Firearms N The Road

Discussion in 'Trucker Legal Advice' started by nghthwk, Jan 11, 2007.

  1. cplmac2

    cplmac2 Heavy Load Member

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    Nov 10, 2008
    Watford City, ND
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    I called the Iowa branch of the FMCSA today to get some clarification on carrying a firearm in a CMV. I specifically asked them if there was any code in the FMCSR that addressed firearms one way or another and he told me unequivocally NO. He said there are NO federal regulations in the FMSCR regarding right to carry in a CMV either for or against, and that it is their official position that it is a state by state matter. For most drivers I think the law is moot as most companies seem to forbid it. Considering the routes most freight runs it seems like it would be difficult if not impossible to carry legally. Chicago in particular would be impossible as it's illegal to transport any firearm in city limits that is not registered with the city, and if a firearm has been transported illegally through the city limits it can never be registered in the city. I know there are enough crazy gun laws out there to make it all but impossible to carry as a CMV operator traveling nationally.
     
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  3. torque

    torque Light Load Member

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    Dec 2, 2006
    Ohio
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    All I have to say is anyone who says drivers should not arm themselves for protection has not EVER made a delivery to places like Chicago,Atlanta,Birmingham,LA,NYC,Newark NJ,ect.. or at least not after dark.Sometimes you have no choice as whether or not you can park at a truck stop.Sometimes it's at a dark unsecured open lot at a customer because you made it by the skin of your teeth on the log book and the nearest truck stop/secured parking is 15 or 20 miles away.Lock(the doors) and Load(your weapon) and seatbelt the doors shut and get some rest. Yes in the International 9400i you can loop the seatbelt thru the doorhandle and buckle it and you will NOT get the door open w/o breaking the window =]
     
  4. n4mgr

    n4mgr Light Load Member

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    Nov 22, 2007
    Silver City, NM
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    Here is the result of an email I sent to the NC Highway Patrol Motor Carrier Enforcement;

    Mr. Robertson,

    Thank you for your questions. The operator of a Commercial Motor Vehicle would be required to follow the applicable state law in regards to the carrying of a concealed weapon. I have included below two (2) North Carolina General Statutes that should help answer the questions you have:

    § 14‑269. Carrying concealed weapons.
    (a) It shall be unlawful for any person willfully and intentionally to carry concealed about his person any bowie knife, dirk, dagger, slung shot, loaded cane, metallic knuckles, razor, shurikin, stun gun, or other deadly weapon of like kind, except when the person is on the person's own premises.
    (a1) It shall be unlawful for any person willfully and intentionally to carry concealed about his person any pistol or gun except in the following circumstances:
    (1) The person is on the person's own premises.
    (2) The deadly weapon is a handgun, and the person has a concealed handgun permit issued in accordance with Article 54B of this Chapter or considered valid under G.S. 14‑415.24.
    (3) The deadly weapon is a handgun and the person is a military permittee as defined under G.S. 14‑415.10(2a) who provides to the law enforcement officer proof of deployment as required under G.S. 14‑415.11(a).
    (b) This prohibition shall not apply to the following persons:
    (1) Officers and enlisted personnel of the armed forces of the United States when in discharge of their official duties as such and acting under orders requiring them to carry arms and weapons;
    (2) Civil and law enforcement officers of the United States;
    (3) Officers and soldiers of the militia and the national guard when called into actual service;
    (4) Officers of the State, or of any county, city, town, or company police agency charged with the execution of the laws of the State, when acting in the discharge of their official duties;
    (5) Sworn law‑enforcement officers, when off‑duty, provided that an officer does not carry a concealed weapon while consuming alcohol or an unlawful controlled substance or while alcohol or an unlawful controlled substance remains in the officer's body.
    (b1) It is a defense to a prosecution under this section that:
    (1) The weapon was not a firearm;
    (2) The defendant was engaged in, or on the way to or from, an activity in which he legitimately used the weapon;
    (3) The defendant possessed the weapon for that legitimate use; and
    (4) The defendant did not use or attempt to use the weapon for an illegal purpose.
    The burden of proving this defense is on the defendant.
    (b2) It is a defense to a prosecution under this section that:
    (1) The deadly weapon is a handgun;
    (2) The defendant is a military permittee as defined under G.S. 14‑415.10(2a); and
    (3) The defendant provides to the court proof of deployment as defined under G.S. 14‑415.10(3a).
    (c) Any person violating the provisions of subsection (a) of this section shall be guilty of a Class 2 misdemeanor. Any person violating the provisions of subsection (a1) of this section shall be guilty of a Class 2 misdemeanor for the first offense. A second or subsequent offense is punishable as a Class I felony.
    (d) This section does not apply to an ordinary pocket knife carried in a closed position. As used in this section, "ordinary pocket knife" means a small knife, designed for carrying in a pocket or purse, that has its cutting edge and point entirely enclosed by its handle, and that may not be opened by a throwing, explosive, or spring action. [FONT=Times New (W1)](Code, s. 1005; Rev., s. 3708; 1917, c. 76; 1919, c. 197, s. 8; C.S., s. 4410; 1923, c. 57; Ex. Sess. 1924, c. 30; 1929, cc. 51, 224; 1947, c. 459; 1949, c. 1217; 1959, c. 1073, s. 1; 1965, c. 954, s. 1; 1969, c. 1224, s. 7; 1977, c. 616; 1981, c. 412, s. 4; c. 747, s. 66; 1983, c. 86; 1985, c. 432, ss. 1‑3; 1993, c. 539, s. 163; 1994, Ex. Sess., c. 24, s. 14(c); 1995, c. 398, s. 2; 1997‑238, s. 1; 2003‑199, s. 2; 2005‑232, ss. 4, 5; 2005‑337, s. 1; 2006‑259, s. 5(a).)[/FONT]


    § 14‑415.11. Permit to carry concealed handgun; scope of permit.
    (a) Any person who has a concealed handgun permit may carry a concealed handgun unless otherwise specifically prohibited by law. The person shall carry the permit together with valid identification whenever the person is carrying a concealed handgun, shall disclose to any law enforcement officer that the person holds a valid permit and is carrying a concealed handgun when approached or addressed by the officer, and shall display both the permit and the proper identification upon the request of a law enforcement officer. In addition to these requirements, a military permittee whose permit has expired during deployment may carry a concealed handgun during the 90 days following the end of deployment and before the permit is renewed provided the permittee also displays proof of deployment to any law enforcement officer.
    (b) The sheriff shall issue a permit to carry a concealed handgun to a person who qualifies for a permit under G.S. 14‑415.12. The permit shall be valid throughout the State for a period of five years from the date of issuance.
    (c) A permit does not authorize a person to carry a concealed handgun in the areas prohibited by G.S. 14‑269.2, 14‑269.3, 14‑269.4, and 14‑277.2, in an area prohibited by rule adopted under G.S. 120‑32.1, in any area prohibited by 18 U.S.C. § 922 or any other federal law, in a law enforcement or correctional facility, in a building housing only State or federal offices, in an office of the State or federal government that is not located in a building exclusively occupied by the State or federal government, a financial institution, or on any other premises, except state‑owned rest areas or state‑owned rest stops along the highways, where notice that carrying a concealed handgun is prohibited by the posting of a conspicuous notice or statement by the person in legal possession or control of the premises. It shall be unlawful for a person, with or without a permit, to carry a concealed handgun while consuming alcohol or at any time while the person has remaining in his body any alcohol or in his blood a controlled substance previously consumed, but a person does not violate this condition if a controlled substance in his blood was lawfully obtained and taken in therapeutically appropriate amounts.
    (d) A person who is issued a permit shall notify the sheriff who issued the permit of any change in the person's permanent address within 30 days after the change of address. If a permit is lost or destroyed, the person to whom the permit was issued shall notify the sheriff who issued the permit of the loss or destruction of the permit. A person may obtain a duplicate permit by submitting to the sheriff a notarized statement that the permit was lost or destroyed and paying the required duplicate permit fee. [FONT=Times New (W1)](1995, c. 398, s. 1; c. 507, s. 22.1(c); c. 509, s. 135.3(e); 1997, c. 238, s. 6; 2000‑140, s. 103; 2000‑191, s. 5; 2005‑232, s. 3.)[/FONT]

    Please contact me at the telephone number below and we can further discuss the questions you have about what is considered "plain-view."

    Thank you,

    Lieutenant W. A. Hook
    Motor Carrier Enforcement Administration
    North Carolina State Highway Patrol
    919-715-8683




     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2009
    sodbuster03 Thanks this.
  5. n4mgr

    n4mgr Light Load Member

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    Nov 22, 2007
    Silver City, NM
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    I spoke with Lt. Hook just now and he says(paraphrased) that if you carry in a holster in plain-view, you should announce to the officer that you have the weapon and where it is. Do not remove the weapon and place it on the seat or dash during the stop or handle the weapon in any way. If you want to have it under the bunk in a case or something that is better and you should inform law enforcement of it's presence, though not required. The Lt. was very cordial and I definitely appreciate him informing me/us of NC's stance on firearms in CMV's. The guy's with Motor Carrier Enforcement are not the bad guys. Their job is to keep us and the general public safe from drivers and companies who either don't maintain their equipment and drivers who for whatever reason drive when they shouldn't. I do and will continue to carry in the truck, though likely under the bunk from now on. We really don't need a firearm while we are driving down the road, but there will always be those truck stops where you will at least feel safer with one beside the bunk. I am permited to conceal in 35 different states and have never had an issue with concealed carry in a truck. Also, In New Mexico, Your vehicle is considered an extension of your home. It doesn't matter who actually owns the vehicle. You are allowed to conceal a weapon anywhere in the vehicle including on your person in the vehicle. You can also carry openly in or out of the vehicle. This goes for Colorado as well with the exception of Denver. One other thing, NO CARRY without a permit inside a business that sales alchohol for off premises consumption in NM. Also, NO CARRY at all in a business that sales alchohol for on-premises consumption in NM. Visit, Open Carry.org or USA Carry.com for more information.

    Just remember, There are NO federal laws restricting firearms in vehicles and there are only a few states that restrict firearms, though none have CMV specific laws regarding firearms.


    For the record, I am not a lawyer
     
    crazyhorse1 Thanks this.
  6. SLIDER999

    SLIDER999 Light Load Member

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    May 11, 2008
    PORT RICHEY, FL
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    :biggrin_2555:I was going to mention it but you just did, U can get a multi state concealrd weapons permit. Maybe u can mention more about the process required to secure one. That seems the route to go. Recentley in Tampa a trucker got snuffed late one night waiting for a customer to open his doors for delivery. Sounds of gunshots heard, no witnesses. He was discovered when it became daylight. As the DEPRESSION deepens anarchy will reign. There won't be enough cops to contain it even after they impose martial law & start filling all the detention centers. Also, imagine if Mexico collapses & they surge norhtward to the tunes of Reconquistra
    while we surge in Afghanistan!:biggrin_25510:
     
  7. n4mgr

    n4mgr Light Load Member

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    Nov 22, 2007
    Silver City, NM
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    With my New Mexico and non-resident Utah permit I am covered in 35 of 48 states. In NM we have to tak a 15 hr. class with a written test and range time, the class generally cost between $65 and $100 here and the permit is $100. The Utah non-resident requires a 4 hour class which generally cost between $50 and $75 and the permit from BCI cost $65.25. I can recommend 2 places in the Salt Lake/Ogden area to take the class if needed. Also, Texas issues non-resident permits and are good in a lot of states. I chose UT because Texas has this silly law that says you are guilty of a crime if your gun prints(meaning if someone can see even the outline of the gun), I just chose to drive to SLC for my permit. Whatever you do, if your home state has "shall issue" ccw permits and you qualify, get one. If you happen to pass through SLC, take the time to take their 4 hr. class and get that one as well(just because it seems to be the easiest to get) and go from there. Also, find a good hiding spot in your rig where no one but you can possibly find it. This comes in handy when your in Commifornia, New Jersistan, New York or Canada. Also, KNOW THE LAWS in the states you drive through. There is a book called, "[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][SIZE=+1]The Traveler's Guide to the Firearm Laws of the Fifty States [/SIZE][/FONT]by J. Scott Kappas, Esq." Get this book ASAP if you carry and make sure your with the boundaries of the law. Bolt a safe/strongbox underneath your bunk and keep your passport and stuff there as well as your gun when not going to Canada. If going to Canada, there are options, though none cheap. If you want info regarding Canada, contact me directly due to concerns I have about posting this info for law enforcement to find. Your best course of action, REFUSE TO CROSS THE BORDER INTO CANADA.


    BTW, I forgot to directly answer the question. To get a permit you take a class, fill out an application, get your fingerprints taken and send a check or money order to the state agency responsible for ccw in the state your getting permitted in. Check this out for further info, UTAH BCI and the best class I know of and cheapest as well is here at myutahccw.com
    If you have any further questions feel free to ask.
     
  8. chipperi

    chipperi Bobtail Member

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    Mar 24, 2009
    Piney Flats, TN
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    Hey guys I am new here, But I do have a TN Handgun Carry permit. With trucking I can see a few problems.

    You cant carry in states like MD NY NJ CA and one or two others as they don't honor out of state permits.

    If you are delivering or picking up from properties that are posted. You can usually keep in in the truck but cant carry it.

    Security if you have to park your truck unattended.

    Try handgunlaw.us they have all of the states laws.

    We had a trucker near by me a while back That shot someone who smashed his window and tried to crawl in while the driver was sleeping. No charges pressed under Tn's castle doctrine. Good Guys 1 Bad Guys 0
     
  9. RIBS

    RIBS Bobtail Member

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    Feb 22, 2009
    Ward , Arkansas
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  10. kwray

    kwray Medium Load Member

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    Jun 14, 2009
    Pennsylvania
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    There are no federal laws regarding concealed carry licenses. There is no federally issued license to carry that is available to a private citizen who is not a federal agent. Most states issue a license to carry, how easy it is to get depends on the state. Someone said something about carrying in states above NY but in Vermont you don't need a license to carry whether you are a resident or not. If youre 21 or older it is legal to carry concealed as long as you don't have a criminal record. As far as carrying any other type of firearm that depends on the state. The Traveler's Guide to the Firearms Laws of the Fifty States has a ton of information on such things. But really the biggest concern would be what would the company say? My guess is "youre fired"...
     
  11. roadrunna985

    roadrunna985 Bobtail Member

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    May 25, 2009
    ellenwod,ga.
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    i have a pocession of a firearm on my DAC '02,but i wasnt in a commericial vehicle mite that disappear after 7years
     
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