87 International S-1754 PTO problems

Discussion in 'Heavy Duty Diesel Truck Mechanics Forum' started by Loaderman22, Aug 12, 2019.

  1. Loaderman22

    Loaderman22 Bobtail Member

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    Hello All, Thanks for taking a minute to read this...
    I have an '87 International S-1754 dump truck with the 5 speed manual. I am new to truck PTO's, usually only run farm equipment. On the dash there are 2 pull knobs & a switch. Left knob moves & I see it move linkage on PTO. Middle switch is a cheap plastic light-up one, but light doesn't come on. Then on Right is a Chelsie Red pull knob that doesn't move no matter what I do. I start truck, then depress clutch & shift tranny to neutral. After that the red knob wont move, & the switch doesn't do anything, nothing sounds different with clutch in or out, what am I missing, & where do I start to troubleshoot?
     
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  3. Goodysnap

    Goodysnap Road Train Member

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    You have identified your PTO manual engage cable. Is it pulling the lever all the way? With the PTO or pulled the PTO/pump should be running. If it not engaged try disconnecting the cable and move the lever to engage by hand. The cable may just be out of adjustment or not pulling the lever far enough.

    Your red cable is likely for the hoist up and down and is either locked or frozen due to setting. Follow the cable to the control valve. Disconnect it at the other end and see if the valve or the cable is frozen.
     
  4. Loaderman22

    Loaderman22 Bobtail Member

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    Thank you Goody, I will get back under there Saturday & see what's up. I wasn't sure which cable did what. The one cable doesn't move at all, the other moves, but not easily.
     
    Goodysnap Thanks this.
  5. Goodysnap

    Goodysnap Road Train Member

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    The cables themselves should not be terrible expensive and use to be available at the driveline shops that sell Muncie and Chelsea PTOs. They are cut to length and universal.

    Sometimes if you disconnect the cable at the device end and pull the handle end out of the sleeve about a foot you can lube the cable and work it in to bring them back to life. If frozen solid I would just replace it.
     
  6. Loaderman22

    Loaderman22 Bobtail Member

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    Well I got back under the truck yesterday to see what was going on. Turns out we were a little off, but that is because I gave you incorrect information. What I thought was the PTO was actually a divorced hydraulic pump that's run by a small driveshaft off the PTO. I disconnected the PTO end of the red Chelsea cable, & the PTO moved easy, it was the cable that was frozen. Some penetrating oil & that freed up nicely, I did the same to the pump cable, just to avoid any issues. Now the PTO shaft turns & the bed goes up less than halfway, but I have to tweak the cable adjustment on the pump as it doesn't go down. Once I manually pull on the pump linkage, it lowers. My next question is whats the best way to fill this with oil? I think it is low & that's why it only goes up partially then gets herky-jerky & then stops. I do not see a reservoir, so I assume the fluid is stored in the other end of the piston. There is what looks like a fitting on the end of the piston casing, but I am afraid that if I open it, it will lose pressure & try to cut me in half. Also the fluid seems to be black, so I am guessing its not tranny fluid? There is black sludge on the underside of the bed, so it must leak a fair amount while driving to spray up there. I see a black stain under the pump when I parked it before I got the pump working, so it leaks when not in use. I will spray the line connections down with degreaser & see if I can pinpoint the leak. So whats the best way to fill this & what's the likely flavor of fluid?
     
  7. Goodysnap

    Goodysnap Road Train Member

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    The fluid resevoir likely surrounds the lift cylinder. Is the fill/vent plug near the top of the outer cylinder case? This area is likely not under pressure and is vented to atmosphere. The fluid is continuously supplied to the lift cylinder and returned internally.

    I'm no hydraulics master by any means and know just enough to get into trouble. Photos may confirm my suspicions. Never get under a lifted box unless its supported by other means. Chainfall or 6bys or some other form of security. Filling the cylinder to the top while extended and lowering the box to purge the excess may be the only accurate fill method other than going a little bit at a time until the box goes all the way up.

    I would recommend using AW32 hydraulic oil or similar weight.
     
    spsauerland Thanks this.
  8. spsauerland

    spsauerland Road Train Member

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    The suction line (bigger one) will go to the oil reservoir.
     
    FoolsErrand Thanks this.
  9. Loaderman22

    Loaderman22 Bobtail Member

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    When the cylinder is in the horizontal position, yes there is some sort of plug on top of the cylinder case, however, in the full upright position, this plug would be at the bottom of the piston. Both lines are the same size, & there is no reservoir. One line goes from pump to the end of the piston case by this plug, the other line goes up to the piston case by where the piston comes out. I don't think this plug has any sort of breather, but I could have missed it. & since this would be at the bottom when extended, I don't think filling it when upright is an option.
     
  10. spsauerland

    spsauerland Road Train Member

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  11. FoolsErrand

    FoolsErrand Road Train Member

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    Yeah, need pic. a tankless hoist would be an oddball. Theyre usually integrated in the cylinder base mount.
     
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