Do NOT stop for protesters

Discussion in 'Questions From New Drivers' started by unloader, Apr 20, 2021.

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  1. Rubber duck kw

    Rubber duck kw Road Train Member

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    They want to remove that. Which will result in police officers watching you get stabbed because if they try to stop they could be sued. They should all take a month vacation and see what people think after that.
     
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  3. gentleroger

    gentleroger Road Train Member

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    You have two different points.

    The first is being treated differently under the law. There is a difference between manslaughter homicide, and murder. There is also a difference between a common citizen lying under oath/filling a false report and a police officer filing a false report or lying under oath.



    These officers submitted tickets without pulling the offender over. There is zero chance of the officers getting caught doing this, except their own gross stupidity. Their gross stupidity calls into question every legitimate citation they issued. It undermines the entire system.

    I would also argue that there is a difference between Paul R Allen and Roy Brown. One robbed a bank of $100 and one orchestrated a $2,000,000,000 fraud. One got 40 months and one got 15 years - which one got which?

    The other point is about union protection. In the last 20 years teachers unions have been under continual fire for protecting "bad teachers", pensions, and a host of other issues. Scott Walker stripped the power from all government institutions in WI, except the police unions. He fought tooth and nail against efforts to make police accountable for their actions.

    If NOBODY is anything more than a citizen, then why is police testimony considered more reliable than a defendant's testimony? Why can a defendant be held for more than a year with no evidence, then be forced to pay for his confinement after the charges are dismissed for lack of evidence? Why can police seize money/assets in absence of criminal charges? Why can convicted criminals be paid less than minimum wage but be charged more than the poverty level in fees?
     
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  4. Rubber duck kw

    Rubber duck kw Road Train Member

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    You can not have your cake and eat it too. Why are police officers filing tickets for people they never even pulled over? Are they getting a "sales commission?" Do they actually have a quota, the butt of 80% of bad cop jokes?
    Differences in sentences for small theft crime and big theft crime. Well I'm assuming the big number crime was through some Ponzi scheme or some such and the 100 dollar theft was likely at the end of a gun.
    So you and I agree the police unions need to be done with.
    You tell me why you consider police officers testimony more reliable than a defendants. How are people being held for a year with no evidence against them, how are they held for a week without evidence against them? I'd guess that has more to do with DAs and prosecutors office, hey we happen to have a former AG who's famous for doing that exact thing now VP, and she's supposedly on your side of the issue. Why should the taxpayer be forced to pay for somebody's incarceration? I personally say jail and prisons need to go away, if you didn't commit a grevious enough crime to be put to death you don't need to be a drain on tax payers either. Fines for crimes needs to be done with, bring back physical punishment, the stocks where people throw rotten vegetables at you and public whippings. You don't show up for your court date, a bounty payable dead or alive will fix that admission of guilt.
    Civil asset forfeiture should never have been deemed constitutional, that goes for not paying your taxes too.
    Do you mean released convicts or those who are still in prison and deciding if they want to straighten out or not?
    This brings us back to the relagation to the dust bin of history a lot of laws and regulations and where I'd like to see that go most people, on both sides, won't like.
     
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  5. SoulScream84

    SoulScream84 Road Train Member

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    Just waiting for this thread to be sent to politics at this point. Nothing to do with driver safety.
     
  6. Rubber duck kw

    Rubber duck kw Road Train Member

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    Look at the title, there is no way it doesn't take this turn. They need to let it go, it hasn't gotten ugly or "offensive" yet.
     
  7. gentleroger

    gentleroger Road Train Member

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    There is a difference between leaning against a rock which starts rolling down hill and decimates a town and setting a demolition charge that destroys a town.

    You say that Civil Asset forfeiture should never have been deemed constitutional, but seem indifferent to the repercussions that it's caused - particularly when there is no evidence to support the forfeiture? Or you seem surprised that people are willing to riot when Officers like Ronald Watts and his subordinates and superiors face no repercussions for violating the law. It's not that I consider that a police officer's testimony more truthful, it's what the courts decide is more truthful. The sheer volume of false testimony by police officers in the last decade should scare the panties off of the most manly of men.

    You ask how people are being held for more than a week without evidence. I can't understand it, but it happens. While folks like Dave Kastor get released on bail and have sex with his victims while on bail.
    New Orleans Man Faces 20 Years To Life For Candy Bar Theft
    https://www.exonerationproject.org/app/uploads/2017/09/The-Corruption-of-Ronald-Watts-Timeline.pdf

    I'm a liberal. There's no doubt about it. To say that Biden/Harris represent my views is disingenuous at best. Give me a choice between Mitt Romney and Biden and I've voting for Ol' Mittens as he is by far the more liberal of the two.

    If I were to be given the opportunity to punch in the mouth every DA who had violated their oath of office and/or the public interest I would have to seriously consider the ability of my hands to be able to do anything afterwards. 40 months for scamming $2,000,000 or 15 years for robbing a bank of $100? Particularly when 1/2 of that $2 Billion will be made whole by the taxpayers?

    Compare what Walmart prosecutes every year for shoplifting to what they defend in wage theft. How many of Walmart's managers get charged with theft? How about Pizza Hut? Or maybe Papa Johns? For that matter how many of Roundy's warehouse workers are classified as independent contractors and are responsible for self employment taxes and workers comp?

    What does Smithfield subsidiaries make off of illegal immigrants? What is the risk of jail time for Smithfield managers and/or executives for employing illegals compared to what they profit off of employing illegals?

    Why should the individual be responsible for paying for false imprismonement? Imagine a man who is arrested for Crime X, and is posted bail for $100,000. The man cannot afford $100,000 bail as the state has sized all of his assets. A year later the man is released due to lack of evidence. The state is still holding his assests so the man has no money. He cannot get a job as there are a myriad of web articles listing his charges, but none listing the dismal of charges. Then the man gets a bill for $5,000 for his incarceration. He can't pay the bill because he can't get a real job due to his "criminal record", which doesn't really exist. Then he gets pulled over for "speeding" - 5 mph over. Because he owes court fees, there is a warrant out for his arrest. The man then faces a couple years in jail. All over an arrest that couldn't be proven and a speeding ticket. Meanwhile Bernie Maddoff is spiking our economy.

    If the imprisonment is justified, why should the prisoner perform labor that leaves him in debt?
     
  8. Rubber duck kw

    Rubber duck kw Road Train Member

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    We're not talking rocks, avalanches, or explosives. You want equality, that's well and fine.
    The false testimony thing is perjury, there are already perjury laws on the books, why are judges and district attorneys not filing perjury charges, hell why aren't the people who are being defamed in court not suing the officers personally?
    Civil asset forfeiture should not have been done and should be immediately ended, nothing we can do about what was done in the past. That whole can't change history thing holds a little water, it wasn't right, but it can't be undone.
    There's a real easy way fix, I assume you're talking about a rapist in the Dave Kastor case, also saves the expense of a trial and an execution.
    Again, was the 100 dollars stolen at gun point? Or like one of your other stories one in a string of offenses?
    I've not heard of any wage theft at Walmart, or anywhere else really. Is that something that actually happens or are you calling it theft because they don't pay their workers what you think they should? Explain what exactly you're talking about there to me.
    False imprisonment, again the person held in jail for a ridiculous amount of time while they hunt for evidence of a crime against them should suing the pants off the officers, the prosecutors, everybody involved in holding them. I'm all for making that a thing.
    If you're sent to prison, no doubt at all you did it. You should not leave with any debts, all work you perform while there should be purely voluntary, voluntary as in not forced to do it and also not paid. There should also be no such thing as a plea deal. There should be no such thing as getting out early because you acted half civilized while there. That's all of course if the prison system is really necessary, which I'd say isn't.
    Why aren't you a lawyer with your knowledge of what's going on to who and where? I don't mean that as an insult either.
    I'm not saying there aren't some issues with how some of the legal system works. I'm also not willing to immediately cry murder when somebody dies of an overdose in police custody. Or when a young girl is shot by cops because she's trying to stab somebody. Or when a gun is mistakenly pulled instead of a taser, on somebody who is wanted on a warrant for illegal gun possession. All based on the color of the "victim." Why do you think we rarely see any outrage when white people get shot by cops? It's not because it never happens.
     
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  9. gentleroger

    gentleroger Road Train Member

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    Last things first - I'm not a lawyer because I couldn't face years of doc review. I spent a Christmas break comparing two versions of a contract, letter by letter, 3 times over. Very little of practicing law is Perry Mason or John Grisman, most of it is grinding out like a Swift driver. Shortly thereafter I was doing a proof read of a classmates senior thesis and found my grandfather's name in the foot notes. With very little digging I found that my grandfather had - entirely legally but absolutely immorally - stolen property from hundreds of black property owners. As I followed the thread I found that my own father defended the bank who paid for my college education against a discrimination lawsuit - he had the bank expand lending to asians to avoid having to lend to blacks. My 'discovery' led to several uncomfortable discussions, including learning that my aunt was effectively scamming the federal government out of HUD funds and taxes. I saw years of selling my soul to gain financial freedom and transitioned to education. A few years of having my success being defined by how happy the parents of a 14 year old girl was (irrespective of how happy the girl was) led me to look for something differnt. Truck driving was about as different as I could get, and a could place to bank some cash as I figured out what I wanted to do next. I discovered that I liked being virtually independent (despite working for mega carrier) and that "advancing" my career would end up with the same retirement date, albeit with more stress. So I continue to drive a truck.

    Second to last - "you don't see outrage over cops shooting a white guy". Look at how many mass murders that are white that cops are able to take into custody compared to how many "you have a warrant for parking tickets" blacks that get shot. Then look at the number of black people shot by cops as a percent of the black population and do the same for white people. Then look at the number of black people arrested and arraigned compared to the number of black people arrested to arraigned. Take that a step further and compare the results of arraignment to ultimate case resolution. There is a HUGE disparity between races. A lot of that comes down to the difference between being represented by a Public Defender and your own consul. I have a friend who was an ADA for NW WI and an "acquaintance" (I stuck my dick in her, at the time it was awesome, but in retrospect it wasn't great) who is a public defender in Peoria, IL. The stories that they have told made me lose faith in our criminal justice system. The amount of things "there isn't outrage over" would make you cry. Liz defended a woman who had a 3rd grade education (at best) from welfare fraud - I don't remember the exact details but the government screwed up as was paying her twice what SSI disability should have paid. This went on for over a decade before the government found THEIR mistake. They arrested the woman and held her in jail, despite clear evidence that the woman had done nothing wrong. It took two years for Liz to resolve the case. In a post above I linked a video to Lehto's Law where a man was held for more than a year with no evidence and then sent a bill for his incarceration. The Madison's of Madison Department Stores purposefully defunded their employee's pension funds, ran up huge debts on the company's accounts, then declared bankruptcy for the company all the while maintaining homes, country club membership, and private school tuition meanwhile the "3 strikes law" was being implemented and guys being randomly searched are going away for 20 years because of a blunt. John Prince helped Enron conceal their shenanigans, but transferred all his assets to his wife Eilean with the help of Mary Madigan (wife of the Madigan's Department store heir, my god mother, may the racist ##### rot in hell when she dies). John avoided jail time, but let's turn our attention to cousin David Hartigan. Cousin David was a lynch pin in a HUGE graft/kickback scheme. Cousin David plead guilty to defrauding the government and bribery. He was sentenced to 10 years, served 1, and now works as a consultant for John Prince's accounting firm. I know the fix is in.

    Beyond that arguing "look at how many white guys cops shoot without justification" is not a good argument. The number of police shootings and use of force is ridiculous, regardless of race. But people of color bear the burden of the broken police system at a disproportionate rate. The same can be said of prison populations.

    Now let's turn to prisons - where those with competent lawyers serve a bit of time and those without serve excessive time. I'll let Jon Oliver save me some typing



     
  10. gentleroger

    gentleroger Road Train Member

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    Finally let's turn to the number of people who commit crimes in order to gain housing of health care. The shear fact that I can type that sentence into google and have it produce results in mind boggling to me. Homeless Patients Get Novel Treatment From Chicago Hospitals: Housing
    https://www.jstor.org/stable/3096817?seq=1
    The fact that it has been a known fact since the 80's is beyond the pale.

    It is without a doubt that police face a hard job. The recent Ohio shooting is a prime example - pretty easy to Monday morning QB, but hard in the moment. Police are under assault, there's no doubt about it. But they're not under assault by wack job liberals looking to defund them. They're under assault by mainstream politicians who cut funding for schools and public health by $1 while increasing police budgets by $.20. When you call 911 and say your house is on fire, the fire department shows up. Cops will as well, but they're running traffic control and supporting the fire department - not unloading their pistols into your house.

    If you haven't heard of wage theft at Walmart - give it a google. Once you've identified the stores engaged in stealing money from it's workers, see how many shoplifting prosecutions the store has engaged in (f*** you cousin Sharon and a quadruple f*** you to your husband Steve). Wage theft is the largest form of theft in the US for the last 2 decades, but rarely results in jail time. Meanwhile guys selling loosey cigs in NYC are doing 6 months.

    Finally let's turn to false imprisonment - specifically Ronald Watts. Watts enticed false testimony, planted evidence, and lied under oath. Two officers who filed Internal Affairs reports were ostracized out of the force, meanwhile more than a dozen officers and at least 3 ADAs who knew what was going kept their jobs. 5 years after Ronald Watts was convicted, the civilian revue board has finally submitted a report on Watts' subordinates. To my knowledge, no investigation has been started on the ADAs who convicted more than 100 individuals based on false reports.

    There is no doubt in my mind that any reasonable person would look at the evidence in the Derrick Chauvin Case and want him punished. The fact that there are people defending kneeling on a handcuffed man's neck for 9 minutes blows my mind. Whats the worst that could happen if a man with his hand's cuffed behind his back stands up? Then to lie on the police reports - how stupid can you get?

    If people really want to end the riots then they need to address qualified immunity - when an officer fails to follow departmental policy they need to face repercussions. When an officer is caught lying the officer needs to go to jail. The reason there have been riots is that police officers have been allowed to get away with murder for decades. When people do not believe that the power structures provide justice, violence occurs.
     
  11. Rubber duck kw

    Rubber duck kw Road Train Member

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    I didn't say anything about "unjustified" shootings of whites by cops. Every shooting of a minority by a cop is called unjust, even when there is video of the person who gets shot going after another person with a knife, leads people to call bs on all of them.
    All I'll say on Floyd, even the medical examiner wouldn't say without a doubt his death was caused by the officer kneeling on his neck and not the fentynal and meth, should've been the end of it right there. Was it unnecessary yes, can you say it was murder, not according to the medical evidence. Now we'll see more of that happening because people will believe they'll get away with it.
    Yes, officers caught lying, under oath or in official reports which I figure should be counted as under oath, they should be charged with perjury.
     
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