Adjusting Brakes

How else, if I don't get under the truck and check my slack adjusters, can I tell if the brakes work correctly or not, are adjusting correctly or not??

I mean, that's at the heart of my job, to know my brakes work okay. I can't do it from the cab alone. If there's no click when I back off from tight against the drum, the pawls are worn and that slack needs to be replaced. It's also an opportunity to look for other problems, like cracks in the drums and the thickness and condition of the shoes, and that they are free of grease, for example. To look for chafing air lines. Listen for audible leaks.

If you drive the same truck every day, you're not crawling under the truck daily. I part-time and slip-seat the truck. I don't know who drove it or where or how far. If there is a wreck, knock on wood, I want to know that my brakes were, IMO, up-to-snuff when I left the yard.

Anything less is negligence.

Someone's life may depend on it. Mine. Or your family on the road near me.

 

Victor, Not sure if you were addressing that to me, being the previous poster, or the OP?

I fully agree (except the part about putting a wrench on the self-adjuster slack adj.)
I'm not saying to not do a complete pre-trip or not closely inspect brake parts, suspension parts, etc. I used to drive the same tractor every day and always gave a close inspection of every item, and DID crawl under the truck/trailer every day.

My point is you are supposed to check your slack (and brake pushrod travel) daily, but in the case of automatic self-adjusters, they should never be adjusted with a wrench, by the driver. If they have excess slack after sufficient full brake applications, then that slack adjuster is defective, or it indicates a serious brake problem in another area.

I have several documents from the mouths of FMCSA, DOT, and NTSB that specifically say that attempting to adjust any self-adjusting slack adjuster is wrong.
Here is one article I had bookmarked, on hand.

NTSB: Don’t manually adjust automatic slack adjusters

I'll try to dig up the same info I had from DOT and FMCSA.

 

I'm aware of the school of thought that says don't adjust automatic slack adjusters. Mechanics do it all the time and should only do so to see that a slack clicks properly. Until there is a light that goes on in the cab to tell me that a slack adjuster has gone bad, I'm checking with a wrench. If it doesn't click, the pawls are worn.

Here's some further info from STexan's IdeaLease PDF:

You can find STexan's IdeaLease PDF (msg #3, this thread) here: http://www.idealease-abetterway.com/safetycompliance/04_22_2011.pdf

Here's a video that says NOT to adjust automatic slack adjusters:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnGi_lqueo0

I'll continue doing what I do. It's okay with me if we disagree on this. Not a problem. I don't figure either of us is 'wrong'. I found a bad slack on my last pre-trip. Had I not put a wrench to it, I would not have known.

 

As far as a dash light to tell you when an automatic self-adjuster has gone bad, I've already explained how exactly to tell.
1. Chock wheels, Release all brakes, pull on slack adjuster and check free play/slack.
2. If slack is beyond limits, apply 10 full brake applications.
3. Repeat step 1.
4. If slack is still excessive, repeat step 2.
5. Repeat step 1 and if slack is still beyond limits, you have a defective slack adjuster (or other defective brake parts).

Either way, the vehicle is then out of service (OOS).

Nothing in STexas's IdeaLease pdf says anything to the contrary of what I stated.
You are confusing "adjust the brakes" to mean "only with a wrench". They are to be adjusted with full brake application only.
Continue to do it "your" way, even tho NTSB, DOT, and FMCSA say it's wrong.
BTW, I hope you don't learn the hard way, by way of accident.

 

stop and think about it KW.

if you have to put a wrench on a automatic then the automatic isn't working. and needs to be replaced.

well, that's an obvious right there.

so, what are you going to do???? #1. continue driving with brakes out of adjustment. #2. sit and wait for road service. #3. adjust them babies and drive.

i know which one I'M gonna do.

as for getting in a wreck. well, i won't be blamed for brakes. because they are adjusted. if you adjust your brakes. your brakes wont be out of adjustment. wreck or no wreck.

i don't know how you guys come up with this theory about being in a wreck for having properly adjusted brakes. if you adjust your brakes. they WON'T be out of adjustment. like you all think they will.

dot inspects your rig. when looking at your brakes. they look for brake travel. you have over 2 inches. your OOS.

keep your brakes adjusted. you won't have 2 inches. you won't be OOS. and dot will never know your slacks aren't working properly.

i've never been asked. driver, did you adjust your brakes. all they care, is that you DON'T have 2 inches of travel.

YOU know the slacks aren't working. and it's up to YOU to keep that adjustment.

your choices are #1 #2 or #3. me personally, i'm going with #3. till i can get the things replaced.

your chances of being in a wreck with out of adjusted brakes are a million times greater then having adjusted brakes.

BUT, if by some chance i were to be in a wreck. it WON'T be from loose breaks. which means i WON'T be blamed for loose brakes.

properly adjust brakes will SAVE your hide. not bruise it. and if i have to take out the wrench. then so be it.

back in the old days. automatics didn't exist. you needed a wrench. it was mandatory. just because we have automatics today. doeosn't mean the wrench is no longer needed.

 

WOW, all this for a simple slack adjuster. Yup! I adjust my own. Always take a box-end and a small ball peen (SP, don't want to stir up the Spelling Police or anyone who swallowed a dictionary this morning.) hammer along. It saved me from getting an inspection in KS one time. I was coming S out of Dodge City on 283 and a N Bound said a bear had just finished an inspection about 2 miles ahead. I pulled over a ta wide spot and got my tools out and crawled under the trailer. He came up, stopped and said, "Everything Ok?" and I said Yes so he went on up the road and stopped another truck that just turned out of another road and went N. My logs were at least 8 hrs over.

 

Stop and Think about it, snowwy.

If that automatic slack adjuster won't stay adjusted after proper full brake applications,
then it will not stay adjusted by adjusting it manually (the same internal parts turn it, adjust it, and hold it)

So you are really only fooling yourself, plus it's a strong possibility the slack is a symptom of a different, yet associated part, in the brake system.
A shade tree mechanic will change a worn tire or part.
But a TRUE mechanic will first determine what caused it to fail or be defective.
Typically that leads to other associated parts.

That is exactly why FMCSA, DOT, and the NTSB has said that manually adjusting self-adjusting brakes is not only wrong, but dangerous.
It gives one a false sense that they "corrected the problem".

As for your last 3 sentences:
MY chance of being in a wreck with out of adjusted brakes is 0. (I won't drive it in that condition).
YOU WILL BE liable, because those brakes that you got all snugged up 7 miles down the road, are now loose as a goose after your first hard braking. (the setting won't hold, that's why they had slack in the first place).
But if you're smarter than mechanical experts, DOT, NTSB, etc, who have publicly warned you, then be my guest and keep fooling yourself with performing a non-recommended wrench turning on a part that has already shown it will not hold that adjustment.

BTW, It seems you changed your tune a bit from post #35.
You made no mention of it being obvious that the slack adjuster was defective. You told the OP to wrench it, as if nothing were even unusual.
Plus the fact that you say to snug lining to the drum, to the point the slack adjuster won't turn anymore.
This is so wrong. Way too tight. A self adjuster, adjusted automatically, accounts for, and leaves a proper minimum lining to drum clearance.

 

Not all automatic slack adjusters use stroke-sensitive adjustments. Gunite claims their slack adjusters adjust in the first 10 psi and therefore avoid some of the problem with stroke-sensitive adjustments that requires such high psi.

KW is right, though. I have only been wrenching when I should have measured, too. I haven't been measuring, altho I have in the past. I'm willing to measure first and I appreciate KW pointing out how to measure and adjust (if stroke sensitive adjuster).

Then I'll wrench as needed and as often as needed until I can let a shop have at it. : 0)

I paid CVSA $65 for their online air brake course and then never finished it. Probably expired by now. Maybe, just maybe, I should complete it... cough, cough.

 

These Cajuns are definitely a dangerous breed.

KW said:

Ugh! Okay, KW. What part of maybe you're right after all do you not understand?????


/Takes me a while to get all the pieces and edits together. I'll withhold final bows and deference to KW's 'apparent' superior knowledge until I do some measuring and see if it alters my 'strongly-held' opinion. Cough, cough.

/My idea of a tragedy is a good theory killed by a fact. Pow!

 

That's true about the Gunite's. In fact I wish they would all adjust without being stroke-sensitive.
The longer stroke needed for them to adjust doesn't come unless you nearly have full brake force.
Thankfully we don't have to be moving to do this!!

But this is the primary cause that drivers run with too much slack (they don't park & do the full applications often enuf, or at all)
Sometimes I do get "headstrong" on explaining/demonstrating my point, but I don't hold it against anyone, if they choose another way.

Kinda funny how any 1 subject here on TTR will draw such a wide variety of opposite opinions and opposite "facts".
It breaks boredom, for sure.