driving over the limit, need help!

Am I going to be required to be a liar...just because? Am I going to be forced to run illegal?
To both of these questions the answer is no. Why? Well the number one reason you use, is that you have a family to support. Well, I do too. But, according to how the rules work I can get fired for breaking the rules, have it put on my DAC and not be able to get a job based on said DAC in the future. No, deciding to be a cheat or a liar violates my moral principles irregardless of the situation. You cheat and lie on the small stuff and justify it, only a matter of time until you cheat and lie on the big stuff right? Hopefully you aren't one of the people blasting companies on here about them lying and/or cheating you!

While I'll agree that some rules in the log books(see split rules) are a joke...I understand the importance of them...to protect the drivers and the public. How is it protecting the driver's? Well I personally can tell you that I have been so desperate for money that I would do anything (legally) to make it. I've worked 2 jobs a day for many years and sometimes I worked 3 just to make ends meet. If I was in a truck during that time I probably would have ran as many hours as humanly possible and been praying that I didn't die! There are many, espically o/o that need to be running around the clock just to make it. There are also many that are so money hungy that they would run all night and day if they were allowed. Probably many companies that would force their drivers to run as many as possible too. Obviously all of this would be a hinderance to the public's safety.

Such a ludicris statement...like saying all truck driver's are liars and cheats right?

The challenge? I think that if you put this to a poll most company drivers would say they are definitely in it for the money. The only challenge I see would be if you were an o/o.

Quite jaded aren't you? Though I agree that most politicians suck. Law enforcement on average probably make a lot less than you do and you don't have to deal with criminals...just shippers.

How about attacking the people "hindering your ability to earn a paycheck" (see politicians) and not the cops. Funny thing throughout this thread is that you dog logs for "not being one of the boys" (my quote not yours) but yet you are consistently putting the cops down...and I'm fairly confident you haven't been one. (neither have I for the record)

Many of us resent the current HOS restrictions. We do not want the government regulating when we work, for how long, or how much we can earn. So with this understanding you may now see why many drivers will "alter" their logbooks to permit them more time to complete their jobs. This is actually a big part of why drivers want to become owner operators.

You resent it but are you fighting to get the reg's changed or just moaning? If you are then kudos to you, and thanks for fighting for it. If not then can you moan a little lower.
As far as understanding why you "alter" ,no... that logic is thrown right out the door. You don't like the regulations so you justify it by breaking it(instead of fighting it)...and you expect people to understand it. Kind of like the drunk that doesn't agree that it is wrong to drink and drive...so he just drives. Or the lunatic that thinks he should be able to kill whoever he wants...so he does it.

Let's not forget the fact that they aren't regulated, or that they aren't putting the public at risk. Maybe the individual patient but not everyone in the hospital. Next argument is going to be that they shouldn't make so much money...just because they went to med school and keep people from dying for a living.

It was built by hard working people...it was founded for other reasons. Read: "Lies My History Teacher Told Me."

True...but

I wish I could find the studies that showed in the 11th hour truck accidents almost double.

Since you know the #'s what are the number of cars on the road/vs trucks?

I'm not trying to be a d1ck in all of this, your post just rubbed me the wrong way(though it wasn't addressed to me) and I'm hoping you will look at things a little different by me pointing them out.

 

On the rules regarding state vs DOT... Fl has agreed to be regulated by Federal DOT and with it, follow DOT rules. FL handbook, as I recall, and I don't recall everything, says a driver must follow the more stringent rule because the governing body is actually the Fed. And since my company was ticketed for not having the correct company license, I suspect that's correct. I mean, he wouldn't have issued the ticket if the truck was legal. Or would he!!!

Here's another question for all... FMCSR 390.9 State and Local Laws, effect on.
"Except as otherwise specifically idicated, Subchaprer B of this chapter is not intended to preclude States or subdivisions thereof from establishing or enforcing State or local laws relating to safety, the compliance with which would not prevent full compliance with these regulations by the person sugect thereto."

It just seems by that, the laws must be at least as stringent as the FMCSR requires in safety matters.

 

For Coachmark1.

I appreciate a good discussion and with that in mind let us begin;

I understand you mean well and according to your profile you are a trucker wannabe. Therefore I understand your naivate' in regard to the "real world that is trucking." I will address each of your counter points with one of my own. Game on grasshopper.

I never said YOU have to lie. This is a personal choice for all of us. Based on your ethics and moral convictions you decide each day which rules, laws, or guidelines YOU choose to follow. As for being fired if you live in a "right to work state" you can be fired for any reason or no reason at all.
When drivers have been doing this for as long as I (and longer) we resent the rules being changed by some beauracratic agency midway through the game. Surely you can see that? You may read my posts as much as you like. I do not BLAST any company. I point out their flaws and tell each driver to make a choice based on the information presented. Of course having been a driver since 1992 I have only worked for 4 companies. I have in fact researched dozens of others and spoken with scores of drivers about their company. I do this so I may compare and contrast my pay and benefits package with the competition to determine wether I am indeed being paid what I am worth.

I say the Hos are a joke and I stand by that assessment. I will explain; The old HOS rules worked well. A driver was allowed to drive a maximum of 10 hours and then had to shut down for an 8 hour break. There was a 15 hour rule which stated after being on duty and driving combined for 15 hours the driver could not DRIVE beyond that 15th hour. They had to take an 8 hour break. The 70 hour in 8 day rule is the same. Now based on these older regs drivers were not required to push all those driving hours into a 14 hour work window. This is the problem and contrary to SAFETY. Under the old rules a driver could take a nap at any point during his day when he was tired and those hours were not held against him. Based on the old HOS rules a driver could "work" the system and drive over 15 hours in a 24 hour period. To illustrate this think about a driver coming off of a o8 hour break and beginning at midnight. He would then drive his 10 hours straight. He shuts down for his mandatory 8 hour break and then continues driving for the next 10 hour shift. This leaves 6 more hours he could have logged on the drive line for a maximum of 16 hours in a 24 hour period. By utilizing this system the driver would in fact burn through his 70 hours in about 5 days which would mean he would then have to wait 3 days before he got any of his hours back to drive. This permitted drivers 3 days downtime. Under the current rules the same concept can be used with the exception being now we can drive 11 hours in a row and then must take a 10 hour break before we start driving again. Once we burn through those 70 hours we are then able to shut down for 34 hours to "reset" the 70 hour work rule. 38 hours LESS down time than we had under the old rules. Do you get it yet? The new rules are PUSHING DRIVERS and giving LESS time off than the old HOS ever did. They even re-worded the "split sleeper berth" provision to penalized drivers for stopping to take a nap.

As for my ludacris statement about law enforcement you are entitled to your opinion as am I. I see cops speeding, tailgating, making illegal u-turns, using unnecessary force with suspects, using intimidation and fear to keep the people under their thumbs. I read many newspapers and magazines and am justified in my estimation every time a cop is found out to be a hypocrit, has hired prostitutes, has shaken down drug dealers, has demanded kick backs from pimps and pushers to let them "slide." Never heard of "quotas" or racial profiling either I bet. Surely at the age of 34 you can not REALLY be this naive???


The challenge is driving 500 to 700 miles per day consistently in all types of terrain and weather while dealing with different rules based on the jurisdiction we happen to be traveling through. It is also a challenge to drive a 70 foot long vehicle through the traffic without hitting anyone. Remember grasshopper "ignorance of the law is no excuse."

Mwah? Jaded? Perhaps. I consider myself a "realist." You may use that term if you choose but it does not change my point of view.

I am a registered voter. I do vote. I take part in discussions on this forum as well as others. I offer my opinions to others when asked. I have left comments at the DOT website regarding the HOS rules. I have been interviewed by reporters in my travels as well. What nuggets have you contributed my friend?

LOGSRUS is a fine lady. I respect and applaud her for what she does here. I do not agree with her at times and we have friendly discusions regarding our differing points of view. I do not believe I have ever attempted to be malicious with her. I would hope that if she perceived my comments in such a light that she would pm me to clarify. As she has not I must assume she does indeed "get me." Nice of you to try and defend her honor (although it really was not necessary).

I am on the record in many of my posts for being against HYPOCRISY. When the law enforcement officials entrusted with keeping the peace and SERVING the public violate that trust I am incensed. I have met some real top notch officers who conduct themselves in a professional manner both in private and while on duty and I have nothing but respect for THOSE individuals. The bad apples that ruin that professional image and reputation are the ones I rail about.

I will give you some examples of lying as a truckdriver. Showing you are in your sleeper berth or off duty when in fact you are forced to sit in a waiting room (unpaid) while the customer unloads your trailer which may take several hours. Log it as "on duty" as the regs stipulate and you are shooting yourself in the foot when it comes to your 70 hour rule. How about when your sitting in the terminal waiting for your next assignment? Again considered as on duty time by the regs. Heres another; I arrive at a customer at 2300 and park in the lot. I begin my 10 hour break and the customer wakes me up at 0600 to assign me a dock. I comply and get up, get dressed, open my doors, and dock the trailer where instructed. I have just disturbed my 10 hour break and according to the REGS I have to restart my 10 hour break over??? Thats BULL SPIT! I will lie and show that I docked that trailer at 2300, showed my Post trip and receiver unload in the same 30 minute period, will show 2 hours of "off duty time" and then the next 8 hours in the sleeper berth so I may go get my next load to keep rolling at 0930.

As for physicians. They are required to have several years of medical school. Must pass all kinds of exams. Must carry insurance. And are required to do an internship and residency at a local hospital. They have the lives of their patients in their hands every day with their ability to proscribe all kinds of medication that may in fact kill their patient if they are too tired or make a mistake. Remember the old saying "doctors bury their mistakes?" I assure you it is true and this is why malpractice insurance is so high for doctors. "Do no harm" is their first priority but mistakes do happen.

Oh so now you intend to school me about American History. Hmmm what would you teach me? About the debtors prisons of England that were emptied and the citizens that were transported to America to work off that debt? Or the religious fanatics that could not worship in their home country the way they wanted to yet attempted to convert the "savages" of this country to "save their souls" and make them worship their God. Or about the American revolution that finally threw out the English rule and sovereignty? Do you really want to discuss American History. Well I got a few things for you to read up on; Try Ruby Ridge, Cherokees Trail of Tears or better yet read this;

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Partial list of U.S. Government Atrocities on Its Own People[/FONT]​

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1931 Dr. Cornelius Rhoads, under the auspices of the Rockefeller Institute for Medical Investigations, infects human subjects with cancer cells. He later goes on to establish the U.S. Army Biological Warfare facilities in Maryland, Utah, and Panama, and is named to the U.S. Atomic Energy Commission. While there, he begins a series of radiation exposure experiments on American soldiers and civilian hospital patients. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1932 The Tuskegee Syphilis Study begins. 200 black men diagnosed with syphilis are never told of their illness, are denied treatment, and instead are used as human guinea pigs in order to follow the progression and symptoms of the disease. They all subsequently die from syphilis, their families never told that they could have been treated. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1935 The Pellagra Incident. After millions of individuals die from Pellagra over a span of two decades, the U.S. Public Health Service finally acts to stem the disease. The director of the agency admits it had known for at least 20 years that Pellagra is caused by a niacin deficiency but failed to act since most of the deaths occurred within poverty-stricken black populations. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1940 Four hundred prisoners in Chicago are infected with Malaria in order to study the effects of new and experimental drugs to combat the disease. Nazi doctors later on trial at Nuremberg cite this American study to defend their own actions during the Holocaust. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1942 Chemical Warfare Services begins mustard gas experiments on approximately 4,000 servicemen. The experiments continue until 1945 and made use of Seventh Day Adventists who chose to become human guinea pigs rather than serve on active duty. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1943 In response to Japan's full-scale germ warfare program, the U.S. begins research on biological weapons at Fort Detrick, MD. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1944 U.S. Navy uses human subjects to test gas masks and clothing. Individuals were locked in a gas chamber and exposed to mustard gas and lewisite. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1945 Project Paperclip is initiated. The U.S. State Department, Army intelligence, and the CIA recruit Nazi scientists and offer them immunity and secret identities in exchange for work on top secret government projects in the United States. 'Program F' is implemented by the U.S. Atomic Energy Commission (AEC). This is the most extensive U.S. study of the health effects of fluoride, which was the key chemical component in atomic bomb production. One of the most toxic chemicals known to man, fluoride, it is found, causes marked adverse effects to the central nervous system but much of the information is squelched in the name of national security because of fear that lawsuits would undermine full-scale production of atomic bombs. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1946 Patients in VA hospitals are used as guinea pigs for medical experiments. In order to allay suspicions, the order is given to change the word 'experiments' to 'investigations' or 'observations' whenever reporting a medical study performed in one of the nation's veteran's hospitals. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1947 Colonel E.E. Kirpatrick of the U.S. Atomic Energy Commission issues a secret document (Document 07075001, January 8, 1947) stating that the agency will begin administering intravenous doses of radioactive substances to human subjects. The CIA begins its study of LSD as a potential weapon for use by American intelligence. Human subjects (both civilian and military) are used with and without their knowledge. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1950 Department of Defense begins plans to detonate nuclear weapons in desert areas and monitor downwind residents for medical problems and mortality rates. In an experiment to determine how susceptible an American city would be to biological attack, the U.S. Navy sprays a cloud of bacteria from ships over San Francisco. Monitoring devices are situated throughout the city in order to test the extent of infection. Many residents become ill with pneumonia-like symptoms. Department of Defense begins open air tests using disease-producing bacteria and viruses. Tests last through 1969 and there is concern that people in the surrounding areas have been exposed. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1953 U.S. military releases clouds of zinc cadmium sulfide gas over Winnipeg, St. Louis, Minneapolis, Fort Wayne, the Monocacy River Valley in Maryland, and Leesburg, Virginia. Their intent is to determine how efficiently they could disperse chemical agents. Joint Army - Navy - CIA experiments are conducted in which tens of thousands fo people in New York and San Francisco are exposed to the airborne germs Serratia marcescens and Bacillus glogigii. CIA initiates Project MKULTRA. This is an eleven year research program designed to produce and test drugs and biological agents that would be used for mind control and behavior modification. Six of the sub projects involved testing the agents on unwitting human beings. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1955 The CIA, in an experiment to test its ability to infect human populations with biological agents, releases a bacteria withdrawn from the ArmyÕs biological warfare arsenal over Tampa Bay, FL. Army Chemical Corps continues LSD research, studying its potential use as a chemical incapacitating agent. More than 1,000 Americans participate in the tests, which continue until 1958. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1956 U.S. military releases mosquitoes infected with Yellow Fever over Savannah, GA. and Avon Park, FL. Following each test, Army agents posing as public health officials test victims for effects. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1958 LSD is tested on 95 volunteers at the Army's Chemical Warfare Laboratories for its effect on intelligence. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1960 The Army Assistant Chief-of-Staff for Intelligence (ACSI) authorizes field testing of LSD in Europe and the Far East. Testing of the European population is code named Project THIRDCHANCE; testing of the Asian population is code named Project DERBY HAT. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1965 Project CIA and Department of Defense begin Project MKSEARCH, a program to develop capability to manipulate human behavior through the use of mind-altering drugs. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1965 Prisoners at the Holmesburg State Prison in Philadelphia are subjected to dioxin, the highly toxic chemical component of Agent Orange used in Viet Nam. The men are later studied for development of cancer, which indicates that Agent Orange had been a suspected carcinogen all along. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1966 CIA initiates Project MKOFTEN, a program to test the toxicological effects of certain drugs on humans and animals. U.S. Army dispenses Bacillus subtilis variant niger throughout the New York City subway system. More than a million civilians are exposed when Army scientists drop light-bulbs filled with the bacteria on to ventilation grates. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1967 CIA and Department of Defense implement Project MKNAOMI, successor to MKULTRA and designed to maintain, stockpile and test biological and chemical weapons. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1968 CIA experiments with the possibility of poisoning drinking water by injecting chemicals into the water supply of the FDA in Washington, D.C. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1969 Dr. Robert MacMahan of the Department of Defense requests from Congress $10 million to develop, within 5 to 10 years, a synthetic biological agent to which no natural immunity exists. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1970 Funding for the synthetic biological agent is obtained under H.R. 15090. The project, under the supervision of the CIA, is carried out by the Special Operations Division at Fort Detrick, the Army's top secret biological weapons facility. Speculation is raised that molecular biology techniques are used to produce AIDS- like viruses. United States intensifies its development of 'ethnic weapons' (Military Review, Nov., 1970), designed to selectively target and eliminate specific ethnic groups who are susceptible due to genetic differences and variations in DNA. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1975 The virus section of Fort DetrickÕs Center for Biological Warfare Research is renamed the Fredrick Cancer Research Facilities and placed under the supervision of the National Cancer Institute (NCI). It is here that a special virus cancer program is initiated by the U.S. Navy, purportedly to develop cancer-causing viruses. It is also here that retro-virologist isolate a virus to which no immunity exists. It is later named HTLV (Human T-cell Leukemia Virus). [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1977 Senate hearings on Health and Scientific Research confirm that 239 populated areas had been contaminated with biological agents between 1949 and 1969. Some of the areas included San Francisco, Washington, D.C., Key West, Panama City, Minneapolis, and St. Louis. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1978 Experimental Hepatitis B vaccine trials, conducted by the CDC, begin in New York, Los Angeles and San Francisco. Ads for research subjects specifically ask for promiscuous homosexual men. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1981 First cases of AIDS are confirmed in homosexual men in New York, Los Angeles and San Francisco, triggering speculation that AIDS may have been introduced via the Hepatitis B vaccine. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1985 According to the journal Science (227:173-177), HTLV and VISNA, a fatal sheep virus, are very similar, indicating a close taxonomic and evolutionary relationship. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1986 According to the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (83:4007-4011), HIV and VISNA are highly similar and share all structural elements, except for a small segment which is nearly identical to HTLV. This leads to speculation that HTLV and VISNA may have been linked to produce a new retro virus to which no natural immunity exists. A report to Congress reveals that the U.S. Government's current generation of biological agents includes: modified viruses, naturally occurring toxins, and agents that are altered through genetic engineering to change immunological character and prevent treatment by all existing vaccines. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1987 Department of Defense admits that, despite a treaty banning research and development of biological agents, it continues to operate research facilities at 127 facilities and universities around the nation. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1990 More than 1500 six-month old black and Hispanic babies in Los Angeles are given an 'experimental' measles vaccine that had never been licensed for use in the United States. CDC later admits that parents were never informed that the vaccine being injected to their children was experimental. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1994 With a technique called 'gene tracking,' Dr. Garth Nicolson at the MD Anderson Cancer Center in Houston, TX. discovers that many returning Desert Storm veterans are infected with an altered strain of Mycoplasma incognitus, a microbe commonly used in the production of biological weapons. Incorporated into its molecular structure is 40 percent of the HIV protein coat, indicating that it had been man-made. Senator John D. Rockefeller issues a report revealing that for at least 50 years the Department of Defense has used hundreds of thousands of military personnel in human experiments and for intentional exposure to dangerous substances. Materials include mustard and nerve gas, ionizing radiation, psycho chemicals, hallucinogens, and drugs used during the Gulf War. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1995 U.S. Government admits that it had offered Japanese war criminals and scientists who had performed human medical experiments salaries and immunity from prosecution in exchange for data on biological warfare research. Dr. Garth Nicolson, uncovers evidence that the biological agents used during the Gulf War had been manufactured in Houston, Tx. and Boca Raton, FL. And tested on prisoners in the Texas Department of Corrections. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1996 Department of Defense admits that Desert Storm soldiers were exposed to chemical agents. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1997 Eighty-eight members of Congress sign a letter demanding an investigation into bio-weapons use & Gulf War Syndrome. [/FONT]

Ok I think that clearly illustrates my understanding and mistrust of our wonderful government.

You have been served sir. Balls in your court now.

 

Bring it, as I said before my principals are not compromised whether I have 13 years in a truck or 0 days. Experience will not make me a liar.

You didn't, but I wasn't questioning my ethics or morals...I was questioning yours. I responded the way I did because I can't believe that you would breaking the law, risk your freedom, risk your job, and risk your family's livelihood...and defend it with "the man is trying to keep me down" theories.

I'm in one and I agree that life can be hard and you can get served a pile....but what can you do, but move on.

Sure I can see that...but I'm not blind or ignorant to changes. I have never driven a truck but can tell you I would like the old rules better. Things change and so we get used to them. Those that don't suffer.Why? Because they do it to themselves. Maybe if you figured out how to accomodate your day to work within the scope of the rules you could make it easier on you? You are 38yrs old I'm 34....think about all the crap we have seen change in our lives and how we have adapted to it. In the Marines I learned one motto that will always stick with me: Adapt and overcome...plain and simple.

I never said you blasted any company...only the police.

That's awesome and a bit of advice I will take with me on my driver pursuit. As far as your work ethic, you seem to commit longer than alot on here. I'm the same way. To bad more aren't like that, because in my opinion the more that jump from company to company...the lower the wages will go.

No need to explain as I said I gree with you that the new regulations are a joke compared to the way you used to have it. I've read the old and think my sleeping patterns would have adjusted easier to the old. That being said I am now changing alot of what I do to prepare me for the road.

Let's turn it around for ya...0 truckers have ever been "hypocrits, hired prostitutes, been drug dealers themselves, or sped right?" All lawmen are not perfect....again taking words out of context. I definitely have heard of racial profiling even where I live (see Murder in Coweta County) Do I think there are crooked cops? Heck yes. Do I hink there are crooked anything? Certainly. Do I think the majority are or even say half are? Not a chance. I might if forced to say it would say that the majority of our politicians are...from the top on down. But I don't think that the majority of the people defending this country are. Most (whether you believe it or not are the same as you and I).

I'll give you this one because you are right. I've always had respect for trucker's and the job they do because it isn't easy. Kind of like your local law enforcement that go out enforcing laws and not knowing if the person they are arresting has aids, a knife, a gun or anything else waiting for them. Remember grasshopper "Tactics of the crooked defense attornies are no excuse"

I use the term because to me when someone is jaded: they are cynically callous, or motivated using selfish reasons, and even feel emotionless or hardened about issues or others. I think based on your feelings toward lawmen, laws, etc. that I didn't get the definition or wording I used incorrect. But if you take offense I'll not use it anymore.

None as of yet, except with you. WHY? Well I'm just the wannabe remember? As far as my statement or question I believe I simply said are you one of the moaners or are you doing something about it?! Right?
As far as the methods you are using: you really think voting, talking to reporters, commenting on a DOT website(where the webmaster prob. deletes said post) and posting on a message board are going to work? Come on at 38 you aren't that naive are you??

Defend her honor?! LOL I've seen some of her discussions on here and think she has stood up to alot of you pretty darn well. Probably, since she is in the industry, better than I can. I don't know whether she paid you mind one way or the other. I posted responding to you(and believe I prefaced it by saying it wasn't my conversation) because I wanted to respond to you. Last I checked this is still a message board where you can do that, right? I didn't and still don't think you were attacking anyone. As I said before I was hoping to make you think a little and try to see both sides of the coin. Clearly I failed and it's all good.

You are entrusted by your company with running legal. You are trusted by me that you aren't going to hit my wife's car and kill my kids, right???? So do I have the right to be incensed at you for running illegal??? The bad apples that ruin your professional image are the same ones that are making the laws tighter on you. DON'T YOU GET THAT?

The problem as I see it is that shippers/receivers are never going to be forced to change because there are so many drivers letting this happen. If the freight stopped moving because the majority were running legal wouldn't the pressure be on the shippers/receivers?

(I'm playing devils advocate here)Ok isn't it your fault for parking in their lot? I know...I know dispatch gave you the load late. But you accepted it without telling them you were almost out of hours. Wouldn't Logs say that if you had used the split break earlier that it would have been easier to explain that you are off duty until 7am? I dunno...I'm asking?

Your choice...

True...how many people were killed in that 1 accident in Florida? Multiple amounts. A doctor can only kill 1 at a time. Misdiagnosis is a bigger killer than "being tired". The issue here was you saying "why doesn't congress put regulations on how many hours doctors can work".

My point was that if you thought the country was built on hard work and people coming here to "make a better life for themselves" as most history books say...then you were mistaken. Clearly you are not mistaken and we probably could have some really good history conversations.

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Partial list of U.S. Government Atrocities on Its Own People[/FONT]​

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1931 Dr. Cornelius Rhoads, under the auspices of the Rockefeller Institute for Medical Investigations, infects human subjects with cancer cells. He later goes on to establish the U.S. Army Biological Warfare facilities in Maryland, Utah, and Panama, and is named to the U.S. Atomic Energy Commission. While there, he begins a series of radiation exposure experiments on American soldiers and civilian hospital patients. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1932 The Tuskegee Syphilis Study begins. 200 black men diagnosed with syphilis are never told of their illness, are denied treatment, and instead are used as human guinea pigs in order to follow the progression and symptoms of the disease. They all subsequently die from syphilis, their families never told that they could have been treated. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1935 The Pellagra Incident. After millions of individuals die from Pellagra over a span of two decades, the U.S. Public Health Service finally acts to stem the disease. The director of the agency admits it had known for at least 20 years that Pellagra is caused by a niacin deficiency but failed to act since most of the deaths occurred within poverty-stricken black populations. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1940 Four hundred prisoners in Chicago are infected with Malaria in order to study the effects of new and experimental drugs to combat the disease. Nazi doctors later on trial at Nuremberg cite this American study to defend their own actions during the Holocaust. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1942 Chemical Warfare Services begins mustard gas experiments on approximately 4,000 servicemen. The experiments continue until 1945 and made use of Seventh Day Adventists who chose to become human guinea pigs rather than serve on active duty. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1943 In response to Japan's full-scale germ warfare program, the U.S. begins research on biological weapons at Fort Detrick, MD. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1944 U.S. Navy uses human subjects to test gas masks and clothing. Individuals were locked in a gas chamber and exposed to mustard gas and lewisite. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1945 Project Paperclip is initiated. The U.S. State Department, Army intelligence, and the CIA recruit Nazi scientists and offer them immunity and secret identities in exchange for work on top secret government projects in the United States. 'Program F' is implemented by the U.S. Atomic Energy Commission (AEC). This is the most extensive U.S. study of the health effects of fluoride, which was the key chemical component in atomic bomb production. One of the most toxic chemicals known to man, fluoride, it is found, causes marked adverse effects to the central nervous system but much of the information is squelched in the name of national security because of fear that lawsuits would undermine full-scale production of atomic bombs. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1946 Patients in VA hospitals are used as guinea pigs for medical experiments. In order to allay suspicions, the order is given to change the word 'experiments' to 'investigations' or 'observations' whenever reporting a medical study performed in one of the nation's veteran's hospitals. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1947 Colonel E.E. Kirpatrick of the U.S. Atomic Energy Commission issues a secret document (Document 07075001, January 8, 1947) stating that the agency will begin administering intravenous doses of radioactive substances to human subjects. The CIA begins its study of LSD as a potential weapon for use by American intelligence. Human subjects (both civilian and military) are used with and without their knowledge. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1950 Department of Defense begins plans to detonate nuclear weapons in desert areas and monitor downwind residents for medical problems and mortality rates. In an experiment to determine how susceptible an American city would be to biological attack, the U.S. Navy sprays a cloud of bacteria from ships over San Francisco. Monitoring devices are situated throughout the city in order to test the extent of infection. Many residents become ill with pneumonia-like symptoms. Department of Defense begins open air tests using disease-producing bacteria and viruses. Tests last through 1969 and there is concern that people in the surrounding areas have been exposed. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1953 U.S. military releases clouds of zinc cadmium sulfide gas over Winnipeg, St. Louis, Minneapolis, Fort Wayne, the Monocacy River Valley in Maryland, and Leesburg, Virginia. Their intent is to determine how efficiently they could disperse chemical agents. Joint Army - Navy - CIA experiments are conducted in which tens of thousands fo people in New York and San Francisco are exposed to the airborne germs Serratia marcescens and Bacillus glogigii. CIA initiates Project MKULTRA. This is an eleven year research program designed to produce and test drugs and biological agents that would be used for mind control and behavior modification. Six of the sub projects involved testing the agents on unwitting human beings. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1955 The CIA, in an experiment to test its ability to infect human populations with biological agents, releases a bacteria withdrawn from the ArmyÕs biological warfare arsenal over Tampa Bay, FL. Army Chemical Corps continues LSD research, studying its potential use as a chemical incapacitating agent. More than 1,000 Americans participate in the tests, which continue until 1958. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1956 U.S. military releases mosquitoes infected with Yellow Fever over Savannah, GA. and Avon Park, FL. Following each test, Army agents posing as public health officials test victims for effects. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1958 LSD is tested on 95 volunteers at the Army's Chemical Warfare Laboratories for its effect on intelligence. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1960 The Army Assistant Chief-of-Staff for Intelligence (ACSI) authorizes field testing of LSD in Europe and the Far East. Testing of the European population is code named Project THIRDCHANCE; testing of the Asian population is code named Project DERBY HAT. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1965 Project CIA and Department of Defense begin Project MKSEARCH, a program to develop capability to manipulate human behavior through the use of mind-altering drugs. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1965 Prisoners at the Holmesburg State Prison in Philadelphia are subjected to dioxin, the highly toxic chemical component of Agent Orange used in Viet Nam. The men are later studied for development of cancer, which indicates that Agent Orange had been a suspected carcinogen all along. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1966 CIA initiates Project MKOFTEN, a program to test the toxicological effects of certain drugs on humans and animals. U.S. Army dispenses Bacillus subtilis variant niger throughout the New York City subway system. More than a million civilians are exposed when Army scientists drop light-bulbs filled with the bacteria on to ventilation grates. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1967 CIA and Department of Defense implement Project MKNAOMI, successor to MKULTRA and designed to maintain, stockpile and test biological and chemical weapons. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1968 CIA experiments with the possibility of poisoning drinking water by injecting chemicals into the water supply of the FDA in Washington, D.C. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1969 Dr. Robert MacMahan of the Department of Defense requests from Congress $10 million to develop, within 5 to 10 years, a synthetic biological agent to which no natural immunity exists. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1970 Funding for the synthetic biological agent is obtained under H.R. 15090. The project, under the supervision of the CIA, is carried out by the Special Operations Division at Fort Detrick, the Army's top secret biological weapons facility. Speculation is raised that molecular biology techniques are used to produce AIDS- like viruses. United States intensifies its development of 'ethnic weapons' (Military Review, Nov., 1970), designed to selectively target and eliminate specific ethnic groups who are susceptible due to genetic differences and variations in DNA. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1975 The virus section of Fort DetrickÕs Center for Biological Warfare Research is renamed the Fredrick Cancer Research Facilities and placed under the supervision of the National Cancer Institute (NCI). It is here that a special virus cancer program is initiated by the U.S. Navy, purportedly to develop cancer-causing viruses. It is also here that retro-virologist isolate a virus to which no immunity exists. It is later named HTLV (Human T-cell Leukemia Virus). [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1977 Senate hearings on Health and Scientific Research confirm that 239 populated areas had been contaminated with biological agents between 1949 and 1969. Some of the areas included San Francisco, Washington, D.C., Key West, Panama City, Minneapolis, and St. Louis. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1978 Experimental Hepatitis B vaccine trials, conducted by the CDC, begin in New York, Los Angeles and San Francisco. Ads for research subjects specifically ask for promiscuous homosexual men. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1981 First cases of AIDS are confirmed in homosexual men in New York, Los Angeles and San Francisco, triggering speculation that AIDS may have been introduced via the Hepatitis B vaccine. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1985 According to the journal Science (227:173-177), HTLV and VISNA, a fatal sheep virus, are very similar, indicating a close taxonomic and evolutionary relationship. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1986 According to the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (83:4007-4011), HIV and VISNA are highly similar and share all structural elements, except for a small segment which is nearly identical to HTLV. This leads to speculation that HTLV and VISNA may have been linked to produce a new retro virus to which no natural immunity exists. A report to Congress reveals that the U.S. Government's current generation of biological agents includes: modified viruses, naturally occurring toxins, and agents that are altered through genetic engineering to change immunological character and prevent treatment by all existing vaccines. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1987 Department of Defense admits that, despite a treaty banning research and development of biological agents, it continues to operate research facilities at 127 facilities and universities around the nation. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1990 More than 1500 six-month old black and Hispanic babies in Los Angeles are given an 'experimental' measles vaccine that had never been licensed for use in the United States. CDC later admits that parents were never informed that the vaccine being injected to their children was experimental. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1994 With a technique called 'gene tracking,' Dr. Garth Nicolson at the MD Anderson Cancer Center in Houston, TX. discovers that many returning Desert Storm veterans are infected with an altered strain of Mycoplasma incognitus, a microbe commonly used in the production of biological weapons. Incorporated into its molecular structure is 40 percent of the HIV protein coat, indicating that it had been man-made. Senator John D. Rockefeller issues a report revealing that for at least 50 years the Department of Defense has used hundreds of thousands of military personnel in human experiments and for intentional exposure to dangerous substances. Materials include mustard and nerve gas, ionizing radiation, psycho chemicals, hallucinogens, and drugs used during the Gulf War. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1995 U.S. Government admits that it had offered Japanese war criminals and scientists who had performed human medical experiments salaries and immunity from prosecution in exchange for data on biological warfare research. Dr. Garth Nicolson, uncovers evidence that the biological agents used during the Gulf War had been manufactured in Houston, Tx. and Boca Raton, FL. And tested on prisoners in the Texas Department of Corrections. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1996 Department of Defense admits that Desert Storm soldiers were exposed to chemical agents. [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1997 Eighty-eight members of Congress sign a letter demanding an investigation into bio-weapons use & Gulf War Syndrome. [/FONT]

Distrust, distrust? I can't believe you left 2001 off of your list....but that's for another day. Or how about one government agency admitting to bringing cocaine into LA in the 80's?

Batter up

 

Coachmark1

I understand the reluctance to the running illegal.

In the real world, after you complete driving school, and after you are with a trainer, please come back and tell the story of the way it is.

We have all been there.

 

APPARENTLY, you missed the point. You decide what is important to you and me...to me. I won't compromise my values for anyone or anything... UNLESS it is either a life or death decision for me or my family.

One good thing I learned in the military boys...I don't have to do a gd thing except die, and pay taxes.


NEXT...

 

It seems you are the one that is missing the point. I did not say I supported running illegal. I did not say you were going to run illegal.

You are a wannabe. All I am saying it is good to have your goals. But let us know AFTER you have been with the trainer.

I KNOW how they run. I also have turned the dispatcher into a nut refusing to run illegal.

 

Ok I get it, so you are going to hold me to the grindstone for what I do while in the trainers truck.Gotcha

 

You said you would never run illegal. I was just elaborating on it.

Your intentions are good. However, as stated by jkklj777, there will be instances that you will probably end up showing as false entries on your log. Innocent as they may be.

 

Yes with a USDOT# you still have to follow state law.If you have trucks no matter how many that all of them run intrastate only Have a State DOT#.I asked Federal DOT about some laws they were breaking and I was told since they were Intrastate I needed to call the state DOT not USDOT.If they run interstate call USDOT..And this Company is not doing drug test or Pre trip The short of this is they are not doing anything every O/O or CO.has to do.