Will Wage and Hour Rumbles... Affect You?

gpsman · Nov 3, 2014

Just keep those cheeks apart and keep driving. Any effort to obtain better compensation is communism.

G/MAN · Nov 3, 2014

Victor_V said: ↑

G/MAN, doesn't help a lot to tell drivers they don't deserve to get paid for their time. The point of the thread, and I'm the OP, is that there's been a ground shift since the ruling on Westberry v Interstate Distributor up in Washington State and Quezada v Con-way in California which is set for a settlement size-able enough to require a $457-million cash-on-hand billion dollar transportation company to report the upcoming settlement on its 10-Q.

The thread's not a debate about paying drivers for their time. The ground's shifting and I'm asking drivers--not company owners--not fleets--not driver managers--whether this will affect them.

I respect your opinion and your well-stated (and familiar) views on drivers and driver pay.

But I think you've had your say in this thread.

Please move on. End the tit-for-tat. Please.
Click to expand...

I never said that drivers do not deserve to be paid for their time. I am also a driver, along with owning a company. I don't like sitting, either. I also don't like sitting and not being compensated. But, this ruling won't effect me, at least in the near term. When you address me or something I have said, I will respond. I am sorry you don't like having someone post that has a different point of view.

Surfer Joe · Nov 3, 2014

G/MAN said: ↑

Drivers do have rights. We are not second class citizens. If you treat others with respect, you will be respected. For years I have heard about how poorly California treats drivers. I have been inspected and dealt with California and have always been shown respect. I have also been inspected and stopped in Ohio, Pennsylvania and other states and with rare exceptions, have been respected. But, I have also been respectful of them. If you show an attitude it will be given back to you just as if you show respect and it will be given to you. It is time to be honest about attitudes and respect. Many drivers don't even respect themselves. They look like slobs. The don't take care of themselves and all they do is complain. Yet, they do nothing to improve themselves or their surroundings. You cannot control others or what they do. But, you can control what you say and what you put in your mouth. Things are not perfect in this industry. But, things could be a lot worse. I have always been of the opinion that if I don't like the way things are then I work to change them. Ask yourself, "What can I do to improve my image or that of the trucking industry?" "What can I do to earn more respect?" Respect is earned. It is our fellow drivers who have been responsible for changing attitudes toward drivers. We need to place blame where it belongs. When was the last time you challenged a driver for leaving a urine bottle or trash next to his truck rather than walking 100 feet to use the trash can? It should not even be necessary, but that is the problem with respect. You can't blame the carriers or the general public for their lack of respect. When drivers cuss out their dispatchers for something that they cannot control, they are costing all of us respect. Disrespect feeds on itself. The next driver may receive disrespect from the dispatcher you just cussed out. Think before you speak.
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Let this be a lesson to all drivers out there:
According to the above poster, we are mainly a bunch of dirty slobs, basically responsible for everything that happens to us. Even to the point of getting the shaft in regards to our salaries.
So clean up, guys! Take a bath! Use the pissoir's! Wear underwear and matching socks! Throw out that filthy loincloth!
After all, those large carriers can't wait to treat you more fairly just as soon as you clean up your act.

Surfer Joe · Nov 3, 2014

G/MAN said: ↑

From the drivers I have seen, there is no danger of them going hungry. If drivers families suffer from lack of income, they need to learn how to manage their money. I have always been able to save money in this business and lived comfortably. If you live beyond your means, then your family will suffer. What you do for a living is not the issue.

As far as respect is concerned, that sits squarely on the backs of some drivers. Until about 15 or so years ago, drivers were well respected. It is some drivers, not all, who have cost drivers respect. Just look at how some look. They weigh 400 pounds and you still see them buying a big bag of chips at the truck stop and park at the nearest parking spot. After the trucks leave the truck stop, the lot is full of urine bottles. Fortunately, some of us still conduct ourselves and treat others with respect and it is reciprocated. You cannot blame carriers or the employers for drivers not being respected. All respect is not lost. Many people still respect drivers.

Driver pay is not necessarily the reason for turnover in the industry, contrary to popular belief. However, there are some drivers who will leave one company and go to another for a penny per mile more pay, only to find out that he isn't necessarily making more money. There are other factors which effect driver turnover that have nothing to do with the pay. An example is home time. Personally, I think the number one reason for driver turnover is lack of communication between drivers and the company. Regardless of industry, all companies have turnover.

I know you think that unions will solve all your problems in trucking. It won't. It will only create different problems. The Teamsters started to lose members after they shut down the country (for the most part) back in 1980(?). There were actually two instances where they tried to stop freight from moving. They did have an impact. Those who kept running took a chance of a hitting a cinder block dangling from an overpass, rocks thrown through the windshield or being shot at by union supporters or members. After that, it was the government that got involved and tried to reduce union influence in this industry. Deregulation allowed rates to be set by the market forces than fixed by published tariffs, creating price competition in the marketplace. It also alleviated some of the union influence. Even in their heyday, Teamsters only had a small percentage of otr drivers as members. Today, they have lost most of their influence. Walmart drivers who were involved in the lawsuit in California, have shot themselves in the foot and don't yet understand it. All of this is about greed. Those poor Walmart drivers were only making $87,000+/year. How can they get by on such a pittance?
Click to expand...

Get your story straight here:
In the early eighties, Pres. Reagan continued (preceded by Pres. Carter) breaking up the unions (remember the air traffic controllers?) with his corporate backed policies. He and his cronies declared war against the unions; reason being that the top dawgs in upper management wanted all that union influenced labor money for themselves. And they got it. Period.
I know, cause' I was there.
Amazing coincidence; since the late seventies, when unions represented over 60% of total US labor, to now with unions representing less than 4% of the total labor force, the middle class has been virtually wiped out. Kaput.
Look around, almost everybody is broke. And working; a lot, with little to show. Anybody under 30 now doesn't even have a chance.
Are unions perfect and wonderful?
Absolutely not..but;
Organized workers standing and working together, while being in basic agreement on a few important issues (better pay, better conditions) is the only solution to create any improvements; which is the basic constitution of any worker's union.
If any body is employed by any company, then everything boils down to two sides, really; total corporate tyranny or collective bargaining induced labor laws.
Until something better materializes, I know what side I have chosen.

Victor_V · Nov 3, 2014

Thread's not about unions, either. Con-way didn't think enough about 4 terminals voting union to mention it in the 10-Q but devoted 2 long paragraphs to this upcoming California settlement.

Unions didn't do this. The US District Court of California, Northern District has final say and is expected on Jan 9, 2015 to finalize a walloping Con-way settlement. It's based on changes in California law and applies retroactively, that distinguishes piece-rate-pay from non-piece work and requires payment for all non-piece work. See: http://www.wga.com/magazine/2014/06/01/piece-rate-consternation

ezover · Nov 3, 2014

G/MAN said: ↑

Truck drivers have been exempt from labor laws since the beginning. California is known for over stepping their legal authority. They should not be able to control labor rates for interstate carriers, especially those NOT headquartered in California.

There is a misconception that carriers are not paying drivers and the carrier is being compensated. Most carriers pay drivers for detention or sitting as long as the shipper pays them. I thought the Washington lawsuit was won by the drivers. Apparently, it is the company that won. I would not expect carriers to pay drivers to load or unload unless they are compensated by shippers. Profit margins are already tight. If carriers are forced to pay drivers to sit, you can expect these companies to lower mileage pay to offset the additional costs.

Carriers are not the bad guys and drivers are not victims. That is the way they are portrayed. Drivers know how they will be compensated when they accept a job offer from a carrier. With lawsuits such as these, the drivers decide after accepting and working for several years, that they need to change the contract. Shipper do waste drivers time. If things are to change, it is the shippers who must pay for their time. When drivers are sitting, it is not just the driver who is not making money. It costs the carrier money for their truck to sit. Rather than going after the carriers, they should be going to the source, the shippers.
Click to expand...

you could not be more wrong, i work for xyz company as an EMPLOYEE, it matters to me not if they get paid, that is the risk they take. if i am in their employ during work that they require, they are respsponible to pay me, not the receiver, not the shipper.

CargoWahgo · Nov 3, 2014

Victor_V said: ↑

Thread's not about unions, either. Con-way didn't think enough about 4 terminals voting union to mention it in the 10-Q but devoted 2 long paragraphs to this upcoming California settlement.

Unions didn't do this. The US District Court of California, Northern District has final say and is expected on Jan 9, 2015 to finalize a walloping Con-way settlement. It's based on changes in California law and applies retroactively, that distinguishes piece-rate-pay from non-piece work and requires payment for all non-piece work. See: http://www.wga.com/magazine/2014/06/01/piece-rate-consternation
Click to expand...

You can't stop these guys from bickering they've done started xD

Anyway hope
Ice and water machine is in the paper for the compton freight yard.

Meanwhile you got LA doing their group stretchy squats ....more of a dip motion.... But hey! Get those ice machines!!!!

Maybe theyll have to sell the doorknobs to the bathroom after all said and done.

Freight needs a kick in the ### maybe it will send a message to the truckload president hagen daz.

Highly doubtful....but you never know.

rockee · Nov 3, 2014

Here's a fly in the soup for you all. I'm not going to go look for all the particulars but if you want to search for Bostain v. Food Express, Inc, (no. 77201-1), that will enlighten some of you.

Victor_V · Nov 3, 2014

Ha ha. Not so sure about that!

The Bostain case is a doozy and Westberry, a Georgia resident, tried to rely on it to no avail. Gets into the plumbing of the Westberry case, too. Bostain drove out of Vancouver, Washington for Food Express of Arcadia, California. After he was fired for insubordination, sued under the WMA (Washington State Minimum Wage Act), which said that all hours a Washington resident works over 40 hours must be compensated with overtime even if the work was performed out of the State.

There's a lengthy analysis of Bostain here (Transportation Journal): http://www.hollandhart.com/articles/GoingOverboardOnOvertime.pdf

The article concludes:

"The court in Bostain attempted to do the citizens of its state a service by faithfully interpreting an overtime wage statute. The courts decision was favorable for Mr. Bostain, but not so for Food Express. Unfortunately, because of the disastrous implications of the holding, Mr. Bostain may be the only Washington-based interstate truck driver to ever so benefit."
Click to expand...

Bostain was called the death-knell for interstate freight in Washington State.

The question my thread presents is whether the winds have changed and whether the likely very substantial upcoming settlement by Con-way Freight in the Quezada case will have broader reach than merely California.

California says piece-rate pay cannot apply to non-piece-rate work, which must be paid separately at no less than State Minimum Wage.

Do you think Quezada v Con-way settlement is a game changer?

Will it affect you?

MrEd · Nov 3, 2014

G/MAN said: ↑

From the drivers I have seen, there is no danger of them going hungry. If drivers families suffer from lack of income, they need to learn how to manage their money. I have always been able to save money in this business and lived comfortably. If you live beyond your means, then your family will suffer. What you do for a living is not the issue.

As far as respect is concerned, that sits squarely on the backs of some drivers. Until about 15 or so years ago, drivers were well respected. It is some drivers, not all, who have cost drivers respect. Just look at how some look. They weigh 400 pounds and you still see them buying a big bag of chips at the truck stop and park at the nearest parking spot. After the trucks leave the truck stop, the lot is full of urine bottles. Fortunately, some of us still conduct ourselves and treat others with respect and it is reciprocated. You cannot blame carriers or the employers for drivers not being respected. All respect is not lost. Many people still respect drivers.

Driver pay is not necessarily the reason for turnover in the industry, contrary to popular belief. However, there are some drivers who will leave one company and go to another for a penny per mile more pay, only to find out that he isn't necessarily making more money. There are other factors which effect driver turnover that have nothing to do with the pay. An example is home time. Personally, I think the number one reason for driver turnover is lack of communication between drivers and the company. Regardless of industry, all companies have turnover.

I know you think that unions will solve all your problems in trucking. It won't. It will only create different problems. The Teamsters started to lose members after they shut down the country (for the most part) back in 1980(?). There were actually two instances where they tried to stop freight from moving. They did have an impact. Those who kept running took a chance of a hitting a cinder block dangling from an overpass, rocks thrown through the windshield or being shot at by union supporters or members. After that, it was the government that got involved and tried to reduce union influence in this industry. Deregulation allowed rates to be set by the market forces than fixed by published tariffs, creating price competition in the marketplace. It also alleviated some of the union influence. Even in their heyday, Teamsters only had a small percentage of otr drivers as members. Today, they have lost most of their influence. Walmart drivers who were involved in the lawsuit in California, have shot themselves in the foot and don't yet understand it. All of this is about greed. Those poor Walmart drivers were only making $87,000+/year. How can they get by on such a pittance?
Click to expand...

I have friends and relatives in California. In several different areas of the state. And with real estate prices, gas prices, etc.... 87,000 isnt a whole lot more than a pittance. Houses have been known to sell out there for 400,000+ that didn't even meet code. Unfortunately, when California responds to their relatively unique situations by making changes, people start to think those ideas can and should spread everywhere. That's when the problems start.

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