Rates in the toilet?

Rank, it's just not that black and white. Using rca add an example cause it's the one I'm most knowledgeable about, management did not want to close that plant. But they had to lower cost in order to compete with the sanyo's and sony's on the store shelf. a very small decrease in labor costs, along with other cost saving measures such as more automation in the plant, would have accomplished that.

Now I completely agree with our politicians holding a big chunk of the blame, they sold this country out. But union leadership hooks just as much responsibility in that as the politicians do. After all, it was the unions that put Carter in the white house. quite possibly the worst president since fdr the communist.

Two questions. If unions are so good, why is it in the northern states where they still have a strangle hold on state governments, that union membership is compulsory to have a job at a union plant or factory? If the union is so good for the employee, why can't it stand on its own merits and allow individuals the choice to join or not?

Second question. In the strong union states, factories close up left and right(granted not so much anymore cause most of them left already) while in the southern states with right to work laws factories went up left and right in the sand time frame? Toyota builds cars in Mississippi, refridgedair makes appliances in south Carolina. All their employees earn a very good wage, on par with northern union workers,, and the companies make a decent profit margin to continue to attract investors. the only difference is how much power the union had down south vs up north.

Simply put, if a company can not be profitable in one location, they will move. They certainly are not going to keep bleeding money out of the kindness of their hearts. And neither would you or I.

 

1st rebuttal: because all employees benefit from the Union. Non members would still work in a clean safe environment.... They wouldn't work in a dusty death trap.

2nd rebuttal: these companies move from place to place like pro sports franchises. They get a tax deal in a depressed region where people work cheap and in a few years they are gone leaving only the derelict buildings. Ever heard on a non union plant in the south called Saturn?

 

PS. I can take unions or leave them but I believe the big killer is low wages, employment standards and currency exchange on other countries.

 

The old Saturn plant in Spring Hill, TN closed up shop several years ago when GM stopped making Saturn's altogether. It stayed empty for a while but now they have union GM people in there building cars. They're trying to bring the union into Volkswagen in Chattanooga too. I don't have a dog in the fight and could care less one way or another. I will say this though. That union GM plant is a lot more orderly and has their #### together much better than the non-union Nissan plant down the road in Smyrna. Why that is I don't know. Mercedes down in Vance, AL is also orderly and by the schedule, in and out no BS, and I don't think they are union. I don't really think it matters. Some plants are always a cluster #### and some are not.

 

But Coal...... The Saturn plant was non union. It was supposed to be the model for the future. It was in the south. Hiw could it have failed?**

**note sarcasm dripping from text. Full disclosure: I was a non union GM employee when they built Saturn. "A different kind of car. A different kind of car company"

 

As a non union employee, I worked along side Union GM workers for 17 yrs and they weren't bad. There are bigger forces at play than the unions IMO.

 

.....now talking about RCA vs Sony. Back in ~1995, I was in the market for a big screen TV. I really wanted to buy RCA but the Sony picture quality blew RCA away. I paid MORE money for a smaller Sony because of the better picture. The Union isn't responsible for picture quality. Engineering is.

Same with the big 3. Everyone says the domestics were crap and Honda, Toyota were great. I disagree with that notion. But even if true, that's a design issue not a union issue. Engineers are non union.

Even GM's recent recall trouble over the past couple of years can't be blamed on the Union. Poor design, poor purchasing decisions..... Both of these departments are non union. A little research even might reveal that some of the suppliers that built the faulty parts were non union shops.

As for unions being responsible for electing the politicians and therefore by extension they are responsible for free trade; bit of a stretch there. I highly doubt the unions were in favor of free trade.

 

The big three could not invest nearly add much in research and design cause they were bleeding out their rears paying full pensions to 50 year old men that had retired and picked up a job working party time at a local garage.

Now obviously not all union members are bad people. But their leadership is just like the politicians in dc. They only care about themselves. And some of the regular members are just as bad.

I grew up in the junk car business, and once a week a guy would come by to buy our cores. Without fail every week, the same day, this dude that worked at the lordstown plant showed up with his trunk literally full of brand new starters and alternators he stole from his company, and his fellow union employees watched him do it, to sell to the core buyer. And to add insult to injury, someone else would punch his time card at the end of the day so he would get paid while taking a half a day off to sell the stuff his style from his employer. Absolutely no fear of getting caught cause he knew his union would make sure he kept his job.

Now if course every union claims they are responsible for raising wages for every one in America. there is absolutely no proof of this. By contrast, wages were bound to go up, with or with out unions. Natural free market dynamics insure this. Manufacturers don't just compete for customers, they also compete for workers. Proof of this? look at places around the world where companies moved plants to. The standard of living has increased in their local areas with no union.

 

Yeah we had a few of those guys too. After a couple of strikes even the Union wouldn't protect them anymore. 3500 people there bound to be some bad apples

 

I fondly remember being a teamster back in 1997. We were paid as a company driver 92 cpm, loaded only but usually 60 to 75 percent loaded miles. 19 and change for fueling your truck and anything work related like drug tests and physicals, safety meetings. Fully paid health and dental. No kissing ### to dispatch or management. Just do your job get paid and have plenty of time off. I made over 50 grand my first year there. It may sound like peanuts but in South Carolina in 1997 as a 24 yr old I lived like a king. The kicker was that I only worked 6 months out of the year and was laid off 6 months.
My brother still is a teamster and gets $1.21 a mile ish as a company driver . Works m-f on elogs 5 weeks paid vacation the whole nine yards.
Does anyone know if Swift, or CR England are hiring?
Hate unions all you want but they are the reason wages are as high as they are for truck drivers. I agree that management is and always was corrupt but show me an honest company that doesn't screw there drivers. God I miss being a Teamster !