14 Hour Violation Due to Breakdown? Help!

Here is a real life example that I have done recently...

Start with fresh 11 and 14...

15 min pretrip and fuel. OnD
2 hours driving. DR
15 min shipper check in. OnD
6 hours shipper loading. OffD or SB
5 hours driving. DR
30 min break. OffD
4 hours driving. DR
30 min to eat. OffD
7.5 hours sleeping. SB

At this point I had completed the split berth, and had got back the 2 hours of driving and 2.5 hours (OnD + DR) of on duty time from the beginning of the previous day. But I didnt want to have to stop again in 2 hours, so this is what I then did...

2 hours to shower and eat. OffD

I had then satisfied BOTH the Split-Berth rule AND the 10 hour break rule... The 6 hours while getting loaded does not count against the 14. And I start the new day with full 11 and 14 hour clocks.

Compare this example to the guidlines I pointed out in my previous post and I think it will help clear things up for you.

 

Nah, PC could still work. "Seeking safe haven" is a valid remark that's passed scrutiny from the DOT for me in the past...

 

No it's no valid on many levels.
1. There is no guidance, regs, or faqs even that allow this. If you think there is, point it out. The only thign close is when the shipper/receiver has no avail parking. That was not the case here.
2. "Safe haven" is a hazmat term. The fact you are using it tells me you are clueless about pc and are simply listening to truck stop counter drivers that are just as clueless.
3. Just because you got away with it means you simply got away with it, not that it's legal.

 

ZVar people have been using "haven" instead of "place" a lot in error. Even myself. But I'm sure he meant place.

Why. if he is trying to get to a safe place, would PC not work? Does the guidance specifically say you have to be kicked out of somewhere? I know I've seen it say where traffic, or weather, or "Unforeseen events" happen.

 

Unfortunately there are two, and only two instances PC is valid to use when it's not truly personal.
1. After getting loaded/unloaded and there is no place to park onsite. The closest safe parking is all that's allowed. Note the after getting loaded/unloaded is a requirement. No mention of a breakdown.
2. Getting told to move by an LEO.

Those are the only two times a PC move is valid unless it's truly personal. One can rant on the"fairness" of that or not, I'm simply pointing out the regulations as written currently. There is no regulation, no law, no guidance, or even faq that would allow the driver to move via PC and it be a valid use of PC. Just because someone has gotten away with running illegally (and falsifying logs is illegal) doesn't mean it's a valid use.

You mention adverse conditions and weather. Unfortunately those are specific as well. I.e. breakdowns are not in the list of what an adverse condition is. And yes, the guidance doesn't state you have to be kicked out specifically. It does say after loading/unloading the closest safe place. The closest place would usually be the place you just unloaded/loaded at unless they don't have parking. (Not always, I agree, but usually)

All that said, I'm always willing to learn, so if someone can find a regulation, law, guidance or even faq that allows one to use PC after a breakdown I'm willing to update my knowledge.

 

Regarding the adverse driving condition. If I understand correctly, it can only be used to finish a trip that you would have been able to finish absent the condition. You are not supposed to use it just to drive further.

 

I swear some guys argue just for the sake of arguing.. I’ve been in closures at accident scenes . They tell you to drive to next available parking and note it . During a company audit nothing was said and my logs were picked ..

 

But again that is the "unforeseen event." Like weather delay. Not the same as a break down.

 

Look, man. I got pulled in for a level 1 after using it at some point, and I had this same discussion with DOT cats in Ohio that were combing everything over. The final consensus was that ELD makers are ####ing #########, and the term "safe haven" in regards to the remarks available to a driver in their electronic logs was referring to a safe location, NOT the technical term from 49 CFR. Hell, same #### happened on a completely different occasion with CHP, and they were ALSO willing to give me a pass on this one. 2 of the worst states in the country for dealing with the DOT, and they're both agreeing on something in the driver's favor? Gift horses, man; I say we don't look this one in the mouth

 

You can get as ticked off as you want. Simple fact is no matter how much it sucks, one cannot legally move the truck in the situation the op was in.
Will he get in trouble? Well that's up to the LEO and officer discretion.
To keep saying it's fine though, is helping no one. It's not fine as it's illegal.