that question. Rather I think I left it up to YOUR common sense to decide. Or research it.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Thanx!
And I PROMISE not to speed behind you. Or in front of you.
Please understand, it's YOUR safety and well being that is of MOST concern to me. I wouldn't want you to be involved in any incident, especially with a Big truck.
NObody wins when that happens.

As a driver of Big trucks, I have personally witnessed and assisted at the scenes of horrific crashes. It ain't a pretty sight and it can affect me for days, weeks, even longer, afterwards. I do it because I'm there, and nobody else is, or wants to be. I don't like it, but I do it when necessary. If for no other reason than it's the right thing to do.
IMO

The more I see of them, the harder it is to see more of them. But that's part of the job called Big Truckin'.
Sometime, all one can do is offer a prayer.

And to realize most of them COULD HAVE been prevented or avoided, makes it an even more bitter pill to swallow.

My hope is the YOU don't become another statistic.
I can't prevent that,...............except to drive safely,............
but YOU can.
BY driving MORE safely.
Can one EVER be TOO safe?

Just think about it.
Okay?

 

Boy I'm gonna need to reread that but thank gosh I'm overly cautious when driving. I always listen to my gut instinct: when in doubt don't do it.

Same goes for a night on the town or drinks with dinner......I always take a driver, usually my daughter, with me who 'WILL NOT DRINK' and then attempt to half-arsed drive me home. Safety is always first, not only for myself and those I have in my car but also for those around me.

I've never had an accident and only a couple tickets, one which I beat in court, the other was a seat belt deal. I don't plan on having any either.

 

In case you didn't know Aftershock, it's great that you stop at an accident if you happen to be there, but it's also the law. If a truck driver is first on scene of an accident it is the law for him or her to stop and secure the area, call authorities etc... until they arrive. I think it's in the 390's section of the FMCSR.

 

Just curious, is it also law for a car, a motorcycle, or any other vehicle to stop if they are the first one at the scene of an accident?

 

No, it's applied to commercial drivers only.

 

Just call me DOCTOR DRIVER.
Or, Nurse Driver.

There's pre-trips, post-trips, preventative maintenance, and now, people maintenance.
When is there time left for golf?

Don't forget the law about Big truck drivers having to have WHITE sheets on their bunks.
Supposedly for bandages, if needed, at an accident scene.

As for me, if I'm bleeding badly, I'd even accept paisley bandages.
I'm sure not gonna demand white bandages, the latest fashion color or none at all. I'll take whatever they have.