Question On air Conditioner system older truck

Discussion in 'Trucks [ Eighteen Wheelers ]' started by johnj7l, Jul 7, 2012.

  1. johnj7l

    johnj7l Bobtail Member

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    Sep 28, 2008
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    I have a older international dump truck, that has the old R-12 air conditioner system on it, I know how to do the change over basically but I dont understand 3 things if someone can help?


    1) When I add the first can of pag oil to the system before I add cans of r-134a what viscosity should I use I seen the local parts stores sells Low (46), medium (100) and high (150) viscosity cans of pag oil should I be adding pag oil at all?


    2) What is the difference between pag oil and ester oil in the larger can?


    3) What should my gauges read on the low and high side ....should be reading when I load it so I dont under load it or overload it?
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2012
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  3. bender

    bender Road Train Member

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    In the past we used pag 100 but no longer use pag at all due to being corrosive to internals and absorbing moisture. I would use nothing but polymax2 oil in any system no matter the refrigerant. Don't accept what they offer on the shelf, ask for it or move on until you find it.

    I would pull the compressor, cap the lines, drain the oil, Acquire a dipstick for york compressors. Any IH dealer should have one. Fill compressor with poly2 oil using the dipstick for proper oil level, install the compressor, evacuate and charge the system with the same amount of 134a as r12 was used before, in the neighborhood of 3.2-3.4 lbs. Your gage readings will vary depending on if you have cleaned evap, changed filter and cleaned condenser.

    P.S It wouln't hurt to change the dryer while you have the system open.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2012
  4. Semi Crazy

    Semi Crazy Road Train Member

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    My F-liner manual says figure 2 oz. of oil will hang in each component meaning the condenser will have 2 oz, the evap will have 2, the dryer will have 2 but you will use a new one so forget that.

    I'm pretty sure I remember that right. Too lazy to look right now.
     
  5. Gear head

    Gear head Medium Load Member

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    . You can use ester oil easy to find. If its a cci or climitech take off dump oil out these compressors have crankcase. That should get at least half oil capacity then fill compressor with about 10oz of ester. Ester is more tolerant to mineral oil. Vacuum system for 30 min. Then charge 80% of what the r12 weight is supposed to be probably around 3 lbs. So charge about 2lbs 8oz. Or until lowside begins to swet. Pressures are hard to say depending on ambient temp outside.
     
  6. johnj7l

    johnj7l Bobtail Member

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    Sep 28, 2008
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    the previous owner told me he had the pump off few years ago and changed the oil so I was wondering cant I just change the receiver/dryer then vacuum it and reload the system with 6-8 ounces of ester /134a in the can right into the low side port then follow with r134a ?
     
  7. Gear head

    Gear head Medium Load Member

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    Yes if the oil has been removed you can do that
     
  8. johnj7l

    johnj7l Bobtail Member

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    Sep 28, 2008
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    OK here is what I am dealing with and maybe someone can give some insight on what to look for or what to do with this air conditioner system

    Older 1985 International Truck, was a r-12 system that someone supposedly removed the older oil and changed over to newer R-134a

    so here is what I did, when I started this the truck air conditioner compressor would cycle but no cold air, at one time there was cold air but that was last year.

    Now to today, I removed the old rusted out receiver /dryer and replaced it with a new one and replaced 1 new line that was bad and rusted. Before installing the new line and receiver/ dryer I removed the lines off the compressor and flushed the condenser and and the evaporator with a flushing agent for air conditioner systems, the blew all lines out with air until nothing was coming out . installed the new line, receiver/dryer, new o rings, and re-installed the lines on the air conditioner pump with new o rings. then vacuumed the entire system, low and high side for 45 minutes. Watched it for 5 minutes after to insure it maintained negative pressure before starting to load it.

    I started with a 6 oz can of ester oil and r-134a and noticed the pressure with the unit running shot right up low side 35 psi ,high side stayed low , pump would not engage. Added another 6 oz can of the ester oil with 134a and unit running but pump still would not engage, for some reason I was not getting power to the compressor unit? so I added 12 volt power to engage the pump manually while running to see if the unit would load any r-134a, the low side seemed as if it did not want to take the 134a, and noticed the pressure on the low side going to 80 lbs while the high side stayed all the way down to about 20 lbs?



    What would stop the power from getting to the compressor ? why is the pressure not correct? what turns the pump power on and off? I didn't see a expansion valve or orifice tube where is that hiding and could these cause the problems? I dont knwo why it would cycle before I did this stuff? and ideas I m showing some pictures , may be I can get a little help, thanks

    air 001.jpg air 003.jpg air 006.jpg air 008.jpg
     
  9. Heavyd

    Heavyd Road Train Member

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    Not sure due to the retrofit, but most Internationals with a CCI type compressor, (like yours) had a charge of 3.5 to 4 lbs depending on the model. What are these cans you are adding? I have never used the cans, just a machine. Are those cans only 6oz of refrigerant with some oil mixed in? So if you only added 2 6oz cans you're way undercharged at this time. Not sure about your model year, but newer stuff has a low pressure switch, so if the pressure is too low due to a low charge the compressor will not come on. Basically your power flow to the compressor will go something like this, power to the compressor clutch will go through a freeze switch in the evaporator, through a low pressure switch, and high pressure switch, from the a/c controls, not necessarily in that order. I don't have diagrams for your year, but late 90's were using relays, but same principal. As long as power is getting through the pressure switches and freeze switches your system should run. Don't forget the fuses either. Sounds like your system doesn't have a leak. Your pressure readings show the compressor isn't moving anything when you apply 12 volts to it. Are you sure about the gauge readings? Sometimes the expansion valve is on the verge of getting stuck and will cause issues like this. Then once you open the system and the pressure is zero the needle valve will seat and get stuck and that's it! With a stuck expansion valve, once the compressor runs the low side drops to near zero and the high side is high since the expansion valve is stuck closed. Your case almost sounds like the compressor will not pump and the expansion valve is stuck. Did you put anything else in this system, like maybe an a/c leak repair kit?
     
  10. johnj7l

    johnj7l Bobtail Member

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    No ac repair kit, I added a total of the 2 - 6 oz cans of ester oil with r-134a and a full 16 oz can of 134-a but stopped cause the low side pressure is way to high while the high side stayed low and the system would not turn on, when I turned it on manually with power ,It still maintained a high pressure on the low side.. I need to locate the expansion valve, I think it may be inside under the dash at the firewall but noyt sure yet.. have a feeling it may be blocked or closed and maybe that's why its not sending power to the unit.
     
  11. Heavyd

    Heavyd Road Train Member

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    I think you are right about it being near the fire wall, sorry those ol' girls are from before my time! If your low side has all the pressure and you jump power to the compressor it should suck from the low side and pump it all to the high side even if the expansion valve is stuck. For some reason the compressor can't suck from the low side. Are you measuring the high side at the receiver/drier?
     
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