Decision,Decisions

Hey eveyone, Ole Dave here. This will be my first thread in this particular section of the TR forums. I've had my license for 2 years and I've mainly run flatbed/step-deck/dry van and belly dumps. Mostly ext hood classic trucks as I ran from the day I got out of school for an O/O locally. I'd still be there had he not sold his small fleet of 6 trucks recently.

Anyway, I've got a few buddies that are all LTL drivers and they swear by it. Initially when I obtained my CDL, my goal was to haul fuel or run LTL and now the LTL deal might just come to fruition. My scenario is, as follows:

1. Saia P&D- Staring at 23.31 an hour, overtime after 45 hours, 3000 sign on bonus 1500 of which would be given at 90 days, the remaining 1500 at 180 days. At 6 months I'd be moved up to 25.07 per hour. Running out of the Waco/Hewitt terminal behind the Kenworth dealer which is right next to the large Pilot off I-35. The TM was a very nice, welcoming guy and seemed like a straight shooter, and the out bound guy was also equally welcoming and has been with the company for 22 years, and was a driver for 15. He was the fella who conducted my driving test. The terminal isn't huge, but it's certainly not as small as some that I see. It was in pretty good shape, clean, paved lot etc. Running mainly Volvo's. Not to mention the benefits seems to be pretty good which is a valid concern for me with a family. The only downsides that I found after doing some research, were the extreme instances of drivers being coached for very minuscule things due to the driver facing cams, as well as micromanagement that I read about which was a common trend. Keep in mind, this terminal is about 27 minutes from my home (I timed it). But all in all, they're ready to hire me.

2. Estes Express- I'm not entirely sure on the pay as I haven't had my face to face interview yet, that is occurring on Wednesday, IF I don't take the Saia gig. But the TM seemed pretty motivated to get me in there after checking out my resume and speaking with me on the phone. I would ASSUME (which is never very bright) that the pay is in the same ballpark. The terminal is located a whole 5 miles from my house which is great, as well as being a bit larger than the Saia terminal and from what I've seen when passing by, they run mostly Kenworths with a few older internationals in the pack. From what I've read OT doesn't kick in until after 55 hours which is kind of sucky compared to Saia, but the savings in fuel each week would probably even that out. I could be wrong. The position would be for the "Combination city/regional" position which from what I'm reading is basically "on call" so I'd more than likely do a variety of runs, and work the dock at times. Not sure on the benefits as far as pricing etc, but from what I've read most say Estes is the better deal, however, on paper Saia seems to win the debate, but I'm still not sure. Hard to pass up a deal that close to home. I also read that Estes is currently only running forward facing cams and that they're a bit more "laid back and driver friendly" which means something to me as I'm used to running for an O/O. I ran how I saw fit, talked on the CB, changed stations on the radio, talked on the phone (headset of course) drove with one hand, drank whatever fluid I had present etc, which I see could put you in a serious bind at Saia.

Either way, this move is going to be for quite some time so I don't intend on job hopping etc. At least not until my buddy can get me a spot up at OD. Any insight on either company that reflects their policies etc from anybody that has first hand, or reputable second hand knowledge that is CURRENT or very recent? Most folks I talk to that have worked at either company, can only offer opinions from several years ago.

Thanks in advance as I've read just about all the reviews I can find comparing and debating both companies that had any credible information.

Dave

 

I appreciate the insight and opinions so quickly. I'll admit I'm torn to an extent. Saia has already cleared everything which was surprising to me. Literally filled out an application, got a call about 30 minutes later, and was told to come on in. Drove in, spoke with the TM, he sent my paperwork to corporate and I got a call the next day to head back in for my drug test and physical. I speak frequently with my former boss (he's a laid back old school driver and we became pretty good friends) and he said he didn't even receive a single call from Saia to confirm my employment etc, which I found odd, the other 6 companies I applied with all called to confirm, and with Saia being so "by the book" and "safety oriented" I would have expected them to cross their T's and dot their I's. I know there are a lot of smaller companies that DON'T check past employment because I've spoken with them, but I'd expect a company like Saia to be on top of that, if they're so hell bent on micromanagement. I mean hell, say something happens out on the road, a law suit gets filed and come to find out said driver doesn't really have the experience he/she claimed. Not only would I see that burden falling on the driver, but also the company for not enforcing their own policies etc, if you had the right ambulance chaser pursuing the case.

After returning the 3rd day in a row so they could get a copy of my new license and med card (I had to self certify my new med card) I was assured that, "all they were waiting on was my drug test results, everything else was good," and they'd probably have me start Monday or Tuesday. I could be wrong, but almost made me feel they were desperate if they didn't even take the time to check my past employment, which I didn't find out until this evening when I spoke with my former boss. When I started replaying events in my head (when I took my driving test, physical and drug test) something odd struck me while I was eating dinner earlier. I replayed the conversations with the TM and he seemed so eager to get me in there, and keep in mind I have zero LTL experience, I have a squeaky clean record and I think my driving abilities are above average as I was hauling grain from 18-24 etc and grew up driving various machines/vehicles, but still I have zero relevant experience relating to LTL, but he was so #### eager. Well, when I took my driving test, the senior driver who's now in the office, was telling me that they had to keep turning guys away during the hiring process left and right, due to them having too many tickets etc. So I don't know if I was a last resort or what, but none of that occurred to me until now. The first day I went in they were chomping at the bits to fill 2 additional spots on the roster to take them from 14 drivers to 16. Over the next couple of days it turns out I was the only guy hired from the outside, and the last driver would be going through thier driver program, (he was a dock worker.) The sign on bonus is great because I'd enjoy some extra cash, but from my experience the real good companies rarely HAVE to offer that kind of deal to get talent in the door. I could be wrong, but that's just what I've seen personally in my area.

Regardless I guess I worry that I'll pass up Saia to go with Estes, go to my interview Wednesday, and get the cold shoulder because I'm in the hunt with various applicants all for it to not pan out in my favor. You tend to get paranoid like that when you have a 19 month old, and a stay at home wife. As I like to say in that scenario, "If you're not workin, y'all are hurtin." But I also hate to get into a situation where I'm paranoid 24/7 due to being "coached" for minuscule things. Speaking of that, I would hope nothing of that nature would go in my "safety report" if I move to another company and they inquire about such matters. That sort of worries me. I'm not a "unsafe driver" by any means and I take my career seriously, but growing up driving on the farms, and in my most recent job running for the O/O, I was allowed quite a bit of freedom to do my thing, how I wanted to the T. As long the load got there and nothing was damaged etc, all was good.

That alone will probably make LTL a real culture shock as GearJammin mentioned. I'm not used to the "corporate world" at all when it comes to trucking. I'm used to getting a text with the pick up and drop off info the night before, I always woke up around the same time, drove to the truck (I parked at my buddies lot down from the house) did my pretrip, headed to the yard about 30 minutes from the house, fueled, picked up whatever I had to haul, ran to either Houston,Austin,DFW, Beaumont, West Tx, etc....dropped said load, then headed home.

Typically anywhere from 10-15 hour days but that was about it. Never spoke to my boss while on the clock unless I had a question or vice versa and did my thing. I loved it. But those days are done and I'm looking to get with an outfit where the work is lucrative, and the benefits are good and I can stay for a while. Just don't want to make the WRONG decision, only to end up job hunting again.

Dave

 

No sir he did not. About the most that was covered was the cameras, and he did it with a tone and delivery, as if he's turned off several potential new hires when mentioning said driver facing cameras. He of course did the usual "Now, they're ONLY set to come on during hard braking, turning, acceleration etc. I can't just pull up your cam and watch you, and neither can corporate." I of course found that to probably not be the whole TRUTH after reading SEVERAL reviews of folks being written up for various petty things, that couldn't of been seen unless the cam was being watched by someone for no other reason than spying.

For instance, people being called and coached for doing things like touching the radio, taking a drink which requires you to remove a hand from the wheel, listening to podcasts and being accused of talking on the phone etc. All of which had nothing to do with an event that would "set off" the camera. Could some of it be embellishment? Sure. But could it be true with the current state of the industry? Absolutely.

I even saw a post on this forum from a few months ago regarding an employee from Saia being coached, because he was only 3 and half seconds behind the car in front of him. That right there about put the nail in the coffin for me, but I don't have all of the facts for that particular scenario. I did also see a photo an employee took at one of the terminals of a company email, stating that SAME policy in bold writing, stating you're supposed to count the number of seconds when following, and even gave a descriptive tutorial of how you're supposed to measure that. A bit overkill to me. I don't know how, or if they keep record of said "safety related events" but as I wrote in my original post, I sure don't want a negative safety review to be presented to a prospective employer in the event I move on, which is really just a bunch of petty crap that was NOT actually safety related, but merely an attempt at severe micromanagement.

Either way, it wont look good to a prospective employer. I'm all for being safe, but I'm not going to keep my hands at 10 & 2, ALL day and feel like a droid cruising down the highway, in constant paranoia that I'm being watched at any moment. That's NOT why I got my CDL. Being safe, and PUSHING safety is great, and I'm all for it, but there is a fine line, and it's easily crossed with many of these "policies". But that's just my opinion.

Speaking of the warning system, I drove a 2013 10 spd Volvo for my driving test, and I took it pretty easy compared to how I used to drive my last truck which was a hopped up 99 379, and the brakes were so touchy in that Volvo, the "alert system" went off about 4 or 5 times when coming to a stop, it went off a couple times when accelerating and I'm telling you, I was being pretty #### laid back with the brakes and throttle. I can act as if there's "an egg under the throttle" as my grandpa taught me, and I can brake and come to a stop without you even noticing, as I was grilled as a youngster about being "soft" etc when braking and accelerating. But I did read posts from past employees in regards to how SENSITIVE they have those alert systems. Example, average and small potholes triggering an event, etc, etc.

Although I didn't think much of it at the time, now it's all adding up. He did mention the no phones ever rule, he told me about how pay day falls on Wednesday, and he also mentioned the "cuts". The way HE explained it was, if things got slow, they'd call you and tell you not to come in for THAT day, then the next day, the guy above you would get cut and so on, until eventually the list rolled back around to you. How true or accurate that is, is beyond me. Regarding start times, he mentioned nothing of the sort. Are you saying on MONDAY specifically you come in earlier, then the rest of the week you come in later? Or is it totally up in the air for the new guy? Also, which terminal location are you working at? Do you know anything specific about the Hewitt/Waco terminal? Not sure how long the TM has been there but it's less than 5 years, as I spoke to a previous employee who left 5 years ago and during that time "Jay" was not the TM.

Thanks for the insight Bob. The fact I'd get to try different things does in fact interest me, but I know due to my previous driving experience, if I ever was offered a CHOICE, I'd go linehaul without thinking twice. That's just more my "style" but I could do P&D and make do for the time being. But at the same time, this "on call" position leaves me a bit worried about getting enough hours each week. I'm not sure how that works out? I hate to turn down decently "regular" hours, for something that is a big IF each week. Like I said, I'm not sure how that position works out hour wise each week. I did see a lot of folks saying Estes will work you right up to 54 hours, then cut you loose to avoid OT. That's one pro at SAIA, as their OT kicks in after 45, althought I'm not sure how often you get more than 45 hours, as the TM read me the previous weeks hours for the drivers, it went something like....54,51, 48,44, 46,45 etc. So who knows.

My wife would really have a good time with that (aka she'd be pissed if that ended up being the case and I was sitting on my ### at home waiting to get called in to work.) Over the last few weeks I've been a real stickler about potential employers. I got lucky and got on with a great O/O who treated me right, right after CDL school, but I'm definitely looking for something with benefits, and when I say benefits I mean AFFORDABLE benefits, and better pay, but I won't settle for just anything. She's getting pretty irritated at me being so selective, but if someone doesn't personally drive a truck, or has never dealt with any facet of the industry, it's hard to get them to understand just how shady it can be. One wrong decision and you can land at an outfit, and you'll be kicking yourself in the ### before your first week is done. Then you're back to the drawing board all over again, which is what I'm trying to avoid.

I've had 3 jobs in the last 12 years, with the only time gap being the month I attended CDL school. I know people tend to hop around a lot in the trucking industry, but I do try my best to spend some time researching and reading up on any company I have my eye on, as to avoid getting into a real cluster that I see so many drivers dealing with. But in the end, even with the uncertainty of the "on call" spot at Estes for lack of a better term, and the fact it's not 100% in the bag yet, still makes it hard for me to pass up being so close to home. If it all worked out, that'd be great considering the commute is so short. I know SAIA is only 30 minutes away, but with the heavy construction on both the North AND South bound sides of I-35 for at least half of the commute, 30 minutes could turn into an hour or more real quick. It's all luck of the draw.

I know plenty of guys that bust their ### for their 15 everyday here in TX and drive an hour or more each way, which leaves ZERO time for any type of home life. Which also brings me to question of "when they say combination/REGIONAL at Estes, do they mean regional in the sense you could be gone all week?"

Dave