Any AZ under 26,001 lbs?

Discussion in 'Expediter and Hot Shot Trucking Forum' started by Xray4, Sep 22, 2020.

  1. Xray4

    Xray4 Light Load Member

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    Hey guys. I know there are a few AZ based hotshots here, wondering if you could chime in.

    Do you log On-Duty Driving for INTRAstate loads here?

    Disclaimer: Yes it would make sense to log all work related driving because when you do go out of state and get asked for 7 days of logs, all that off-duty personal conveyance time across AZ will look suspicious to the DOT officer in some far-away state. BUT... Arizona's definition of a CMV is over 26,001 lbs registered/gross operated in commerce. The FMCSR does not regulated what you do intrastate because their definition of CMV is 'operated in interstate commerce'. (As an aside, that is why I could run Off Duty Personal Conveyance cross three states yesterday for 13 hours, deadheaded home after delivering load. Called scale houses in CO, NM, and AZ and they all said if you have no load, skip the scale)- that's maybe for another thread..

    Anyway, Arizona has no provision in law requiring HOS management if you are intrastate, under 26,001 lbs. You are not operating a CMV. (generally, Hazmat and other things come into play, but irrelevant to my question)

    I don't think you have to log your intrastate-only loads here in AZ, the problem will be explaining that to the DOT officer reviewing your logs in some other distant state next week when you do take a longer run.

    What do you know/do?
     
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  3. longhaultransport

    longhaultransport Light Load Member

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    That 13 hour deadhead is a grey area. Some say it's legal and others disagree.

    As far as I know, if you are running D.O.T numbers you need to log, unless you stay under the air miles exemption.
     
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  4. Xray4

    Xray4 Light Load Member

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    Respectfully, I don't think the DOT numbers would make a difference. I am new to the industry however. I certainly know that there is the law, and then there is the law that is enforced. Two vastly different things oftentimes.

    But never have I ever seen a state statute or federal regulation mentioning numbers being displayed or not having affect on this
     
  5. Xray4

    Xray4 Light Load Member

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    No one else in Arizona has any input?
     
  6. brian991219

    brian991219 Road Train Member

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    You are legal to skip logging the AZ intrastate time only while in AZ. Once you reenter interstate commerce all hours worked for the past 7 days must be accounted for, just like coming back across the Canadian border and switching back to US hours of service instead of Canadian HOS. So if you alternate between the two then log it always for Federal compliance.

    Regulations Section

    Question 4: Must drivers, alternating between interstate and intrastate commerce, record their intrastate driving time on their record of duty status?

    Guidance:

    Yes, to account for all on-duty time for the prior 7 or 8 days preceding an interstate movement.


    As for your "skip the scales when empty" reply that comes from DOT officers they are flat out wrong. I don't think they understood the question.

    You can not PC across 13 states just because you are empty unless you have no idea where your next dispatch is coming from. For example, if you regularly go back to AZ then leave out with a load it could be argued that returning "home" to AZ would be in furtherance of commerce.

    Below is guidance from the FMCSA on the current personal conveyance allowances. Questions 1 & 11 speak directly to your statement about being bale to bypass weight stations while on PC time.

    Personal Conveyance: Frequently Asked Questions | FMCSA

    Question 1
    May a driver, who drops his or her last load at a receiver’s facility use personal conveyance to return to their normal work location (i.e. home or terminal?)

    No. Returning home or to the terminal from a dispatched trip is a continuation of the trip, and therefore cannot be considered personal conveyance.
    Question 11
    Can a driver be inspected during personal conveyance? If so, what is the driver’s duty status during the inspection?

    Yes. Since the driver is still subject to the FMCSRs, the driver or vehicle can be inspected. The driver’s duty status would be “on-duty, not driving.” during the inspection.
     
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  7. ZVar

    ZVar Road Train Member

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    Plus one thing to keep in mind is the load has to be intrastate, not the driver.. What that means is if you are relaying a load that crossed state lines even though you personally never leave the state, you are subject to FMCSA, and all the federal regs they make.
     
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  8. Xray4

    Xray4 Light Load Member

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    Thanks gents. I've spoken with a few DOT and Commerical vehicle enforcement officers on this, and there isnt much concensus. Some are saying what you wrote above, while others are adamant that if you don't meet the definition of commercial motor vehicle per the fmcsa, ie, not in commerce interstate (load), the HOS does not apply. The issue becomes as indicated above, the purpose of your travel home. If you are continuing the trip, or have dropped your last load and you are 'returning to your normal work location', which implies you are returning so you can continue working, you are on-duty. If you are going home and not working or planning to work when you get there, and you were done working at your last drop, you are no longer operating a cmv on duty.

    So, moral of the story, it doesn't matter what is right in court, what matters is the understanding and enforcement action of the person that has you stopped on the side of the road at the moment. Better safe than sorry, and log everything.
     
  9. longhaultransport

    longhaultransport Light Load Member

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    I do.

    The only way I wouldn't is if I was bobtail and had removable numbers. Incognito style.
     
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  10. KKonthemove

    KKonthemove Bobtail Member

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    What do you guys do when you use your truck for personal use in between trips? Must you be able to explain the mileage from the last run you made and the difference in mileages when you start your next trip?
     
  11. Xray4

    Xray4 Light Load Member

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    ELD logs everything all the time. You don't unplug it. You fall under ELD rules any time you meet the FMCSA definition of commercial motor vehicle, but need to be able to provide 7 days of records at request. I take the kids to school and everything else normally and it's logged off duty personal conveyance. @KKonthemove I'll be in Vegas tomorrow and again Wednesday, will reach out. Lots to go over in this industry..
     
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