2 hour off duty time

Discussion in 'Trucking Industry Regulations' started by revelation1911, May 24, 2012.

  1. Sly Fox

    Sly Fox Road Train Member

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    First, the OP is not discussing the traditional 8/2 split sleeper rules. Nor is the OP discussing the old 8 hour off-duty reset to get 10 hours of driving.

    The OP is discussing the NEW RULE that went into effect in February that allows a TEAM OPERATION to log up to two hours OFF-DUTY in the passenger seat immediately before or immediately after eight hours in the SLEEPER BERTH (WHILE THE TRUCK WAS BEING DRIVEN BY THE CO-DRIVER).


    The issue is:

    Driver A spent 10 straight hours in the sleeper. He wakes up and starts driving. Driver B is relieved of duty and sits in the passenger seat in Line 1 (which is now allowed). He can be there for up to two hours. Let's say he stays there for two hours chatting with Driver A.

    He goes into the sleeper. Ten minutes later, they blow a turbo and the truck limps into a shop. Now, Driver B has logged 2 hours off-duty in the passenger seat (again THIS IS ALLOWED UNDER THE NEW RULES), and as the rules dictate, went into the sleeper to start his eight hours there. HOWEVER, the trucks in the shop. The conundrum becomes: Is he forceably required to log that he spent 8 hours in the sleeper while it is sitting in a service bay, or can he switch to off-duty and not violate the HOS with those two hours in the passenger seat? Because the rule allows it, but only if you then spend eight more in the sleeper. The problem is he CAN'T realistically expect to spend eight in the sleeper if the truck is now in a service bay and angry techs are telling his to vamoose if they want their truck to get looked at.

    The problem is the intent was legal, but something happened to change it.



    As with the 8/2 split sleeper, if your eight-hour is interrupted by off-duty time, you just spend two more hours Line 1/2 and you're perfectly legal. This new rule is ambiguous as nobody has really looked into what happens if you spend that passenger-seat time at the start of your 10-hour but then can't fulfill the eight hour sleeper portion.

    Again, this has NOTHING to do with the 8/2 split sleeper. This is a new rule that went into effect in February (the same time that off-duty time in a parked CMV, even laden, is now legal).

    If you are drivers, and you aren't aware that the MAJOR RULES that govern you had changed almost three months ago, I really think you need to keep an eye on your profession more.
     
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  3. revelation1911

    revelation1911 Heavy Load Member

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    Intent could mean ten different things to ten different people, so what is written is the biggest factor.
    The files below are taken today from FMSCA site. The pdf's are better for viewing.

    Scan # 1 details the the 2 hour passenger seat part in a moving vehicle and
    explains that the object is to keep vehicle moving as much as possible with
    driver 2 not in sleeper. ( Yeah who doesn't already do that?) #'s 3&4
    and we all know that being in a parked cmv is off duty now.

    Scan # 2 Item B clearly states that there is no change to the sleeper berth rule.

    Scan # 3 Question 25 addresses that off duty time may be combined with sleeper berth time to get eight consecutive hours.
    according to this there is no requiremnt for ANY sleeper berth time. So eight hours off duty is as good as eight hours sleeper berth.

    Scan # 4 shows two log pages of the same day period using the same fourteen hours of on duty time to maximize driving time.
    you would get fourteen hours of driving with only twelve hours on duty meaning you'd save two hours daily.

    Neither of my trucks has a sleeper so I look at make the best use of what I have.
    The situation of two drivers will only be temporary and I'm looking to make as best use of the Fourteen as I can.
    I was just seeing if anyone else has done this before? I have searched and find no refrence so it looks like I'll be the first to try it out.
    I don't need no help reading the FMSCA published rules.
    With what I have planned as posted I see it shoiuld hold up to roadside inspection or court if need be.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: May 26, 2012
  4. Roadmedic

    Roadmedic Road Train Member

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    The section that these questions are from, is section 395.1 which is the Sleeper Berth area.

    Any comments in that section are basically for a vehicle with a sleeper berth.

    Give it a shot if you want, but I will not draw attention.
     
  5. revelation1911

    revelation1911 Heavy Load Member

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    These pages aren't from the sleeper berth section.
    The first two are from the NEW HOS question, faq section and the last is the scope
    part of the HOS guidance section. It would be simpler if the beaurcrats would have just stated that you can log
    two hours in passenger seat of a team operation, but that would be too easy.
    I run by myself and it didn't matter anyway. Now I'm looking at letting another driver lease to me and pull my other trailer.
    With that said I'm not going to run anyone and not know if they can do the job or not, do it safely and compliantly
    Not to mention some people don't like the road and I don't want to set it in motion and driver decide he'd rather be at home.
    So I think I could run him a couple weeks with me and let him see if he wants to go OTR.
    This is why i need t make the best of time or hours.
     
  6. Roadmedic

    Roadmedic Road Train Member

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    Look back where you found them and you will find them referenced in section 395.1 and then look to see what the title is.
     
  7. RickG

    RickG Road Train Member

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    If that's the deal and it's only for a couple of weeks why not just run it as it would be legal with one driver and give him a more realistic look at what to expect ?
     
    Roadmedic Thanks this.
  8. revelation1911

    revelation1911 Heavy Load Member

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    I have been thinking about it that way too. Come tomorrow I'll make up my mind.
    The one thing I'm taking into consideration is if I/we were to get wrote a ticket, I don't mind going to court but would consider it
    unfair to have someone else to have to go too. This is why I'm looking for a issued opinion.
    Half the police don't know old rules except the ones they "use", much less new stuff.
    The big question is?? Is saving two hours a day going to matter?? It could be 550 miles in five days or one more day of running.
     
  9. revelation1911

    revelation1911 Heavy Load Member

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    Heres what I don't understand in general?
    The police use any trick they can to harrass us and take our money, I find ways to make their rules work for my/our benefit and everyone thinks something is wrong with that? I was told the samething when I found a way to sleep
    in my truck with no sleeper. Why do 99% of drivers feel they have to see it the polices way?
    Can we no longer think for ourselves and look at things outside the box?
    Do we think of ourselves as cattle that should be prodded along?
     
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