DDS race video

Over here the C16 has been a bit of a failure,there has only been about 100 imported into this country and they don't seem to last like a C15.
If you listen to CAT here the C16 is at its limits at 600/2050 and the block cant handle anymore.
If you listen to Great Lakes the 5.5 bore on the C16 is the best you can get thats why they build all there engines with a 5.5 bore.
In my opinion the C16 (to meet EPA rules) is making to much heat,the turbo is to small and to meet all these emission laws and stay in the 600hp club is to hard on the engine.
Im still not sure on the B manifold Im leaning towards the ported and coated one from Pittsburgh,I like the C16 and with a few more changes I think it will be a good engine.
Thats MY opinion though.......................Anyone else?????????

 

I think you are right about the heat and all the EPA rules. I wouldn't listen to Great Lakes though (heard to many bad things and no one there wanted to deal with me when I contacted them).

 

I was only using Great Lakes as an example,I wouldn't deal with them again also.
I did get a e-mail back from the last week though,when asking how much there injectors flow compared to the 59 marine injectors all they said was "We sell those injectors every day if your engine cant handle it there is something wrong with your engine not our injectors"
There after sales service sucks!!!!!!

 

I agree, the C16 doesnt last as well as the C15 in standard form, the main problem with the C16 is the longer stroke causes the liner to rock around more than the C15, this causes early liner fretting, once the liners frett down into the block a little you lose the crush on your head gasket fire ring and you get a head gasket failure. Interstingly the early 16 liter 3406Es (1MM and 5DS prefix) didn't suffer from this anywhere near as badly. I think poor factory block machining on the later C15, C16 engines might make the problem worse. We rebuild every C16 that comes through our shop before 800000km for this type of failure, however once you cut the liner seats, install stainless shims and get the liner protrusion correct you rarely see any problems after that.

I will also add the C16 tuned up properly out pulls anything else on the road by a fair way.

830hp are you sure you have the correct C16 turbo on your truck (reman part number should be 0R7924)?, we have a few that are tuned up pretty well and dont have any egt problems. We do wind the wastegate up a bit though to help control temps, also ditch the factory mufflers and put on sports mufflers will help bring egts down. A C16 can run to 575 degree C on the outlet side of the turbo with no problems.

 

Thats the same part number,we also adjusted the wastegate a little it lasted about 30k km and broke the shaft.
On a hill the EGTs are at 650*C at 1500rpm have changed the mufflers.
If you look back through the 18 wheelers threads I posted my dyno run
theres about 6 pages of it everything looked normal.
DDS did say a change of numbers on the FTS/FLS might improve things.
When I did the injector/turbo change I could keep the EGTs at 500*C about 38psi the higher the psi the higher the EGTs eg:43psi EGTs 600*C we are hard on turbo's over here lots of hills and stop/start driving unlike you guys staying on a steady pull for longer.

 

Are you sure you pyro is accurate? is the manifold blue? I have seen some pretty big fuel settings and dont have problems but like you said you guys are probably harder on the gear due to the hills.
What are your air filters like? blocked air filters will cause high pyro temp.
The failed turbo shaft after winding up the wastegate is mostly bad luck, while winding up the wastegate does increase shaft speed if the turbo was balanced properly in the first place it will be fine. Normally we only wind the wastegate up 3 to 4 psi, thats plenty and wont damage the turbo. I have seen C15s with the wastegate blocked off from new do 800000km with no problems, others dont fair so well.... its a bit luck of the draw.

 

I know its a daily driver but if he had a Allison behind it that truck would be alot quicker (can we say 10's) there is an old better R model with a 5spd running in the 12's

 

The pyro was out put a new one in and the heat is still up there.Yes there is a blue tinge to the manifold,even when running on rolling hills it stays on 550*C.
I have twin air cleaners and replace annually about 140k km when the shaft snapped the turbo had only done 150k km but 13 months old and out of warranty so they tried to make me pay for it.
From what Ive heard about the wastegate hose you can do it to a C15 but not a C16.
All up its had 8 turbo's the problems have been,soft wastegates,exhaust heat shields breaking,snapped shaft thats why I was looking for someone to fix this problem and Great Lakes said they could.
The new turbo/injectors where working well till the head gasket went but at .002 I'm not surprised.
There is something causing this heat CAT have given up but I will find it DDS might be on to something he is trying I will have to wait and see.

 

I dont recomend blocking the wastegate hose on either C15 or C16 but winding the wastegate up is ok for both. There is an adjustable wastegate kit for the C15 but it also fits the C16.
It really sounds like something is being missed with your truck, does it seem to go better than a 600 should? the fuel setting may be the cause but its hard to say. I assume they've check for intake leaks, etc? did they measure exhaust backpressure on the dyno.
I have maybe 30 C16s that come though our workshop on a regular basis and the only ones that have constant exhaust temp problems are the Argosys but thats a truck design problem.

 

I have had the after cooler checked that many times Ive lost count,back pressure was checked and its fine.
It has no problems passing C15s and will pass other C16s but wont get the 620 Cummins.
When I ordered this truck I spec-ed it heavy,big radiator,gearbox and 100 tonne GCM so it should be getting more air than a Argosy.
I will put the other parts back in after I get a cam and new ECM.