Do chains make it a wide load?

Snowwy, using your theory if I load a beam/rail trailer I am automatically overwidth.

 

with my theory????????????

 

I know I'm coming in late on this but a driver of mine was ticketed for being a couple of inches over his permitted width back in May 2012.

He was pulling a 11' - 10" wide square box and there were tie down lugs bolted the outsides of the box. He chained to the tie down lugs. Each tie down lug was 1" wider that the OS permit allowed for. PennDOT on RT41 in Avondale, PA made me order a new permit.

I plead not guilty and went to court on the grounds that, according to the FHWA CFR Title 23 Part 658.15, certain safety equipment was exempt from width measurements. I argued that securement was safety. The cop first argued that RT 41 was not part of the national network, but he lost when I submitted the map as evidence. He then argued that USDOT Federal HighWay Administration rules did not apply and he lost on that as well. Then he argued that tie down lugs, chains and binders were not safety devices and were not specifically mentioned in the reg and therefore 658.15 is not applicable.

The judge ruled in favor of the state but reduced the fine to $350 from $1066.

§658.15 Width.

(a) No State shall impose a width limitation of more or less than 102 inches, or its approximate metric equivalent, 2.6 meters (102.36 inches) on a vehicle operating on the National Network, except for the State of Hawaii, which is allowed to keep the State's 108-inch width maximum by virtue of section 416(a) of the STAA.
(b) The provisions of paragraph (a) of this section do not apply to special mobile equipment as defined in §658.5.
(c) Safety devices, as defined in §658.5 or as determined by the States as necessary for the safe and efficient operation of motor vehicles shall not be included in the calculation of width. Safety devices not specifically enumerated in §658.5 may not extend beyond 3 inches on each side of a vehicle. No device included in this subsection shall have, by its design or use, the capability to carry cargo.

 

You're not late, you're right on time since it applies to the subject at hand, thanks for the contribution. It looks like you did what you could, but in the end, the black and white is what was the deciding factor (that some of us keep trying to point out) in your case. Fortunately, the judge had the wherewithal to see that it was an excessively high penalty to pay for such a "small" oversight...... but as many of us try to point out, violations are violations, regardless of the severity. Ounce of prevention vs Pound of cure, and all that.

I can see his point. Flags, beacons, etc are warning devices, hence "safety equipment", and most of the time the permits and regulations I read they stipulate their exclusion from the measurement restrictions, and the fact that tie downs are NOT safety devices, but in fact they are load bearing devices or in this case part of the cargo, and hence, are subject to the measurement restrictions.

Thank you very much for your contribution. It's threads like this that can help drivers help each other... with well grounded, debated and authentic experience and opinions to guide each other.

 

So did any one ever figure out if the D rings, chain, and binders do need to be within the 102"?

 

Love the zombie threads.

Hi Cetane. You are looking for an exact answer in an inexact world. Not that simple I am afraid. Sadly, if you read my experience above, the only absolutely true and correct answer is "it depends". It depends on DOT cop you get, and it depends on the judge.

If there is a law that specifically mentions and exempts securement devices, chains, binders, D-links, tie down lugs from width measurements I would like to see it. Same goes for any law that specifically identifies them and says they are allowed to be 3" outside of the trailer/load.

I am the only person that I know of that has tested this in court and if my experience with PennDOT and the particular judge that ruled against me (see above) counts for anything, it seems that you can be charged and found guilty because chains, binders and tie down/lifting lugs that are bolted to the side of the cargo are not safety devices. Is a D ring a safety device? Your guess is as good as mine but by all means I encourage you to test the boundaries and grey areas of the law and fight all charges in court. Only you can decide if it's worth it. If you win, please tell us about it so I can use the ruling as evidence the next time I run into an overzealous pig of a DOT cop.

In my case, all though the cop never said so, I believe he charged our driver because the tie down lugs were bolted to the side of the box and therefore the lugs, in his determination, were part of the cargo. If the driver had used a D rings/clevis' instead, the DOT cop may have let it slide.

Any normal and reasonable cop will let securement that exceeds 102" slide. However there are always the dickheads. We were never charged prior to May 2012 and have not been charged since. No reasonable business person can afford to live in fear of the dickheads and get a permit for every piece of cargo that is 102" wide so the hell with it. If that one cops fines me $1066 again I will fight it again. Maybe next time I will get a judge that some common sense and he'll rule in favor of the worker instead of the cop he sees in court every week.

 

Thats what you get when you use the forum search. This thread was exactly the question I was going to start a new thread, so land of the walking dead it is. I have a trailer that I just bought that is 102" wide and the outer channel iron web is to the inside. So I have a flat outside rail I need to weld D rings to the out side. I will run it D rings, and chains outside the 102" rails and see what happens. Thanks man.

 

I know in lousy Ana we were running plate that was exactly 12 foot wide and were using our blanket permits. Had no problems at the scales, he asked us how wide, we tell him 12 feet. On about the fifth or sixth round a DOT bear was inside and came out with a tape. Measured and then told us we were over 12 feet and was not going to cite us but we had to order new permits. 12'3". To account for the chains. And get an escort. Told him I thought securement devices were exempt, he said "not in Louisiana". Since we always run od in Louisiana and he wasn't writing a citation I wasn't going to argue. The best we could have hoped for was to win in court. That would cost at least $1000 just to miss a day. I ain't got time for that. Now we don't even question them. We add 3" to measurements on our permits. We have blanket permits but they are only good for 12' in Louisiana. Don't know if he would have let us off with straps or not. And that was the only time I have been measured in Louisiana. Luckily we only had a couple more rounds of this because our bid didn't include the $400 escort to get across Louisiana. We also haul a lot of 12'2" wide plate and just go ahead and make permit 12'5".

 

I see a ticket in your future LOL. Good luck anyway brother. I am rooting for you.

 

I would have investigated this with the state DOT office. It could have just been an officer that didn't understand the rules. I have always heard that securement device are not included in the width.