3406E Rear "Structure" Oil Leak

Discussion in 'Trucks [ Eighteen Wheelers ]' started by sailboatjim, Nov 28, 2015.

  1. sailboatjim

    sailboatjim Light Load Member

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    I took my 3406e to the mechanic the other day to change and replace the rear main seal and identify another oil leak that I haven't been able to find. I don't have any way to get the transmission out of the way or the tool to install the seal so I decided to farm this work out. I get a call from him on Tuesday and he tells me it has a automatically adjusting clutch in it that has to be caged to be removed and he could not get it caged because of several different reasons and so on and so forth so he was going to have to replace the clutch. Ok, whatever. It was acting very grabbie in the first place and he says the automatic adjusting clutch's do that. He doesn't like them. Wednesday he calls me and tells me that he replaced the clutch and the rear main seal a test drove it and it was still leaking like crazy in the "Structure area". He calls the "Structure" the portion in the rear of the motor that the transmission bolts to and it in turn bolts to the motor. I honestly didn't know this motor was setup this way but he tells me it's leaking in the gasket that ties the bell-housing to the rear oil pan and motor. Am I being BS ed here? He said the rear main was leaking too. I do have oil leaking down the oil pan rail and I thought it was going from the front of the engine to back but now I think it may have been going from back of the engine to front down the oil pan rail and leaking on the front axle. What thinks you?
     
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  3. Heavyd

    Heavyd Road Train Member

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    He may be right. You can certainly have oil leaks from inbetween the rear bell-housing and the engine block. What he is calling the rear structure, I would just call it the bell housing to block.
     
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  4. Caterpillar Cowboy

    Caterpillar Cowboy Heavy Load Member

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    Yep, when a Cat's structure really starts to let go, front or rear both are bad, it'll leak pretty good. Unless you can pull the transmission and what not yourself, it's bend over time!

    I had to have the front and rear structures done on my 96 Pete with an E model Cat in the last year and half.

    Knowing now what I know, If I had a truck without any documentation on the last time those buggers were done, if I had the transmission out for anything I would go ahead and have them do both the rear structure and rear main seal. The front is kinda a PITA in it'sself, as it sets behind all the front timing gear. No real sense in having it done along with anything else because there's nothing aside from the radiators, ATA, AC, etc so you won't save on the R&R labor like you would on the rear side.

    Also, when your front starts to go, don't listen to the guy that tells you 'just tighten the bolts up a bit'. That front timing case is like 1300 or so IIRC. I learned that one the hard way.

    Luckily, when Cat changed to the C-15 series motors they changed from the cork gasket to a metal gasket with a rubber impregnated 'o-ring' type of gasket, these seem to hold up much better.
     
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  5. sailboatjim

    sailboatjim Light Load Member

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    This is a 96 5ek here and I' guessing it's never been done before. It runs so good and gets good fuel mileage I wouldn't think of not doing it.
    I just want the leaks stopped. It wouldn't use a drop of oil if they were fixed. The truck sat for about a year and a half and I've been doing stuff like this ever since. I changed the rear rear pinion seal a few weeks ago.

    [​IMG]
     
  6. swaan

    swaan Road Train Member

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    It's called the flywheel housing.
    And yes they all leak over time.
    There is a thin paper gasket on the E models.
    That's why cat went to a O-rings to seal the structures on the 6nz and up.

    Still better then detroit , they don't use either. Just some goop. They always leak after 400,000 miles
     
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  7. BoxCarKidd

    BoxCarKidd Road Train Member

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    Another bad point other than down time is he probably want's to be paid twice. Most everything except Macks and Volvos can be ran and tested before the transmission is installed. I would argue the point even if you self diagnosed it he should have checked it before disassembly and trans installation. Maybe + 20%.
    I would not reinstall a self adjusting clutch and guarantee it to leave the shop.
    Engines are normally higher in the front and you probably have another leak.
     
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  8. Largecar359

    Largecar359 Road Train Member

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    Make sure the tech cuts you a deal. He should have picked off that leak on housing when he pulled trans back. It's a common issue, especially since the flywheel was out, that housing is fully exposed. I do agree with him on the self adjusting clutches, the life span on them are significantly shorter then manual adjust. See if he will work with you on labor costs. All the bolts should come right out since he already had them out.
    Sorry for the bad news man hope you get it squared away. On the plus side it's a good motor you have so I feel it's worth dumping money into.
     
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  9. sailboatjim

    sailboatjim Light Load Member

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    He blamed it on me because I told him to change the rear main which he said was leaking by the way. My note to him said that there are two leaks, the guy that rebuilt the motor told me the rear main was leaking so I was just going by what he said. I also mentioned to him in my note that there was another bad leak running down the pan rail and dripping on the front axle but I couldn't find where it was originating from. I could never find it. Apparently it running forward some of the time. I didn't know about this structure deal. That pan rail on the drivers side is very wet so it had to be coming from the structure area. I could not find anything leaking above the front end in the air compressor or higher area but it appeared to be leaking from that area even though everything there was dry.
     
  10. Ozdriver

    Ozdriver Heavy Load Member

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    The front and rear structures on CAT engines have a habit of fretting then leaking after many miles. I just did mine last year on my 3408. It's a big job. The aluminum flywheel housing has to be machined because for sure if it's been fretting it will be out of true. If the flywheel housing is fretting probably the front housing isn't far behind. The new gasket is a multi-layer metal gasket and I used Loctite 515 to seal it.
    The oil leak on mine was very hard to find and I ended up using this oil dye to find it. image.jpeg
     
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  11. sailboatjim

    sailboatjim Light Load Member

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    Thanks man, I started to do this and may do it if there is still a leak afterward all this. May try this dye next time. I just remembered that I had to replace the rear motor mounts because they were so shot that they were causing the transmission to make a growling noise. I wonder if that put a strain on that rear structure?
     
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