06 volvo 780, 530hp isx problems

Discussion in 'Trucks [ Eighteen Wheelers ]' started by fuelofire, Sep 23, 2010.

  1. fuelofire

    fuelofire Bobtail Member

    Sep 20, 2010
    Mc Minnville, TN
    Ok gentlmen, and ladies if there are any out there that know anything about diesel mechanics. My Volvo runs hot in 75 degree weather and the hotter it gets the hotter it runs. Hills are killing my temp gauge and if it's 85 or hotter my truck will overheat on a 5 mile 5% grade. I do what I can and just back it down or stop alltogether if needed cause that's all I can do. I've been to numerous cummins and volvo dealers trying to correct the problem with the most popular responce to me is "it didn't log a overheat incident in the computer." Then they take my money and tell me there's nothing wrong with my truck. Or, they'll tell me somethings bad and replace it and then... like magic my money disapears but the problem doesn't. I've currently went through 2 thermostats, radiator, intercooler, some misc sensors, and a water pump. I Had the turbo rebuilt too due to bearings wearing out, I won't rule out that it's the cause, but not very suspect because there appears to be nothing wrong with my fuel mileage, my exaust gas temp, boost psi or pulling power. I due have what I'm calling excessive engine soot coming out of the stack which everyone should know has somthing to do with fuel not completely burning. I know low cylinder compression, leak in my intake, faulty injectors, faulty fuel pump and EGR valve/cooler could be suspect. but, I don't have a noticable drop in overall fuel economy or power which would support any of the above problems, I don't have any fault codes registering so I've been told by the same guys that arn't fixing my engine that there's no way an EGR would go bad with out something showing on the computer fault diagnostics some where. I'm running out of money and I'm afraid of a breakdown away from my house for a prolonged period of time. I can't keep guessing and I'm looking for guidance and Idea's from those that have more knowledge about these engines than I do. Oh, yeah, Cummins and volvo customer service sucks, I've emailed them all the problems I've had with this truck/engine and all the problems I've had with cummins and volvo techs, and they emailed me back that I should take it to a dealer for service because they can't diagnose via email or phone... grrrr... I didn't want a diagnoses, I wanted an explination on why they charge $110/hour and all they do is release monkey's to change parts.
    Thanks for your time
  2. MM71

    MM71 Medium Load Member

    Jun 28, 2008
    Simple question, anybody replaced the fan clutch yet? I had one replaced at 200k and just recently at 380k. First one grenaded, second one would work fine ... but would slip and I'd get hot running up hills.
    fuelofire Thanks this.
  3. country29

    country29 Medium Load Member

    Feb 27, 2010
    how about checking the temp guage?
    fuelofire Thanks this.
  4. scsapril69

    scsapril69 Bobtail Member

    Feb 4, 2010
    Eden NC
    I have a 2004 Volvo 670 with a 475 ISX that had the same over heating problems. My truck idled at 200 degrees and 208 to 215 degrees while driving in out door temperatures above 55 degrees. Due to being cracked, I replaced the stock 3 core plastic radiator for an after market all metal 4 core radiator. The mechanics told me that my truck was fine and thats normal operating temperature for ISX. My fan stayed on all the time and killed my fuel millage. To make a long story short, that was B/S! I did some research and found out that the stock thermostat that Cummins made for these engines were faulty. Poor design! After a short while the thermostat would stick. Cummins came out with a new design and it works great. I took mine out and examined it and seen for my self, the design flaw. Installed the newly redesigned 180 degree Cummins thermostat in August 2010. My ISX temperature now operates at 175 to 190 on flat ground while being gross at 79,000 lbs. On mountainous terrain, with the same weight, the temp will hit 210 and drop back below 200 with in 30 seconds after the fan comes on. I hope that this will help you!

    PS, the Volvo D engines uses the same thermostat also. I met an owner operator at the Volvo dealership with heating problems with his 06 780 and we compared thermostats. Same identical thermostats, we both bought the new design stats.
    fuelofire Thanks this.
  5. fuelofire

    fuelofire Bobtail Member

    Sep 20, 2010
    Mc Minnville, TN
    I appreciate your advise, the fan clutch is fine and operating normally. The fan kicks in at 210 and depending on outside temp and the weight of my load is weather or not it will go down, maintain or rise. I would be okay if it was maintaining, but, 75-80 degree's and it climbs close to the red? As far as the accuracy of the gauge, I had idiots at a CAT dealer in Sioux Falls tell me it was 10 degrees off on the high side.... it wasn't, they're just fools because I probed the temp before they checked my truck on there dyno and it was withing 2 degrees as best I can tell (gauge is 40 degree ticks). I have no Idea why they told me it was off 10 degrees and then they told me the fan turns on like it's supposed to at 210 degrees, which is exactly what my guage is reading when the fan turns on. stupid, and even after we had that discusion they didn't want to admit they were idiots.

    As for the thermostat, I did change it out 2 times. first time my thermostate was sticking and causeing the engine to overheat. after that my truck ran normal for a couple of months and then this stuff started and I changed it again just to be sure. 1st one was in february, 2nd one in june. funny that I supplied the cummins dealer in Sioux Falls the thermostat and gaskets/seals and they supplied the labor... They tried to charge me $500 just for the labor. I told them this was insane because it only took 45 mins and there's no way a book is going to call for 4 hours labor on a thermostat. they gave me a break, and only charged me $400 plus tax. See the perdicament I'm in? I bet if I was a big corporation they wouldn't be trying to do this to me. I pay I pay and I pay way more than my fair share and these idiots don't give one #### result. Then on top of it I write to cummins about my problems and they ignore all the stuff I tell them about these bad cummins dealers and idiot techs and all they do is tell me that they're "not able to diagnose problems via phone or internet and that I should take my truck to a cummins service center for correct diagnoses." GREAT RIGHT? I swear the more I have to deal with cummins the more I want to go to there cookeville plant and smash cars in the lot with my truck.
  6. Krooser

    Krooser Road Train Member

    Jul 25, 2010
    Have you checked the coolant for combustion gasses? Maybe you have a leaky head gasket?
  7. fuelofire

    fuelofire Bobtail Member

    Sep 20, 2010
    Mc Minnville, TN
    No, I have not checked the coolant for evidence of combustion by-products. I'm not sure how plausable it would be for combustion gasses in the coolant to point to a cause of overheating for the reason that there are no other symptoms that would definatly be there if there was a leaky compression ring on the head gasket. I could be totally wrong but let me go through my thought process on this one.

    There are few places where exaust and coolant can mix. head, block, egr valve and some turbos which I've been told the ISX does use water to help cool the turbo. Most, if not all of the senarious would have other symptoms as well. If the turbo leaked water I would have evidence of a coolant leak, depending on severity of leak I would smell antifeeze in the exaust and might even see white smoke. My engine doesn't use coolant, there is no smell in exaust or white smoke, and I don't believe there's enough coolant running in the turbo that would warrent such a dramatic rise in coolant temp when at full power if there was a small enough mixture to not have noticable coolant lose. The same goes for the EGR valve. The Head gasket is easier for me to dismis because 1) I have no loss in power 2)no white smoke visable 3)no coolant usage 4) I have my oil analyzed regularly and the most they find is excessive engine soot. Head Gasket or head failure, cylinder wall failure of some sort would have coolant leaking in enough places that it would be obious either on the ground or in my oil.

    I'm still working on this issue coming up with new senarios. I've been introduced to a senario with a restricted exaust system (clogged with soot) that would cause overheating and excessive soot. Unfortunatly in my thinking, it should also cause High exaust temps, which doesn't happen but none the less I ordered a new muffler for $158. I figured it won't hurt, it can only make things better and help me narrow my search. By far it will be the cheapest shot in the dark that I've done and basically a whole lot cheaper than letting cummins or volvo charge me $105-$115/hour to do the same thing I'm doing...which is guessing. I'm also going to run the overhead, not sure if that will produce any results, but, it's been a year since that's been done and overheating problem or not it still needs to be done.

    Another Idea I would like to put out is the possibility of the wrong radiator being installed in a truck. Anyone out there familiar with the VN series of trucks? Does volvo use the same radiator in all VN's? what about interchangeability between the OTR tractors and day cab VN's. What about different radiators for different engines used in the VN series? Does volvo use different radiators for the D-11,13,16, ISX engines? What about interchangability with older trucks Radiators? Does anyone know what the recomended cooling capacity is for an ISX, I have a friend at international and he tells me that a temperature drop of 8-14 degrees for navistar engines is normal and when I dyno'd my truck they told me my radiator was 12 degrees. They could be wrong, and were only using a laser to messure surface temps at the radiator inlet and outlet, but how likely would a core temp be much different in a 3 inch cooling pipe made of some type of brass?

    Those are my thoughts at this moment, would like to know what everyone thinks? Especially if you have any knowledge about volvo's VN series
  8. CaliforniaOvernight

    CaliforniaOvernight Light Load Member

    May 14, 2010
    Pacific Grove, CA
    Well, if you ask me, you got 2 separate problems:

    1. bad coolant temparature reading on your dashboard since nobody seems to be able to confirm it. VN's dasboard clusters are known for mysterious problems. I wouldn't be surprised if Volvo isn't using ECM values but have it's own sensor somewhere. That would explain probably why overheating is not being logged into egine ECM. Because it's doesn't exist

    2. Smoking on ISX mostly comes from sticking EGR-Valve, but is should thrown codes... Unless its within some tolerance, maybe? How bad is the smoking? Also, I think I heard that Volvo doesn't bring CHECK-ENGINE light even if you disconnect the very EGR-Valve (not sure about it, but seems that Volvo does things differently than US manufacturers).

    Anyway, in the long run it would pay to invest into RoadRelay (independent Cummins dashboard computer and great) or even INSITE software. If you run in the West we could try get together and plug in mine computer (thats what you need heve done, real time dyno)
  9. fuelofire

    fuelofire Bobtail Member

    Sep 20, 2010
    Mc Minnville, TN
    Well, the winter gave me a break from having to worry about this problem....until now, since the temps have warmed. As for my temp gauge, its accurate, I just probed my coolant and near the thermostate housing. If anything id say the coolant is 5 degrees hotter than what my gage says, but that's hard to tell on my gauge. What's it matter? Overheating is overheating. Anyways, back in feb my 9 month old radiator started to leak, so I ended up replacing it again went from a all metal 3 core to an all metal 4 core from the same manufacture cos they gave me a deal on the upgrade as opposed to warrentieing to old one. But, since i'm posting again u can guess that its made no difference.
    In another response to the smoking issue, its not to bad, what makes it bad is when the coolant is so hot it can't sufficiently cool the EGR valve and the valve then sticks. So far temps haunt gotten that hot yet. Tomorrow i'll be taping my temp probes to the inlet and outlet of the radiator to in an attempt to verify this radiators cooling efficiency. I noticed that briefly that the temp of the top of the radiator near the inlet was about 40 degrees cooler than the coolant. I'M certain that's not the actuals coolant temp in that area cause there is only an 18 inch coolant hose between the thermostat housing and the inlet of the radiator. Which brings me to this question... is it 40 degrees cooler because the metal top of the radiator is dissipating the heat that quickly, or is my radiator made from a cheap metal that's insulating and not allowing the heat to disapate? I guess ill find out more tomorrow when I probe the inlet and owlet while operating on the highway for a few hours. Any other ideas?
  10. bladehate

    bladehate Bobtail Member

    Jul 27, 2009
    Syracuse, NY
    I know you said the fan works, but I had a volvo come into the shop with your exact problem. after everything was said and done, the fan was coming on, but it was slipping so it wasn't working to its full potential. it kept getting worse and worse. eventually it got so bad that we could spin the fan around by hand when it was locked up, because the brakes were gone in it.
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