CAT C15 /6NZ trouble continues

Discussion in 'Heavy Duty Diesel Truck Mechanics Forum' started by truck 307, Dec 20, 2017.

  1. spsauerland

    spsauerland Road Train Member

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    Just re-read your intial post about this problem. You had a platinum overhaul when? How long after overhaul did issues start? It means you have six reman injectors. Cat is well aware of reman injector issue. Cut-out test is only as good as user doing the test. The auto four cylinder is only good if you can actually here a miss and just want to verify the cylinder. Random missing is tougher to isolate, sometimes #### near impossible with ET to find. Best is to run it on one cylinder and not use Cat's automated tests. Thing is, It has to act up to find it.I would be guessing, but you might have more than one injector going bad. The ECM may be the brain of your engine, but injectors are the heart. Extra miliseconds of delay or sticking at solenoid or poppet valve = misfire! Last platinum kit I did had a bad injector from first fire up, other ones last about 300,000 and start the random misfires. Just search cat injectors on this site. You need to get a district service manager with Cat involved in this!
     
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  3. Sandmtnpete12406

    Sandmtnpete12406 Bobtail Member

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    What is the best settings for the 6nz motor to get the best performance out of it and horsepower
     
  4. truck 307

    truck 307 Light Load Member

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    A new ECM has been recognised nas an option since this issue all mbegan , 18+ months ago. Its the excessive cost of a new ECM here in Ontario Canada that has me opting for other less costly checks and tests first, with the ECM just under $4,000 + programing, + labour to swap it out. All in im told (yesterday, when i contated both CAT as well as Peterbilt ) i will be Nearing the $5,000 mark,, which i would happily pay "if" this would have a reasonable chance of success at rectifying my issue. But , the last i checked i was wellover $23,000 into finding / fixing the problem, that was my total to date as of the end of Sept 2017.
    I was told by the shop that had my truck the past few days that a section of my speed sensor wiring that CAT replaced wasnt replaced / repaired correctly. The wiring to the ECM from my speed sensor (on tranny) was a twisted-pair. CAT (a year back) found severe burning and compromised continuity to this double wire circuit, approx a foot or so from the tranny mounted sensor. CAT (Concord Ontario Canada) cut out the damaged secttion, replacing it simply with 2 wires of the identical guage / thickness, with soldered connections. This i questioned them (CAT) about and their reply was that i shouldnt give it any concern, that the repair wasnt with twisted wire, simply two lengths of single wire . I left it be, thinking they know more than i do.
    Thereafter the truck ran better, but not nearly as should be.
    My shop (this past week, between Christmas & New Years) removed the entire wiring, from speed sensor to ECM, they built a complete new twisted-pair from the speed sensor to the ECM, in effort to completely fix that circuit. Every other circuit from the ECM (on OEM side) was checked using 3 technicians. One on either end of each circuit, another wiggling, pouring water on, and jerking each circuit, to the speed sensor, throttle position sensor, "+" as well as "-" both , entering and leaving the ECM, and over a dozen more. The left hand plug/port on the ECM feeds / connects to the CAT side ( Cam sensor / crank / boost / fuel temp / fuel PSI / air-intake / etc....) with every sensor, the engine wiring harness, the injector wiring harness, fuel psi regulator , fuel supply lines, fuel pump, fuel filter head, fuel divider valve (return side, under bunk) fuel divertor valve ( fuel supply side under bunk) all changed. The cruise switch "snap-shop" of ECM internals while stumble occuring was extended from the factory pre-set 12 seconds to 20 seconds (max perameter)with no unusual data noted nor collected / retrieved. Fuel tanks removed to check for cracked /air-intake on a pick-up tube, but all good. Exhaust system completely removed and inspected for plugging / etc., all tip-top. All batteries removed, all wiring to batteries very very thoroughly checked, all good. New batteries installed 4 weeks ago.
    Alternators, as you may/,may not know, create power in A/C voltage, and through a simple yet complicated series, convert it to D.C. electricity. Alternators can fail in this conversion, feeding a very fluctuating mixture of both A/C & D.C. voltage, causing havoc inside the ECM.
    This was tested on my electrical system, with no issues found.
    Tomorrow will be my 1st day back after the holidays, and hope the twisted pair fix did just that, fixed a long standing issue.
    Regardless, i will keep everyone posted wheen i return at days end tomorrow night / (10pm to 2am or thereabouts)
    All the best and my great thanks to all who continue to try to help me with this.
    My number (if you want to text me) 905 746 5505
    The engine was rebuilt with the wallet of the prior owner. He had a ill boy, had to sell this truck and his 6 axle flat bed with slider kit (engine has warranty still, but running out quickly)
    I bought truck last August, 2016. "FULL", not partial Platinum rebuild with oil cooler, rad, injectors, single turbo, intercooler, all internal oil lubricated parts and so on.
    CAT (so far) flipped a coin twice, on 2 seperate occasions, not knowing where /what /how, they on one occasion changed out injector #4, followed by (2 months thereafter) #6 injector.
    The reason CAT did this, was they were completely stumped. Up and down the highway for hours, i drove, the tech read the laptop, plugged into my ECM port in the cab, with a close eye on my fuel psi (which stayed strong) he shut down #1 injector. Then shut down #2 injector after turning back on #1. He went through them all, no issue identified. After numerous hours on the highway, we parked in-front of a bay back at CAT, and the tech (still plugged into my ECM port in the cab) shut down injector #1 through #5, leaving #6 to hold the engine from stalling out. Next, he shut down #2 through #6, with #1 running only. Then shut down every injector except #2, etc...etc..
    Every injector operated (of course, under controled perameters / no load /no higher coolant temps, no rising fuel temps, no high boost, etc...etc..) with no noteable results.
    I even brought to the attention of CAT a ticking /rattle sound, which CAT stoney Creek Ontario and CAT Ontario head office in Concord Ontario, both replied with what seemed like a coriographed
    (well rehearsed ) reply of; " not to worry about that sound" (yet when it got bad after pulling it out of the truck bay at CAT Concord, and they said the same to the now "hugely prevailant " rattle that im not to worry about it, i went home (90 minute + drive) pulled off the rear most valve cover first, to find CAT had left a injector set tool inside the valve train. When i returned it to them on my next visit, they were appreciative, but it was so "non chilont" , as if it was so common.
    If all my past efforts and this past weeks twisted-pair wiring replacement to the speed sensor fixes nothing, my next step will be to write to CAT head office, explaining the situation, with hopes they offer the support they loudly broadcast and advertise. If im brushed off, i will most assuredly address this within the realm of the applied warranty, as well as with assistance of friends and associates i know within both our government systaem and many who hold great upper positions at Caterpillar Ontario and CAT Canada, and keep you all posted as to the resolve.
    Any other / different ideas or if anyone has experienced such a dilemna , please reply . I will be very very appreciative of your support to help me resolve this all.
     
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  5. Cat sdp

    Cat sdp . .

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    My battles with the local cat house are legendary.....

    Good luck tomorrow....
     
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  6. truck 307

    truck 307 Light Load Member

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    Thanks. I will let you know what did or didnt occur throughout the day tomorrow.
    I will post it when I end my day,usually at or close to midnight.
    Thanks again..
     
    SAR and spsauerland Thank this.
  7. bigguns

    bigguns Road Train Member

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    I was going to say that somebody somewhere must have an ecm that you can try for test purposes. Then I went back to the start of this thread. I have a 6NZ ecm that to the best of my knowledge is just as it came from the factory. It came off an engine that had about 250,000 miles on it. It isn't in my possession but I should be able get it somehow or have it sent to you. I will send you a pm.
     
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  8. pushbroom

    pushbroom Road Train Member

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    Most dealers/ Cat shops should have a stack of test ecms for this purpose. We keep a large selection for just this exact thing.
     
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  9. spsauerland

    spsauerland Road Train Member

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    Cat ECM can be put in a 24 hr test mode. Cat/TEPS dealers will let you return them before this time expires at no cost.
     
    SAR and bigguns Thank this.
  10. truck 307

    truck 307 Light Load Member

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  11. truck 307

    truck 307 Light Load Member

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    WOW.. that would be fantastic. Nobody here has one, not even the wrecking yards, ive called many, and both CAT in Concord Ontario (Toronto area) and CAT Stoney Creek Ontario (between Niagara Falls and Toronto Ont is the best i can explain their location) dont have one either.
    Im as honest as the days are long. Whatever you can do would be appreciated.
    My number (if you prefer to text or call me) is; 905 746 5505
    My name is Dan.
    36+ years in this business, always owned Petes, 379's, CAT engines, but never have i ever been stumped like this before. Its taken its toll on me, as my wife can attest to. 55 years old but the past 18 months of this problem has me feeling like im well over 65.
    I look forward to your reply, advice or whatever you can support me with.
    Thank-You again.
     
    SAR, bigguns and Oxbow Thank this.
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