30 min break for HoS question

They changed that. Now you can be in either seat and log off duty as long as you aren't working. I don't know if that applies to a codriver in the right seat while you're driving though, probably not.

 

For up to two hours, either preceding or following eight consecutive hours in the bunk.

 

We were provided a print out about the new HOS rules, from the KMCA (Kansas Motor Carrier's Association), which is an affiliate of the great ATA<---

Here are 2 paragraphs from that document, that is confusing;

Now why this is more confusing to me, comes from my LEO background. When dealing with laws, or regulations, little things, wording makes a huge difference. The usage of a such little words like, "an" or "the" have historically proved to change the entire scope of a law. So in the above document when they say the driver must be relieved of all vehicle responsibility, means that we can walk away from it and the load. If not, then we must be considered on-duty. So remaining in the vehicle, in my opinion, is not being relieved of all responsibility. Remaining in it, the driver must still feel some degree of responsibility. So for the FMCSA to tell us we can remain in it and be off duty, but yet doing so while loading or unloading is on-duty is contradictory, is it not? I bring this up because this is where all the little LEOs, DOTs running around will start snagging us. Yes, there must be some way for them to prove or know that we were or were not loading/unloading. This can be done through the time stamps on BOLs or scale tickets, comparing them to your log book entry. For me it's not that easy on the unloading side, as most of the time I do not scale at the receiving end. The receiver just signs the BOLs.

Example today I dumped at a construction site. It took some time before I could dump. They had to blade out a level area. I stood and talked to the superintendent while this was happening. I took advantage of this, logging my mandatory 30 min break. This was followed by logging on-duty to dump. It was also advantageous to me because it just so happened to occur during my 6th hour of my 14 on duty. Technically I was still waiting to unload, so should have been on line 4.

Anyway back to the above document, my dispatcher tells me while both of us are looking at that document that it's ok to log the 30 min break while waiting to load or unload, yet the very next paragraph says no. I tried explaining that to him, but it's not what he wanted to hear, so it falls on deaf ears, and there's no reasoning with those. Basically what I'm saying is that for those that have to deal with real picky, arse-hole DOTs, be prepared. Back when I was LEO if there was someone that needed to be held to task, ie; nailed, I would use this little things written in the laws. There was no escaping, no getting around them. People will dig themselves further into a hole once this road is embarked. Be smart, don't say anything more than is absolutely necessary. Taking a break, picking my nose, my seat, counting the bug smears on my windshield, watching the nice ladies walk by.. you get what I'm saying. The 30 min break is not a big deal, but it is a snare that they will use.

 

This is too stupid. Up til just over a year when the rules stated you were pretty much supposed to be on-duty any time you were in the truck and not driving nor in the bunk companies would say just show 15 minutes on-duty and the rest off-duty. Now they change the rule back in Feb 2012 to where it says 'ANY time resting' in a parked CMV can be logged off-duty and companies are going crazy making their drivers log it all on-duty. What gives? All of sudden they like the old definition?

[TABLE="class: TableFMCSA1, align: center"]
[TR]
[TH="class: LeftTableHeadFMCSA, align: center"]PROVISION[/TH]
[TH="class: LeftTableHeadFMCSA, align: center"]PRIOR RULE[/TH]
[TH="class: LeftTableHeadFMCSA, width: 47%, align: center"]UPDATED RULE – COMPLIANCE DATE
FEBRUARY 27, 2012[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH="class: MiddleTDFMCSA1"] On-duty time [/TH]
[TD="class: MiddleTDFMCSA1"] Includes any time in CMV except sleeper-berth. [/TD]
[TD="class: MiddleTDFMCSA1"] Does not include any time resting in a parked vehicle (also applies to passenger- carrying drivers). In a moving property-carrying CMV, does not include up to 2 hours in passenger seat immediately before or after 8 consecutive hours in sleeper-berth. [/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

I think the companies are failing to give them the documentation that releases them.

 

Documentation that "must have been made known to the driver prior to the driver’s departure in written instructions from the employer."

But "There are no record retention requirements for these instructions on board a vehicle or at a motor carrier’s principal place of business."

http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regu...fmcsr/fmcsrruletext.aspx?reg=395.2&guidence=Y

 

I carry it in the truck. It has been asked for before. I suspect you will be seeing requests more in the future.

Without the form, the dot officer has no proof you were relieved of responsibility. So, they can issue the ticket.

 

Do they have proof you WEREN'T relieved of responsibility ?

 

Do they need it?

 

I see nothing requiring proof either way . No written documentation required on file . I was never asked for it . I logged off duty every time I was told I couldn't stay with the truck while unloading . It was never questioned .