New owner operator, have issue with clutch

Discussion in 'Trucks [ Eighteen Wheelers ]' started by Eltigre363, Aug 15, 2019.

  1. Eltigre363

    Eltigre363 Bobtail Member

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    Long story short, I began trucking in the summer of 2014 with a tri axle dump truck, fast forward to today, I recently bought a 2004 Kenworth W900 with a Cat C15 475HP engine with a 8LL transmission and 4.10 rears 7 axle super dump. I've had the truck for about two months now and besides basic maintenance, she has performed well despite her age. The truck has about 690k miles and the clutch/master/slave cylinder are original according to my old boss when he bought this truck new all of those years ago and I never had this issue for the year I drove this truck before I bought it for a very good deal. Now, this issue began on Monday, when I take off from a dead stop in 1st gear and even low gear to a somewhat lesser degree, if I let the clutch out like normal, the truck seems to jerk/bounce like as if I let the clutch out too fast when it's about half way depressed still. This happens more frequently when I take off going uphill and have even stalled a few times because I'm feathering both the clutch and accelerator to avoid that sudden jerking/bouncing motion and to prevent the clutch from burning. The gears shift fine, they don't pop out, there is no clutch slippage, the clutch brake engages fine, the air pressure is normal and there are no leaks, the PTO engages/disengages fine and I also smelled a hint of what seems to be hydraulic/brake fluid when this first began inside the cab shortly after taking off. This happens when I'm loaded, since I usually take off in 2nd gear when empty, the clutch behaves nearly normally with a hint of that issue at times. At times, when I'm maneuvering in tight places, the clutch feels normal but then sometimes, it feels as if it's pushing back against my foot and this only happens when I'm in 1st gear and such going really slow entering construction projects and such. I inspected hydraulic fluid used for the PTO/bed and it's all in working order with no leaks and operate fine when dumping my loads. My initial thoughts are that could it be the master/slave cylinder that's going bad? My father is an auto mechanic and also a trucker but he is across the US right now, so he isn't around to take a look at the problem and won't be in my region for another three weeks.

    I'm barely beginning to learn how to do all the basic maintenance myself but I would like to know what this issue could be before I take the truck to a shop and avoid being ripped off and such.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2019
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  3. 201

    201 Road Train Member

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    That jerking upon takeoff loaded sounds like a warped flywheel or disc. It's often overlooked when doing a clutch job. Try no throttle at all, in the lowest gear, it's the only way short of resurfacing the flywheel. BTW, I felt that 8LL was the most worthless transmission I ever shifted.
     
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  4. Dino soar

    Dino soar Road Train Member

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    I am sure that it could be a number of things, but I would check the motor mounts.

    If the motor and transmission Flex too much you can feel that in your clutch pedal.
     
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  5. Roberts450

    Roberts450 Road Train Member

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    Someone will correct me if Im wrong but Im pretty sure that W900's along with all the other older narrow cab KW's have all mechanical clutch mechanisms. Meaning no master/slave cylinders, but the bushing can wear out and cause inconsistent clutch engagements.
     
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  6. Eltigre363

    Eltigre363 Bobtail Member

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    The clutch is original and once the truck is moving, even double clutching feels normal, that issue happens when taking off from a dead stop. If the truck is in motion, even when I downshift to first gear, there is no slippage of the clutch and such as long as the truck in in motion and I have no issues shifting and such in heavy traffic as long as I don't stop on an uphill. Also, when I said about that jerking motion, it feels as if the truck is trying to stall and that jerking/sudden bouncing motion happens once and not bouncing like a lowrider car or rodeo ride. I mean that when I'm taking off with my feathering of the clutch, it will feel like it suddenly wants to take off as if letting the clutch out too fast to stall a vehicle when one is learning to drive a manual if that makes sense to you. One other thing I didn't mention is that the clutch peddle sometime doesn't quite depress normally meaning that sometimes, you can kinda feel a clicking kinda feeling when depressing the clutch. Hard to try to put to words when it's much better to drive the truck loaded to feel what's wrong.

    What about that smell of hydraulic/brake fluid I smell inside the cab shortly after this happens when I take off up a hill?

    On the 8LL note, it's not too bad when you go into muddy construction projects and such, I can see why many dump trucks have them. Though, I would have preferred at least a 13 speed or 18 I drove before buying this truck. But this 8LL allows me to cruise at 65-70 without having the engine screaming.

    When I get the chance, I'll have the shop take a look at the mounts you mentioned. It's not a serious issue as it's relatively minor push back against my foot.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2019
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  7. Eltigre363

    Eltigre363 Bobtail Member

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    Hmm, that sounds reasonable because there are times when the truck takes off normally, so it's random I guess.
     
  8. Rideandrepair

    Rideandrepair Road Train Member

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    Have you taken the inspection plate off yet? If not, take it off, look/ feel around for broken damper springs, layin around in bell housing. Over time they get loose, or disk gets rusty, they fall out. If you find some springs. You need a clutch. Meanwhile baby it.
     
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  9. jamespmack

    jamespmack Road Train Member

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    Skipped over a bunch, but the input shaft is worn causing clutch disks to hang up. Time for a clutch and a master install kit.
     
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  10. 201

    201 Road Train Member

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    I've had those springs in the disc break, several times, and I don't think that's the issue here, as the clutch lost all pedal. I replaced 3 clutches, 2 on my Western Star, 1 on my Pete, everytime, it was the disc springs. On the 4th clutch, I said, what gives here, I'm no clutch eater, the parts guy said, well, you can try a springless disc for extreme duty, I said lay it on me, brother, never had an issue again.
     
  11. Snow Monster

    Snow Monster Medium Load Member

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    Agreed, could be a number of things causing the bouncing.

    Bouncing that I've experienced has been from warped or overheated surfaces on flywheel and/or clutch, the type of clutch used, and a confused ECM.

    Some heavy duty clutches, button type, will do that from new.
    These are severe service clutches are not meant to be finessed and can't be.
    As soon as they start to grab you have to release them quick, or the bouncing starts as the clutch begins to grab causing a near stall of the engine.
    Had one of these in a brand new truck that I pulled trains with at 135,000 lbs, hated it.

    Not a Cat, but drove a truck with an N-14 that would from time to time start bouncing violently when the clutch was engaged from a dead stop.
    The ECM got confused and started searching for the proper fuel rate causing the front end to bounce up and down like a low rider, had to be quick to depress the clutch again to stop the bouncing, was very embarrassing.

    About the clutch pushing back at you, if it's not the motor mounts you need to open her up, could be a bad release bearing, or other.
    If the rubber isolators have been contaminated with oil they will be spongy, allowing the engine to move around a lot more than normal.
    A friend of mine cheaped out on motor mount rubber isolators with his 64 Dodge and the first time he put the pedal to the floor the engine moved forward and the fan took out his radiator.

    Might also be a worn out release bearing, or other internal part.
    Good luck, hope it's a cheap fix for you.
     
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