1993 international hydraulic brake problem

Discussion in 'Heavy Duty Diesel Truck Mechanics Forum' started by Mwwade, May 29, 2018.

  1. Mwwade

    Mwwade Bobtail Member

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    I own a 1993 international 4700. The truck is a dump truck. I started the truck one morning, and I had no brakes. The brake booster electric motor was running with the engine on as it should, and the red brake light was lit on the dash. I drove the truck to the mechanic to have a new master cylinder installed. When I went to pick up the truck I turned the key on, and the elec. booster motor was not running, and the red light was still on the dash. The buser on the fuse panel was also on. The mechanic had it for another two weeks, and could not fix the problem. I replaced the relay on the master cylinder. Replaced the two diodes under the dash(one was burnt out). I replaced what I think is called monitor module(located under the dash). The only thing I see wrong is in the fuse panel. F33-BAT HYD brake warning module ign cat 3176 & peec sensor. Fuse port is dead. There is a fuse in the slot, but no 12v to the back side of the fuse. Out the back side of the fuse are 2 gray wires, one is larger than the other. I did trace the larger back to the relay located on the master cylinder. From all the elec. diagrams I have looked at their is only one wire going to the 12v booster motor, mine has two. I don’t know if this is correct or not. I did remove the two wires, and ran a good 12v hot wire to the motor just to see if the motor ran, and it does.
    I need to know where the small gray wire goes from f33 fuse. I would appreciate any, and all help on this. Thanks in advance. Oh, I failed to mention the truck has excellent brakes.
     
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  3. Dino soar

    Dino soar Road Train Member

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    I'm not being funny when I say this, but is there any way that you could just put a vacuum pump on your truck and just put a regular vacuum booster/ master cylinder from something similar on there? That's what I would do.

    I'm completely stunned that any manufacturer would put Electronics on a truck with hydraulic brakes. But I should know better by now.

    I am not going to go on and on about how I hate electronics on trucks and how they shouldn't be on there because all they do is make problems. That's not going to help you.

    But if there is any way that you can convert that over, I can only tell you that the older trucks that worked on Purely vacuum with a vacuum booster/ master cylinder had zero problems and worked every day dependably and reliably. Even better than air brakes when they are bled and adjusted properly.

    That's the best that I can tell you. Good luck.
     
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  4. Goodysnap

    Goodysnap Road Train Member

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    This electric motor is only intended to create hydraulic pressure when the steering pump loses pressure so that power brakes are maintained in case of engine stall. It should run KOEO or when the pedal is depressed engine off. The electric pump should not be running when the engine is running. I haven't messed with these in some time. Maybe someone else has access to get you specific answers to your electrical questions.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2018
    AModelCat Thanks this.
  5. Mwwade

    Mwwade Bobtail Member

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    That is the way it worked before the mechanic got hold of it.
     
  6. x1Heavy

    x1Heavy Road Train Member

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    I am very reluctant to rely on engine vacumn to power the liquid brakes system.

    There were times the engines Ive had that system on (Muscle cars not big trucks) were too tired to generate the necessary vacumn for one reason or another.

    Don't get me started on electronics or motors of that type.

    I have said all I can think to say without confirming to the world how dumb I am or even worse clueless about the problem. I have to be in person looking over the vehicle and whatever it's making it sick in order to think things through. There are some times on the internet I find it very difficult to be good about helping without being stupid without being actually there looking the vehicle over.

    I hope in some small way this plants a seed somehow.

    Good luck to you.
     
  7. Heavyd

    Heavyd Road Train Member

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    F33 powers circuit 90C which is battery power to the brake pedal switch for the hydraulic brake system. After the brake switch, it goes to your diodes.
     
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  8. Mwwade

    Mwwade Bobtail Member

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    Thanks, I have tail lights. I checked the two brake light switches activated by the foot brake arm. One is hot, and the other one is dead. They are both new.
     
    Heavyd Thanks this.
  9. Mwwade

    Mwwade Bobtail Member

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    Well, that’s my problem, I have no 12v power to the top brake switch. F33 is dead at the fuse port no 12v to either side of the fuse block. Where does the 12v power come from. I did have continuity from the large wire in in f33 to the module on the master cylinder. The problem is the large wire produces no 12v.
     
  10. AModelCat

    AModelCat Road Train Member

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    I would double check that. Any hydraulic brake equipped truck I've ever driven the electric pump only ever engaged when the truck was off. A safety feature in case your engine stalls. Now if this truck has vacuum assisted brakes with a diesel engine then yes you need that pump to create vacuum since diesel engines have no vacuum.
     
    Goodysnap Thanks this.
  11. TonyChristian

    TonyChristian Bobtail Member

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    Mar 13, 2016
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    Hello Wade, did you get it figured out? I am in the same situation, on the same step. Whats next?



     
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