Can't Sleep Here!

LogsRus · Dec 29, 2006

the-waco-kid said: ↑

We use the OBC at a lot of, but not all of the accounts at RIL. I have been using them on and off for the 6 years I've been here and I prefer when I am using them. They save on a lot of paperwork and I have never had a problem at a DOT check. They usually see that I am using the OBC and let me go. I only had to show 1 officer a few things on it and he was mostly just curious about how it worked.
Click to expand...

Yeah that is what I was thinking it saves you guys money in possible fines. Many companies don't want to go to it because they are so fine lined, but I think it would save them their safety rating (possible DOT audit; inner company).

If werner accident rating is not good then the HOS is not the issue! I think speeding is the issue and some drivers fatigue; driving 18 hours straight etc. HERE'S TO A SAFE AND HAPPY NEW YEAR!

retnavoff94 · Dec 29, 2006

DigiTrucker said: ↑

Setting aside the issue of parking at a Wal-Mart facility, the bigger issue is the DOT Hours of Service.

I'm 13 years in the trucking industry and the days when being behind on your log for even a few hours (much less a day or more) are gone. We, as an industry, need to realize that we are collectively headed for the day of the ON BOARD RECORDING DEVICE as mandated by the DOT. It's not just PATT and CRASH that are advocating these things and they are but a tiny part of the full equation. We have years of driver violations that are finally being enforced (and in some cases perhaps a bit too enthusiastically by some jurisdictions) while at the same time many municipalities are outright banning trucks much less overnight parking or idling within community limits.

One thing drivers attempting to comply with the myriad of malarkey regulations, stipulations, and postulations placed on our "ilk" need to remember is federal regulations will ultimately reign supreme if you have to take a stand. That is, federal regulations supercede municipal no parking ordinances. If faced with this type of situation a driver's best recourse is to have the "ducks in a row" so to speak. Make sure you're legally at or beyond your 11th or 14th hour. If not, you cannot prevail; you can only comply (referring back to the original post on this thread as the safety or dispatch team suggested rechecking his/her log and going from there). Having attained 11 or 14, then a driver needs the support of the carrier and especially the safety department. Many local police or sheriff's departments aren't familiar with federal regulations concerning trucking--they are local for a reason. Keep in mind that you can always request any officer brought on scene in such an instance to call out his watch commander or immediate superior. They do not like this request as it makes them look somewhat inept higher up their food chain. BUT!!! Make sure you're uber-polite. Losing your temper with an officer will result in more problems. State your position clearly and carry with you a copy of the FMCSR as updated as you can get. Call your carrier and get them involved immediately. Once the superior is on scene request a DOT certified state trooper. Each time they must call the next level out or face a very serious issue should you be illegally "coerced" (this is a legal term referring to forcing someone to perform an act they are legally prohibited from performing or vice-a-versa--it applies both ways) and later file a lawsuit in the situation. Also, it's a very good idea to turn on a recording device of some kind, audio tape, video tape, etc, to get your record of events--and make it KNOWN that you are recording everything you can get.

I had a similar situation arise at a receiver just after the 2004 version of the new HOS came out. Signs on the customer's receiving window indicated no parking on the facility. I mentioned their policy directly to the receiving clerk and explained that I would be out of drivable time in 3 hours and politely requested to be unloaded and released in sufficient time to move off--even explaining that I intended to do exactly as they requested. Their receiving personnel, however, saw one more instance of a "smart-assed" truck driver trying to hurry them up in unloading dry grocery product. We spent four hours--with me ON THE DOCK observing the unloading and logging line four as required. Once finished, they released me and I requested a space be made available to park, only to be told they do not allow parking by the same clerk to whom I had earlier explained my predicament regarding hours. I pulled away from the door and to the back of the lot. Eventually security came around and told me to leave or they would call the local police--which they had already done. The local officer arrived on the scene and immediately my digital voice recorder clicked on and went in my shirt pocket. I was told by the officer to move on or face arrest for "criminal trespass." I explained that I was recording and out of hours as per federal DOT hours of service--and I called my company (which at the time was having issues with the new HOS and wasn't sure about compliance so I was left flapping in the breeze by the safety department--small company and no one likes 3 A.M. wake up calls for this kind of thing). I requested the officer call out his watch commander and a DOT officer--he refused saying something along the line of we don't really need to go that far with this (sic). Then I suggested he should sign off on my log book indicating he ordered me off the property in violation of the DOT HOS. He flatly refused. But I did get him to give me his badge number, name, and post phone number. At this point I did the last and only thing I could: complied and left but logged every moment of the 45 minutes it took to get to another safe/legal parking area (read: truck stop) and turned in the log page to safety--only to be called in and told "we will not tolerate drivers falsifying their logs this way" and I needed to "fix it" or face getting a written warning. I played back the digial recording the conversation with the officer and reminded the safety manager (whom I had spoken with at the time) he did not back my compliance with the HOS and therefore I would neither falsify my log as ordered by him nor would I sign an acknowledgement of a warning for falsification when I did not falsify the record of duty status. The matter was subsequently dropped by the safety department of the company but they have been much easier to deal with in these instances since.

Another thing that correlates to this kind of situation: when you run 100% compliant, such issues as these WILL cause a late delivery but when carriers are forced into a situation where they must explain why to the customer their cargo is late and that it is due solely to the customer's behavior--and the driver has all the proof--things will change in the industry. Those who capitulate to the abuse of carriers and customers in such situations and "fix" their logs then go without the proper rest (as defined by DOT HOS) are two things: #1: part of the problem and not the solution to our industry's internal growing pains and #2 (and in no way least) a physical threat to the public's safety at large.

Time marches on, folks, and with each second ticking away at the clock we get one second closer to mandated on-board recording devices. The more WE comply to the HOS the better our position--and the less likely we are to face criminal charges in the untimely (not unlikely) event of a major crash. When carriers wake to the reality of better compliance and better utilization of available hours things will DEFINITELY change for the better in our universe.

Be safe!
Click to expand...

Superb write up!

IdahoGhost · Dec 29, 2006

Its a Federal law that i take my 10 hours off you cant move me...
Click to expand...

Absolutely. Had a similar experience at a different location and found it's against Federal law for a shipper or consignee to put you off the property IF your HOS won't allow it. You can be escorted by law enforcement, moved by wrecker or allow another driver (from the same carrier usually) to move the rig if HE has the HOS to do so. That's it.

When you run out of hours, you are not entirely prohibited from driving. You are only prohibited from driving out of the municipality you are in. This creates problems like those mentioned in this thread such as when you are told to leave private property. You can drive clear across town to find a place to park if necessary, as long as you don't leave town. Also you would still have to log hunting for a place to park on line 4, regardless of how long it takes.
Click to expand...

I've certainly never heard of this before. The DOT is very specific (section 395.1(b) and 395.13(2)(d)) about when you can drive outside of your HOS and your description doesn't match up to the regs AFAIK. It's usually chalked up to "poor HOS planning" and it's the DRIVERS fault for lack of foresight or adequate trip planning.

Of course, who hasn't been run out to a shipper or consignee by their dispatch and run out of hours on the dock...

pro1driver · Dec 29, 2006

mjstef said: ↑

But if the driver left and got in an accident he could turn around and sue you and your company and win.............................
Click to expand...

not entirely, local laws/ordinances must be observed.

let me put it to you people this way, these past 2 weeks (christmas holiday/news year holiday), we had some trucks enter the property after the 7:00PM cut-off time for recieving. they were told, by me no less, a driver myself, to get off the property because of the LOCAL LAWS and the CUSTOMERS RULES............

each driver HAD TO GET OFF THE PROPERTY...........PERIOD. i didn't care how many hours he took to drive there. i didn't care how many hours he had left to drive. i didn't care how tired he was.

THE RULES ARE THE RULES, AND THE LOCAL LAWS ARE THE LAWS.........PERIOD..............

why are you guys trying to play "CB RAMBO" here on these boards.........??

RULES AND LAWS ARE RULES AND LAWS.............PERIOD..............

some of you guys must also have a problem when a woman says "NO"........and you still proceed to touch or fondle her, causing a case/charge of rape. NO MEANS NO...........PERIOD.........what part of NO, or RULES don't you friggin' guys understand...........?????

littlebit · Dec 29, 2006

I agree with prodriver. You guys can play trucker lawyer all you want but if you are told to get off of private property you need to move or you will be moved it is as simple as that.

Brickman · Dec 29, 2006

what part of NO, or RULES don't you friggin' guys understand...........?????
Click to expand...

Shippers/receivers might be asked that about DOT laws.

I'm not trying to bust your chops but that one was too easy.

BTW I rarely park at shippers/receivers over night.

Because of shipper/receiver laws like this and horrendous traffic in some cities is why some drivers depending on their delivery times are FORCED to lie on the comic sheet.

Like I've said before trucking is not an exact science but try telling that to the gooberment.

pro1driver · Dec 29, 2006

Brickman said: ↑

Shippers/receivers might be asked that about DOT laws.
I'm not trying to bust your chops but that one was too easy.
Click to expand...

unless a shipper or reciever has anything to do with hazmat freight, most shippers/recievers couldn't give a flip about DOT regulations...........

not to bust your chops, but that was too easy as well.............

Brickman · Dec 29, 2006

pro1driver said: ↑

unless a shipper or reciever has anything to do with hazmat freight, most shippers/recievers couldn't give a flip about DOT regulations...........

not to bust your chops, but that was too easy as well.............
Click to expand...

I know they don't give a rats furry behind unless it hinders the movement of their freight. But on the same note why would they expect drivers to give a flip about their rules?

This has got to be a two way street here.

LogsRus · Dec 29, 2006

It clearly shows a reply from Federal DOT on being at the shipper/consignee out of hours. Now local laws might apply since I do have a driver currently telling customers (when needed) she can not leave and they call the law and some come back to her and appoligize. But I would not push it, because Federal law is no you SHOULD leave!

I really feel you drivers should write the Federal goverment and make a SUGGESTION (NOT DEMAND) and see if they can't force customers to let you stay "if you are held longer than was scheduled, meaning you arrived on time or before and the guy unloading took his sweet time, then you should be allowed to stay there, because that was not in the plan" Now we can't allow and extra 2 on the logs, because well you know the truckers that want to use every exscuse for them in the wrong way, will do so!
Think guys and write DOT with your suggestions!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If you don't they will never understand why? how? etc. I hope you get the point here, I agree it is rough on you all! But truckers taking advantage in the old days and new days has caused this on everyone. Kind of like the theifs causing everyone to show their id for stupid reason now adays! IT'S FACTS ! But speak your mind to the one's who can do something, they allo w you to write them and express your opinions

pro1driver · Dec 29, 2006

Brickman said: ↑

I know they don't give a rats furry behind unless it hinders the movement of their freight. But on the same note why would they expect drivers to give a flip about their rules?

This has got to be a two way street here.
Click to expand...

it IS a two way street.

THE CUSTOMER TELLS YOU WHAT TO DO.........YOU AS A "SERVICE PROVIDER" DO AS THE CUSTOMER SAYS...........SIMPLE........

you drive the "customers street" any direction the CUSTOMER DICTATES.....lest you be branded an "attiude problem driver" from your company and get fired.........

don't play "CB Rambo" with me, you'll lose............

Log in or Sign up

Forums

Find Trucking Jobs

Can't Sleep Here!

LogsRus Log it Legal

Trucking Jobs in 30 seconds

Wait, employers can't reach you!

retnavoff94 Bobtail Member

IdahoGhost Light Load Member

pro1driver Heavy Load Member

littlebit Light Load Member

Brickman Trucker Forum STAFF Staff Member

pro1driver Heavy Load Member

Brickman Trucker Forum STAFF Staff Member

LogsRus Log it Legal

pro1driver Heavy Load Member

Trucking Jobs in 30 seconds

Wait, employers can't reach you!

Log in or Sign up

Useful Searches

Find Trucking Jobs

Can't Sleep Here!

LogsRus Log it Legal

Wait, employers can't reach you!

retnavoff94 Bobtail Member

IdahoGhost Light Load Member

pro1driver Heavy Load Member

littlebit Light Load Member

Brickman Trucker Forum STAFF Staff Member

pro1driver Heavy Load Member

Brickman Trucker Forum STAFF Staff Member

LogsRus Log it Legal

pro1driver Heavy Load Member

Wait, employers can't reach you!